Starting back up after Roll Over

actionjackson · 02-22-06, 10:18 PM

I'm not saying I'm gonna go roll my 80 but after I get my cage on this year I want to try some of the more insane stuff and I just know it will happen.

Tech question for the group...After laying it over or after winching back over from a complete roll upside down what are the proper steps to take to start the engine back up? Are there some quick things I can check to minimize damage to the engine? There are lots of opinions out there..I just want to hear from the ones that really know our engine please. And I don't want to tow it all the way home to do some major engine work just to be on the safe side. I'm looking for the quick and dirty steps first. Just want to know what I can do to get it back going right on the trail. There are tons of guys who winch back over and drive it out. Just never seen an 80 do it yet.

I saw the video of FJBen starting his pig back up after his roll over in Walden. Did you do anything special before starting up your rig Ben?

Thanks!

CJF · 02-22-06, 10:30 PM

This is a response from someone who has not been through this, but it still seems to me something that, however far fetched it sounds, we all should know.

My understanding is: Once right side up, pull the spark plugs and crank it over a few times; then replace the plugs and start it.

No?

Curtis

IdahoDoug · 02-22-06, 10:34 PM

Yep, plugs out and turn it over. Be ready for some odd noises as lack of compression means you'll hear any slack in the engine's spinning/reciprocating parts (wrist pins, etc).

If you're out on a trail, then I'd check fluids for cross contamination and fire 'her up.

DougM

KliersLC · 02-22-06, 10:46 PM

My 80 was on its side for 8 hours, so this may be overkill, but ALL of my engine oil was in the intake. This may only apply to a drivers side layover. Also on the drivers side layovers you are going to lose a good bit of tranny fluid if you leave it very long. I didn't have any other issues besides those, but it took me a while to work all that oil through the cylinders. I also think that I have some oil in that funny valve on the Passenger side front of the engine because it makes a funny sound now that it didn't used to. Not funny like "I am going to cause catastrophic damage" but funny like "I ate something I shouldn't have and now my innards don't like it"

Almost goes without saying but make sure you shut her down ASAP.

Dan

A bit of info here: Engine Seized?????????

reffug · 02-22-06, 10:53 PM

The words 80 and rollover in the same sentence bother me for some strange reason.

jonb96150 · 02-22-06, 11:28 PM

Wellll, I have not laid the 80 over....yet, I have laid my 22re 4runner over on the passenger side 3 times and a 360 once but it landed back on its tires. Also laid a Pinzgauer over twice on its side. In all cases I was back on the tires in less than an hour except once with a Pinzgauer. All I did was check the crankcase oil level and start em back up. In all those cases I had killed the ignition during the roll, yeah slow rolls all of em. A couple times on the harder rolls they smoked a bit but no biggie. I did lose a bit of gear oil out of the tranny/t.c, but again not enough to worry about. YMMV.

nuclearlemon · 02-22-06, 11:37 PM

been over twice and was there for ben's. all were righted within an hour or so. let it sit a moment and allow fluids to go back to their respective places, check things like battery and cables (make sure they didn't contact something they shouldn't have and are still intact). check fluid levels and fan clearance, check to make sure everything looks ok and give it a shot. should sound fairly normal, if not, shut it down. expect some blue smoke for a bit.

all of these have been on older carbed, non computerized engines. and never any problems, but i know nothing about them newfangled puterized things.

PHAEDRUS · 02-22-06, 11:44 PM

When I rolled my 91 I killed it almost immediately and had it back on its wheels within 30 minutes, started right up and drove out. did lose about 1/2 quart of atf and some power steering fluid but otherwise oil level in the case was good and no further issues.
Dave

treerootCO · 02-23-06, 02:26 AM

We talked about pulling the plugs when Ben's 55 was back on it's wheels but decided the oil was thin enough it probably found it's way back into the crankcase. Judging by the lack of smoke on startup I doubt there was much oil in the cylinders. One thing we didn't check right away was if the key was still in the on position after the roll. The engine stopped but with the key on, the coil can get really hot, and there is an increased potential of a short having the accessories powered.

powderpig · 02-23-06, 05:56 AM

As a guy who works on this stuff for a living, if you do not take the time to make sure there is no oil between the pistion and cylinder head. you are asking for problems. You could disconnect the coil and turn the engine over first and listen for any hard cranking (with the plugs still in), or you could break out the wrenches and crank over the engine by hand with the coil disconnected. The quicker you can get it righted the less oil you will have any where. This may help with the choice of how to start it up. While it is easy to remove the plugs on older engines, it is more of a pain with the spark plug deep in the head. It does take more time, this may be a good thing depending on how you feel after being upside down or on your side.
If you happen to bend a connecting rod, or bump the head enough to loosen the head gasket, you will not be driveing very far or very long. The chose is made in the moment if you start right away or to clear the cylinders of any fluid.
My one time I was up side down, the truck went over quick(black ice, 85 4/runner). I had no time to turn off the engine and I went off the side of the road, did a 360 in the air and landed with the engine running and on all 4 tires. I turned off the engine first thing. I was in a daze for a little bit. I had also bit the end of my tongue off, blood was every where. After a bit I was more together, did the engine, fluid check, looked the truck over and then started the truck and drove out of the ditch. While I did not land on my lid, I still needed to check out the trucks condition before getting out of the ditch. I later had found I broke the front two spring packs.
So Shawn, it may all depend on how prepared you are and how much time the truck is on its side or lid. It might be a good idea to do a dry run at home to see how long it may take you to go through a sequence of removing the sparks and clearing the cylinders. With that knowlege you will be more prepared to make a informed choice on the work involved, tools needed. I would remove the EFI fuze and disconnect the coil (2 wire plug, power to coil) when doing this This will prevent the spart from grounding and the Computer from injecting more fuel into the cylinders. When turning the engine over with the starter.
later robbie

Trunk Monkey · 02-23-06, 07:26 AM

Friend rolled his 80 a few months ago, put it over on it's lid and it was there for probably 1-2 hours before it was back upright. He lost most of the ATF, we did the usual roll things (plugs, etc.) and it still wouldn't start. We finally ended up pulling the plug to the ECU for a minute and then it started right up.

alia176 · 02-23-06, 09:06 AM

I know this isn't a 80 that rolled over, but I think the lessons learned from this writer is worth the read: http://pugsly.bechange.com/Defender%...%20Carnage.pdf

He made some excellent points and observations that can benefit us all!

Ali

FJBen · 02-23-06, 09:14 AM

Here's some video of the righted pig...obviously not computer controlled by anymeans...in an 80 series I would have waited longer.

http://www.aspenstand.com/videos/FJben.mpg

cruiserdan · 02-23-06, 09:27 AM

Remember, batteries have sulfuric acid in them and the cases are not all that strong. There is an excelent chance that acid will come out of the battery and the case can possibly crack. If I were to be operating a vehicle in a manner where I may be likely to flop it, I would opt for a gel battery and make sure the mounting is as secure as possible. In other cases I would inspect the battery and surrounding area carefully and be prepared with some sort of base to neutraize the spilled acid. CokaCola works for that.

Riad · 02-23-06, 10:31 AM

Do every thing powderpig said. Although I think I have a bit different experience. I call it Jiffy Lube experience

. Some of you may have heard this before. Before I rolled my previous truck I took it to Jiffy Lube for oil change. They stripped the treads in my oil cap. It would come loose, even in a daily driving since my truck was SASed and on 35s. So after I rolled it all the oil came through the oil fillup hole becaue the cap came loose before the truck rolled on its roof. Although we checked the plugs to be sure but every thing was fine. It started right back up after filling up with oil and putting the plugs back in. So I think before you take on an obstacle or if you know that you might roll, you may want to loose the oil cap

, crazy idea, I know, it is probably not the right thing to do or I don't know whether it would work on an 80 or not but worked for me

.

2badfjs · 02-23-06, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reffug

The words 80 and rollover in the same sentence bother me for some strange reason.

you havent seem his 80 have you?

you gotta check out his web site...

woody · 02-23-06, 10:52 AM

you can "roll proof" a rig engine as well...as someone who rolls regularly, you do learn some tricks.

First, following a roll, the first priority is coordinating the recovery effort. Bark orders, push people around, don't ask - tell. My rig is never over for long, because I quickly get whoever is around to move their ass and get it upright. Speed IS of the essense.

Given my 40 always runs loose V8 Chevy's anyways

I never bother to pull the plugs. Tap the starter, and turn off immediately. I do that 2-3 times and once it feels like the motor is spinnin, kick it over. Never had an issue. (when the rig landed in the river in Attica, I DID pull all the plugs to spin it....6 of 8 were full of water....)

Oil past the rings is one issue...IMO, a bigger one is oil coming up thru the PCV or other hoses. My PCV hose on my V8 routes a full circle around the TBI prior to connecting, gives it a place to pool OTHER than in the intake, and has greatly reduced the smoking once it's upright.

I still think the biggest lesson is speed of recovery. I've righted my own rig more than once because the rigging I carry and the speed of my winch was better than waiting for someone to position themselves. Have a plan, and be prepared to take charge quickly.

woody · 02-23-06, 10:57 AM

oh yeah, automatics.....

the vent on my 700r (BTW: you can't seal an auto tight....tried that...not good) ...the vent has a clear piece of tubing on it....loops 3-4 times at the tranny case, up to the firewall, and another 2-3 loops into a small vent. lots of pooling places that way for that fluid.

NW-sickboy · 02-23-06, 11:26 AM

Mine was on its passenger side for an hour or so.. (seemed like forever).. we towed it to the trailhead (there were tools there) pulled plugs, turned it over.. everything was cool. put them back. started it up, drove home... ATF light was on for about 10 minutes..

mine was a very soft roll to the passenger side.. my windshild cacked horizontaly.. i dont have a good seal now... my a pillar on my PS looks kinda funny.. They are not the best for rolling.. I think EXO's are gay but if your going to roll it might be nice to protect your A and C pillars..

KliersLC · 02-24-06, 01:13 AM

[QUOTE=woody]oh yeah, automatics.....
the vent on my 700r (BTW: you can't seal an auto tight....tried that...not good) ...

We seal our Turbo 400s and 4L80Es in the USMC hummers pretty tight with the fording kit and whatnot. Seems to work fine. The dipstick has a rubber plug that expands when you tighten the handle. It may be that since we run a vent system up to the snorkle that we can get away with that, but even so, I have seen clowns leave the fording lever pulled (30 PSI into every cavity) and blow all of their seals...Not sure if that is what you are talking about or not.....anyhow.....hijack over.
Dan