[Wayne]

When I flush and change the coolant (Toyota red), is radiator flush additive recommended..... if so, what's recommended, and if not, why?

Wayne S

[Beowulf]

Wayne,
I recommend flushing with tap water. Flush the block and open the heater valve to flush the heater core. Remember that you also have a rear heater so it takes time to flush both cores. Flushing the engine block is important; there is a brass plug accessible through the left front wheel well. I use the Prestone flush kit. I don't recommend using additives.

When filling, use a good quality coolant and distilled water. You can get the distilled water at the grocery store in gallon jugs. Don't forget to clean out the overflow bottle.

If you're not familiar with the procedure then search the archives for several good posts with all the details. "flush" plus "brass" plus "coolant" will probably get you results (adv search, 365 days, 80/100 section) Or maybe "brass" plus "block"

-B-

[Wayne]

Thanks Beowulf, for the feedback..... I've thought about the use of commercial coolant system flushing agents, if they are necessary, safe, etc. ??? I even heard of some guy using muratic acid as a flushing agent in a coolant system........ :-[

Wayne S "Merry Christmas"

[cruiserdan]

I agree with the Wulf 100 percent.

Do not use cleaning agents. Flush the cooling system with fresh water only. In addition, PLEASE listen to his recommendation regarding distilled water. Tap water contains minerals and other "hitch-hikers" that will leave deposits in the cooling system.

I just removed my original water pump after 116,000 miles as a result of an unrelated failure. The pump was absolutely dry and totaly free of deposits of any kind. My cooling system has seen nothing but OEM antifreeze and distilled water since new.

D-

[kenton]

I, um, I have a FRIEND, who recently did a coolant R&R. It went something like this: opened the petcock under the radiator. Out drained quite a bit of brownish-looking stuff. Gave up on finding the block plug after an hour or so, so just removed the lower rad hose after a fair amount of grunting (one of the aftermarket repair manuals said so): a tablespoon or two more came out. Refilled with about 5 quarts of the cheapie Autozone yellow coolant, and about 4 quarts of water from the garden hose.
I guess that means I-- my friend-- has about 7 quarts of the old brown stuff, and 9 quarts of new, wrong stuff, in there?
Hmmm, well now that I've read about the pinky-sized heater hose (PHH ) in the armpit of the engine, I guess I won't feel so bad draining-- helping my friend drain-- this stuff back out of there in a little while.

Kenton

[Beowulf]

Kenton,
Your friend would be well advised to do a good heater core and block flush in the near future. The FZJ80 cooling system is one of the areas where good maintenance pays off in the long run. An annual flush and fill is strongly recommended even though that is more than the factory recommends. There have been far too many people that have posted their horror stories due to cooling system problems.

The only "preventative" that the experts (Christo, Robbie, C-Dan, et al.) have offered the 80 community is to be anal regarding the cooling system.

Since this is an important maintenance item and we haven't covered the details since our arrival on ih8mud, I am copying the thread that I remember from the SOR archives into this thread. The subject line in this thread is appropriate so here goes:

==================================
Copied & edited from SOR Rad Flush Procedure
==================================


Jim,
Since I did this last weekend here are a few tips. If you're using the Prestone kit as someone else suggested, you can install it on the hose going into the heater valve. The hose has a 90 degree bend so placement is critical. You may need about 2" of a flexible 5/8" heater hose that goes between the heater valve and the garden hose connection. You'll also need 2 or 3 gallons of distilled water (under $1 ea at the grocery store.) Get 2 gallons of Toyota coolant (the red stuff.)

After you install the kit, drain the engine block and the radiator. There is a 14mm brass plug on the left side of the engine block. You can get to it through the left front wheelwell. Use about 2' of extension to get to the plug (torque at 22ft/lbs). The radiator drain c0ck can be accessed after you remove the front skid plate (4 bolts.) If you remove the radiator cap the coolant will spray everywhere. If you leave it on the coolant will drain slowly and can be drained into a bucket. I would remove the block plug first, let it drain, then remove the radiator drain plug (white).

Install the block plug and follow the directions on the Prestone flush kit. Basically, you will hook up the garden hose and get it flowing. When the water starts coming out the top of the radiator, start the engine. Push the heater control to full hot and let the engine run about 5 minutes with the water flowing. Eventually it will run clear. Turn off the engine and let the radiator drain. Remove the block plug again and let the water drain. Put the cap on the Prestone fitting. Remove the overflow bottle and empty it because it will be full of old coolant and tap water.

Reinstall the block plug and the radiator plug. Pour 1 gallon of anti-freeze in the radiator. Pour 1 gal of distilled water in the radiator. Pour 1/2 of the 2nd coolant jug into the empty water jug. Use the remaining distilled water to mix up a 50/50 mixture of coolant and distilled water. Fill the radiator with the 50/50. Check for leaks. Fill the overflow bottle with 50/50. Loosely install the radiator cap and start the engine, again checking for leaks. Let the engine run for a few minutes and top up the radiator as necessary with the 50/50.

If you're in to preemptive maintenance like I am, this would be a good time to put in a new thermostat and gasket (when the coolant is drained of course.) Check all hoses when it is drained and replace as necessary. You will probably get coolant sprayed on the engine so be prepared to clean the engine with Simple Green or similar.

Antifreeze is toxic to dogs so clean up any spills. Some communities approve flushing the old coolant down the toilet for disposal. If you're concerned then check it out first, otherwise just flush the old stuff and you're done.
-B-


Jim,
After the radiator is drained you can look down the filler and see the top portion of your radiator tubes. Mine looked good as new but if you are seeing rust, or a silvery paste-like substance then you should plan on getting the radiator professionally cleaned/rodded. It's been reported that mixing coolant brands has been causing some radiator failures in the 80 series. The main thing is to get a good flush and remove all of the old coolant (remember the heater valve!) before filling it with new.

Keep us posted on the job and good luck.
-B-


Jim,
FSM calls for a "good brand" of coolant. You will be OK with the something like Prestone or whatever is considered a good brand in the UK. There is a very strong link between mixing red & green and clogged radiators; not just in cruisers. There is also strong evidence of problems caused by the so-called "long life" coolants. These work OK in cars that were designed for the long-life stuff, but not so well in those that were not designed for it.

You will be OK since you did a good flush of the old coolant. The concensus seems to be that the coolant in our cruisers should be changed every 2 yrs max. This is shorter than Toyota's recommendation, but now that you've done it you can see that it's not a big deal and well worth the peace of mind.

How did your radiator look when you checked it?
-B-


Beowulf,
Thanks for the detailed post! Did the flush and fill this weekend (first time on any vehicle I've had). All went good with your instructions. It took me about 3-1/2 hours, of which most of the time was spent waiting for everything to drain. I did as suggested and left the radiator cap on so things would drain in a slow controlled way to keep the mess down. It would have gone much quicker to just open things up and let it go, but the mess would have been much more. I would say knowing how things work now, and having one under my belt this would take less than 2 hours next time, easy. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for the good info. to all who had input.
Todd / '95 FZJ80


Beowulf
I attepted the job this weekend, but I could not located the block plug. Could you please explain US / DS? (I got that DS is "Drivers Side") Do you have to take the wheel off to access the plug?
Thanks


stacker,
I believe the plug is located near the oil filter towards the rear of the engine. You should be able to see it from underneath. I actually removed mine, stuck a pipe in there and connected that to my plugin heater.
Yomama

For the block drain bolt, remove your front DS tire, then pry off the last little mud skirt thing on the right, and look straight ahead. You'll see a bolt in the block that doesn't connect to anything. I think its 12 or 14 mm. Just get about 5 ratchet extension and pull that thing out. One word of caution, make sure you keep the radiator cap on while doing this or it will shoot out pretty fast. Takes longer to drain with the cap on, but its a lot less messy.
HTH
aaron


Stacker,
"There is a 14mm brass plug on the US DS of the engine block. You can get to it through the DS front wheelwell. Use about 2' of extension to get to the plug (torque at 22ft/lbs)."

1. It's 14mm
2. US DS = US Driver Side = Left Side = Port = same side as the oil filter.
3. I didn't have to remove the tire but mine is lifted. Pull back the flap, shine a light in there, and you'll see the brass plug.
4. Use a 14mm socket with a long extension, about 2ft should do it.
5. When reinstalling, torque to 22ft/lbs.

-B-

======================== End of edited SOR Copy =================



-B-

[landtoy80]

I take it that cdan kant ship the oem coolant??
I was going to ask about toyota injector cleaner but -b- said cdan stocks 44k, its good but I want the OEM injector cleaner as I am a OEM dude.

[TomH]

Hey B

Thanks for taking the time to put all this together, it's excellent info. I picked up two gallons of Toyota red yesterday and did a search to find the recommended flush procedure. I was a little surprised to see you just went over it last week. I guess I just can't keep up with this forum - too much information on a daily basis.

Thanks again.

Tom

[Outback]

Okay, time for me to do this.....

Do I use RED coolant in my '93 FZJ80 w 1FZE?

What kind of coolant should I use in the 3FE in our '88 FJ62? The regular GREEN stuff?

It's time for some maintenance on all our 'Cruisers.

Jody.

[Beowulf]

Jody,
Use a good quality anti-freeze. Prestone green or Toyota Red or other "name" brands. Avoid the extended life variants. Frequent flushes appear to be more important than red vs green.
-B-

[RavenTai]

[quote author=Beowulf link=board=2;threadid=9195;start=msg80341#msg80341 date=1072372530]

There is also strong evidence of problems caused by the so-called "long life" coolants. These work OK in cars that were designed for the long-life stuff, but not so well in those that were not designed for it. [/quote]



...deleted**...

so witch is Toyota Red: Ethylene or Propylene? Or is it something else? I would hate to have to get my coolant from the dealer :slap:


**edit because I got EG & PG mixed up :slap: now Beowolfs statment makes sense

[cruiserdan]

Toyota red is an Ethylene Glycol coolant. It has a slightly different composition than greens. It is red to make it easily identifiable.

[RavenTai]

Thanks Cdan

[Pitbull]

What's the difference? Maybe a lower silicant level? So it does not ruin the seals on the water pump?? I'm sure I will have problems in the future because I have done everything wrong to mine while trying to do the "best" for my LC. I've used the Polpylene mixed with the ethylene, (forgot to turn on the heater when I flushed) then I later flushed it and went with the regular ethylene (green stuff) and then I added some stop leak after I changed the PHH because if it would sit for a couple of days I would get a drip the size of a quarter. I'm going to reflush it in the spring even though it will only have around 8K miles on the last change to get the barr's stop leak out and start anew. But I've been screwing this up for over 100K miles so the LC has been pretty foregiving of my ignorance. Hope my luck holds. I do have to admit that I flush and fill every 20-25K miles, even though it might not be the right stuff.

[Wayne]

I did the coolant system flush this afternoon as per Beowulf"s instructions (with a devation) and everything went . The only change I made was the method used to flush the system. I didn't have a Prestone kit :slap:, so, I drained the radiator and retightened the drain plug. I opened the heater control valve. Then I took the top radiator hose off at the radiator (using a make shift hose extension I was able to drain the hot coolant into a five gallon bucket, while replenishing it with fresh tap water from a water hose at the radiator fill spout). I filled the radiator back up with tap water. Then I had an assistant start the engine a let it idle. It took a little time to get things cooking, but once the thermostat opened it was easy going. CAUTION: The flushing coolant is very hot. Wear gloves while handling the make shift drain hose and use hose that can handle the temperature (195 F or so). My assistant and I continued to fill and flush until clear water ran in the bucket. I then shut the engine off, put the top radiator hose back on, then drained the radiator and block. I tighten the radiator drain plug and reinstall the engine drain plug. I drained the overflow bottle and cleaned it out. At this point I followed the fill instruction Beowulf gave on this thread .

Wayne S

[Rookie2]

Okay guys. I was going to knock this out this weekend and have been out in the garage identifying parts (Chilton's doesn't cover this to good, FSM on the way). I want to make sure I'm hooking the prestone kit Tee up in the right spot. Based on the previous post, cut hose going into the heater valve and install Tee. Confirmation: heater valve is located on the top of the fire wall, directly behind the engine, and I need to tap into the hose on the drives side of this heater valve right?? The hose in guestion comes off heater valve (if I've identified correctly) approx. 4 inches and 90's down a couple of inches and ties into a hard line that continues down behind the engine. From there, just follow directions.

Please let me know if I'm missing something here.

Thanks,
Rookie2

[ppc]

I would not cut into that hose but remove it and use some much longer straight pieces of regular 5/8" heater hose. Flush the system and replace the factory hose. This hose if one of three preformed hoses in the heater loop and a little costly. It also is not really long enought to splice into and fairly easily removed. The alternative is to remove the "U" after the heater valve and attach hoses there. I wouldn't leave the flushing tee in the system on a permanent basis.

[scottm]

[quote author=raventai link=board=2;threadid=9195;start=msg82936#msg82936 date=1072924872]so witch is Toyota Red: Ethylene or Propylene? Or is it something else? I would hate to have to get my coolant from the dealer[/quote]
Mine was dealer serviced with green b4 I bought it, apparently dealers don't always use toyota coolant. I put in Prestone Orange every year.

[Rookie2]

Phil,

Thanks for the tip, makes good since.

Rookie2

[Pitbull]

[quote author=Rookie2 link=board=2;threadid=9195;start=msg88035#msg88035 date=1073701204]
Okay guys. I was going to knock this out this weekend and have been out in the garage identifying parts (Chilton's doesn't cover this to good, FSM on the way). I want to make sure I'm hooking the prestone kit Tee up in the right spot. Based on the previous post, cut hose going into the heater valve and install Tee. Confirmation: heater valve is located on the top of the fire wall, directly behind the engine, and I need to tap into the hose on the drives side of this heater valve right?? The hose in guestion comes off heater valve (if I've identified correctly) approx. 4 inches and 90's down a couple of inches and ties into a hard line that continues down behind the engine. From there, just follow directions.

Please let me know if I'm missing something here.

Thanks,
Rookie2

[/quote]

Take it to a garage that has a flush machine and have them do it. You can change the fluid this way every year for around $50 Sorry I'm lazy and hate to deal with old antifreeze disposal

[Rookie2]

Aww come on Pitbull. You know "take it to a garage" and "I'm to lazy" will get you linched on this site. It was'nt that bad. I just dumped the fluid (the part I was able to catch) down the sewer. The rest kind of ended up in the street. Told the neighbor not to let her dog drink out of the red puddles. Interesting side note: She said when you take a dog into the vet for radiator fluid poisoning, they hook it up to an I.V. of vodker. Something about the vodker doesn't let the antifreezer crystalize to the kidneys. I'd say that'd be one fawked up dog.

Thanks for the help guys, went great.
Rookie2

[Pitbull]

[quote author=Rookie2 link=board=2;threadid=9195;start=msg88412#msg88412 date=1073776557]

I just dumped the fluid (the part I was able to catch) down the sewer. The rest kind of ended up in the street. Told the neighbor not to let her dog drink out of the red puddles. Interesting side note: She said when you take a dog into the vet for radiator fluid poisoning, they hook it up to an I.V. of vodker. Something about the vodker doesn't let the antifreezer crystalize to the kidneys. I'd say that'd be one fawked up dog.

[/quote]

Bad boy, bad boy, what you goin do, what you goin do when they come for you :slap:

[Beowulf]

Cooling Sytem Data Point Follows:

First known flush and fill w/Prestone green........8/2/01...........97k miles
Flush and fill w/Toyo red.....................................10/20/02........15k
Flush and fill w/Toyo red.....................................1/10/04..........17k (Now w/130k miles)

At the flush & fill on 8/2/01 the coolant was yucky looking. Brownish with some sediment but not a lot. The sediment had discolored the bottom of the white plastic overflow bottle. The PO gave me all service receipts and it appears this was the first cooling system service. Tap water was used instead of distilled water and Prestone green was the coolant used. Top row of radiator shows no sign of gray sludge.

At the flush & fill on 10/20/02, there was some more sediment but not a lot. Old "green" coolant looked better than the 8/2/01 flush but still was yucky looking. Top row of radiator shows no sign of gray sludge. Filled with 50/50 Toyo red and distilled water.

At the flush & fill on 1/10/04 (today), there was no sediment in the overflow bottle. The coolant looked like cherry koolaid; it looked very, very good. Top row of radiator shows no sign of gray sludge. Filled with 50/50 Toyo red and distilled water.

-B-

[IdahoDoug]

Beo,

Maybe the top row is clean because our good friend Mr. Gravity dictates that the sludge settle in the bottom of the rad. Heh - just trying to make you paranoid.

On a more serious note, did you flush the block by removing its drain? If so, did you get any of those little grey/black fine flakes that smear like grey clay between your fingers? Each time I've done this, I get some of them running down the drive. I've used green Prestone twice, then the Orange DexCool, currently in the system and 50% refreshed this year due to messing with my block heater. I flush/fill every other Fall and its due this coming Fall.

DougM

[Beowulf]

>> ... did you flush the block by removing its drain? <<

Of course.

I caught a large portion of the fluid from the block in a big bucket. It looked very good with no flakes or grey stuff. I plan to flush/fill every year or approximately 15k miles.

>> ... just trying to make you paranoid. <<

Just because everyone's out to get me doesn't mean I'm paranoid.

-B-

[Riley]

Junk - here's an idea to add this to the FAQ list. I spent around 15 minutes of searching to find it. For sure other's will need this info.

Riley

Also here's another good bit of info from Rich that I found,
quoting Rich -

I removed my radiator and had it pressure flushed by a radiator shop. That removed all visible sludge from the top tank. There was never any significant amount of visible sludge in the bottom of the radiator. It collects primarily in the top tank starting from the passenger side. The radiator shop did not charge me for the work, though I did not and would not expect to get free service. $100 dollars would have gotten the radiator rodded out.

Remove the inlet pipe to the heater cores and connect a length of tubing to the inlets (one at a time) to act as a drain line. Buy 1/2 and 5/8 barbed garden hose adapters and connect a garden hose to the heater outlets (passenger side firewall) and reverse flush the heater cores. You will see a bunch of sludge come out. The metal inlet y fitting to the heater cores has a "drip leg" that also accumulates sludge. It appears to be designed for that purpose. Be sure to flush it out. Your garden hose will have enough flow to flush the sludge from the heater cores. Your garden hose will not have enough flow the flush the radiator. There will be sludge elsewhere in your engine. Expect to see more accumulate in your cleaned radiator.

[Riley]

So I've got a couple of questions, probably obvious but I'll ask anyway.

1) When using the "prestone tee" setup to push water into the heater outlet, where I do let the water flow out at. I guess at the block plug since a low point in the system. Or the petcock? or both?

FYI - I plan to just temp install the "tee" with long 5/8" sections connected at the heater outlet. Once done I'll put the curve OEM heater outlet hose back on.

2) If I was to flush the heaters on their own (as per Rich's idea), without the tee and just push water into the heater outlet. Where is the heater inlet to let it drain from. It looks like the U section and the rear of the engine is a possible location. Any pointers here? I can't find the heater inlets that Rich refers to (and it's doesn't seem to be in the FSM).

Thanks guys.

[e9999]

sheesh...
A wonderful piece of work on all this in the FAQ...!
:
E

[DanKunz]

I just install and replace 2 radiators in a row to get a good flush in my system

That was not a good week

[SeanAndHis80]

For those of you looking for more information on this proceedure should also take a look at e9999's writeup. It has a bunch of pics that will help get this job done.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/index.php?bo...threadid=15351

Thanks e9999 and others who have taken the time to write up these details. The FSM is pretty vague in this regard.