PHH

[Nomis]

Visually - it didn't look like it needed replacing. It did feel a little brittle once I got it off. But either way it was a good idea to replace it before my 16 hour drive up in the mountains. There was no leakage - I'm sure it would have lasted quite a while longer - but you just don't know - that's the problem. I'd rather replace it and KNOW I'm okay than to have that "nagging" voice - granted my nagging voice may a little louder than others.

[Houston FZJ80]

What a silicone PHH kit looks like:

Where you can get one:

www.1fzfephh.com

Together we can rid the world of failing PHH hoses.

[alaskacruiser]

Houston- good business idea! That silicone heater hose is tough to find.

[IdahoDoug]

Now you need to develop a tool that can pull the old PHH off with ease. The other day, I was wondering if it would make sense to simply slice the old one in two right across the gap between the metal hose and block nipple. Then plug each metal end and simply fire a propane torch in there until the remains dripped off and the hose clamps would literally fall off. A little post fire cleanup would be heaven compared to the agonizing hour or more I have taken to get the 3 off I've changed.

DougM

[Rich]

I completely unbolted the metal downtube. Then it was not unreasonably hard to loosen the hose by pushing on the end with the flat side of a screwdriver. Takes a bit of care but avoids damage to either metal pipe from head or the metal downpipe.

I do appreciate how much harder it would be to remove if the tube remained bolted to the back of the engine.

[landtank]

I just sliced the hose length wise and pulled it off. How hard is that? You need a special tool to be developed for that?

[Bryan E.]

Special tool?? How about a replacable blade knife (carpenter's knife) with one of the gut hook style blades that the carpet guys use?? Slice it lengthwise like Rick is talking about.

[Rich]

The knife works fine as long as you take care not to nick the metal tubing. Nicking the tubing can cause a leak. That is why I use a screwdriver to press on the edge of the hose. I never pry between the hose and the pipe.

[Gumby]

Most tool makers make a hook tool for removing hoses. I use a knife to cut the hose lengthways after using a pair of side cutters to remove the outer clamp and a pair of pliers to remove the inner one.

[Houston FZJ80]

Ok.. how did you loosen the lower bolt? let alone have the confidence to torque it back in? I must have stuck a half dozen thing in there to see if it would work!

[MLX450]

Just ordered your kit Houston. Can't wait to tackle the PHH. I still have the scars from the battle with the VSV for the EGR. lol

[IdahoDoug]

Cutting the hose off is not the tough part. The difficulty is getting the hose clamps off so you CAN slice off the hose. Thus the torch suggestion - solves both.

DougM

[MLX450]

Torch? oooohh that sounds kinda scary. I might go with the dremel approach if i can't man handle the clamps.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Houston FZJ80

Ok.. how did you loosen the lower bolt? let alone have the confidence to torque it back in? I must have stuck a half dozen thing in there to see if it would work!

12mm socket on a ¼ inch drive ratchet wrench. Put the wrench on the bolt, and then place 18 - 20 inch metal rod on the end of the wrench and hit it with a hammer. The bolt is now loose and can be removed using the wrench.

Using the ¼ inch drive ratchet it can be retightened by hand alone. No need for rod or hammer.

The striking rod that I used for removal was an 18 inch long ½ inch drive breaker bar with the square drive piece temporarily removed. Made for a nice forked end that saddled the ratchet handle very well.

I do consider this abusive of the ¼ inch drive ratchet wrench. The Proto brand ratchet that I used survived little the worse for wear.

[miked]

just wanted to give a big thanks to Houston FZJ80 for the hose and clamp kit from www.1fzfephh.com as well as all the advice i've found here. it went fairly smooth.
i left the bottom bolt tight, loosened the tranny fill tube, used a dremel to remove the outer clamp, dish soap to lube the tube, and boiled the hose.
not at all as hard as it's cracked up to be. pesky yes, but not impossible.

[e9999]

I really like the Dremel idea. I have one of these long snake flex wands to use with it. I'll just cut everything in the way with a disc....

[JAPFPE]

******Warning....cross post to PHH Toyota FUBAR or Satan's Revenge*******

I too just wrapped up the PHH replacement and utilizing HOUSTONFJZ80's (Brett's) blue silicon hose set-up with constant tension clamps. Pretty sweet looking set-up overall....too bad I'll never (hopefully ) see it again though !

After spending a fun-filled 12 hour day in May repacking the Birfields, I thought the horror stories of the PHH replacement must had to be over-rated. After replacing the plugs, downstream O2 sensor, and distributor cap I thought that I'd go after the PHH since I had a couple of hours to spare. Following the frustrating experience of draining of coolant (must be a way to catch ALL of it..), I accessed the PHH via the DS wheel well based on tips posted here. Removing the tranny dip stick tube was also a requirement as far as I was concerned unless you have hands the size of a 6 year old ballet dancer !Following a quick size-up, I decided to attack the hose clamp on the heater tube with the Dremel (gone in 30 seconds using a very cautious cutting speed). The engine side clamp was fortunately not totally rotated to the back of the engine so I was able to grab it with a pair of Channel-Locks to slid it off the hose. Next came the carpenter's knife which quickly sliced thru the old hose. The old hose was in really, really good shape. Looked like new except for some white discoloration on the interior of the hose where it is exposed to the coolant stream.

I removed the TOP mounting bolt for the heater tube which allowed the tube to be rotated such that I had a gap of about 1-1/4 in. between the engine stub and the heater tube. (At this point I had visions of completing the entire job in less than an hour ...). I grabbed the snappy little blue silicon hose and gave the interior a nice coating of orange Gatorade flavored siliva. I subsequently proceeded to push and twist the hose onto the HEATER TUBE with the idea that I would realign the heater tube to the engine stub and then slide the hose onto the engine stub completing the job 15 minutes later (clean-up time)....... I proceeded to engage in this activity of twisting and pushing the hose onto the heater tube and then attempting to align the hose on the engine stub for at least 20 minutes. Remembering another helpful hint from this board, I then ran inside the house to locate the bottle of "Personal Lubricant". After finding it and giving the hose another bath in friction reducing liquid, I again spent another 20 minutes trying to get the hose fully onto the heater tube and then aligned with the engine stub. The hose would not fully align onto the engine stub.

At this point I'm questioning WHY I decided to embark on this task given the "new" appearence of the original hose. My wife is also visiting me more frequently in the driveway asking "How's it going ?" and the infamous "Is everything all right ?" I attempt to explain to her that the hose could have blown at any minute stranding her within miles of the house.

Seeing the current evolution going nowhere, I decided to try another tactic and first placed the new hose onto the ENGINE STUB then onto the heater tube ......BINGO, on in 2 minutes ! So there you have it, the first time I've ever spent 2-1/2 hours with saliva and K-Y on my hand (s) !

[LindsayInCali]

Hi Japfpe,

How did you get the heater tube to rotate with only the top bolt loose? I loosened that bolt but the tube won't move at all. Any hints? Thank you,

Lindsay.

[IdahoDoug]

L,

It takes a bit of force, because you're actually bending the lower mounting tab a bit in order to pull the metal pipe a quarter inch from the block or so. Loosening the top mount allows this bit of 'rotation' to occur. You can't do this untill the PHH is off, and the purpose of it is to provide a bit of clearance to get the new section of hose on. Once on, you push the pipe back against the block, and the clamps hold it there once tightened, then installing the top mount further secures it.

DougM

[rich121]

I'm totally confused. I have a 96 FZJ.
I ordered the PHH kit, then, went out and looked for myself.
On the site where I ordered the kit, they show the replaced PHH hoses as the ones that go on either end of the U-shaped hard plastic tube.
What about all the other short hoses that go into the firewall, also the ones in the system just below, and what about the ones that go into the firewall off the metal tube coming off the water pump?
Why only replace the 2? And, if 2 small pieces of hose and 4 clamps cost me $45, what is it going to cost me to do all of them?????

Rick

[Cruiserdrew]

Originally Posted by rich121

Why only replace the 2? And, if 2 small pieces of hose and 4 clamps cost me $45, what is it going to cost me to do all of them?????

Rick

Rick-Don't sweat this. Heater hose is cheap. The very best available is the Gates Green Stripe. It's roughly $2.50 or so per foot. Go buy a length of this in 5/8, and replace as many hoses as you want. I just bought a 25 foot length. It is really good stuff. I have some in my FJ40 that looks and feels as good as it did 5 years ago when I installed it.

The thing about the PHH, is that you can't see it going bad, so it tends to get you at a bad time. Replace with the kit, or with the Green stripe and sleep easy. Some of the heater hoses on the firewall are difficult to replace, but they don't seem to deteriorate like the PHH.

[Grench]

Originally Posted by rich121

I'm totally confused. I have a 96 FZJ.
I ordered the PHH kit, then, went out and looked for myself.
On the site where I ordered the kit, they show the replaced PHH hoses as the ones that go on either end of the U-shaped hard plastic tube.
What about all the other short hoses that go into the firewall, also the ones in the system just below, and what about the ones that go into the firewall off the metal tube coming off the water pump?
Why only replace the 2? And, if 2 small pieces of hose and 4 clamps cost me $45, what is it going to cost me to do all of them?????

Rick

Those hoses on the plastic tube aren't the PHH.

The PHH resides where you can't even see it without lifting the truck (use chocks), removing the DS front wheel, moving the transmission dip stick, pushing the wiring harness out of the way and looking up and back through the hole you just made. Thats why they call it a PHH.

You were looking at the picture of the ancillary hoses the same diameter that reside on top of the block. They're not pesky enough to be nicknamed.

[1000-oaks]

Replaced my PHH with the blue silicone kit today, wasn't much fun. I have some new tips and have to disagree with some of the other tips I read on the forum prior to the job, YMMV.

- Buy a 12mm 12-point socket ahead of time. It sucks trying to get a 6-point socket on a bolt you can't see, even if you already have a flex-head wrench as I did.

-Someone said they had a hard time draining the radiator without making a mess. Maybe they don't know about the petcock on the DS bottom corner of the radiator? Look up through the holes in the crossmember below that corner of the radiator and you'll see a little nipple. Push a length of small diamter hose over the nipple, put a large bucket under the hose, then open the white plastic valve on the back of the radiator. You might have to move some foam weatherstripping around to find the valve tab. No mess radiator drain.

- Have a buddy handy to look down the back of the cylinder head (the lower pipe bolt is below the end of the fuel rail) while you attack the lower pipe bolt with the flex-head wrench from the DS wheel well, he can direct you to the bolt right-left-up-down and make your life a lot easier. Getting the socket on this bolt by myself was BY FAR the most time consuming part of the job. I almost got out my helmet cam and camcorder so I could get a view of the bolt & socket, but I'm sure the batteries were dead... If you decide not to get the 12-point socket and use a 6-point, use White-Out to make lines on the outside of the socket showing the position of the internal hex, so your buddy can help you line up the hex with the bolt head.

- Before removing the pipe bolts, I used a long pry bar as a chisel and hammered off the factory pin clamp. I used a small vice-grip to hold the spring clamp open while I sliced the original hose lengthwise with a razor blade. Then I grabbed the hose with a needle-nose plier and pulled it off the block.

- I don't see any reason to loosen the lower pipe bolt without removing it completely. If you only loosen it to get more wiggle in the pipe, you don't get much more anyway because the top of the pipe hits the EGR valve nut. Getting the socket on the bolt was the hard part, removing the loosened bolt and threading it back into the hole during reassembly was EASY (from the DS wheel well), and there's no magic in my fingertips. No more than 10 seconds to thread the bolt back in, and my hands/arms are average size. Also, removing the pipe allows you to slide on the new hose at your convenience, then you only have one end to deal with at the block. (Heck you could even tighten one hose clamp while you're at it, though I like to tighten these things installed on the vehicle so I know I can undo the clamp later if I have to.) I reinstalled the pipe/hose combo from below, via the DS wheel-well. (It could be tough to line up the hole in the lower pipe tab if the tabs are bent after a round of forceful "wiggling" though.)

- Initially I tried to wiggle/pull/manhandle/bend the pipe without removing the lower bolt, which didn't get me the enough room between the block and the pipe. All it did was create problems later during reassembly, when I noticed the bent tabs on the pipe were creating a fairly substantial downward side load on the new hose (once the bolts were tightened). I definitely didn't want the soft section resisting the rigid steel, so I removed the pipe again and enlarged the lower mounting hole and vertically slotted the upper hole with a round file. Presto, the pipe lined up with the block tube again and the hose was relaxed and happy.

- At least with the blue silicone kit, there's no reason to "boil the hose" first to soften it up. Seriously, it slides on easily even dry (the first time I used spit).

- Some recommended tightening the hose clamps on the hose just enough that they don't fall off prior to sliding the hose on the pipes. Bad idea, unless you enjoy fighting to get the hose over the pipe barbs. (Maybe this is where the boilling idea came from? Trying to compress the silicone hose wall between the clamps and the pipe barb?) Leave the clamps LOOSE on the hose (or even slide them off the hose and up onto the pipe) until you have it slid into place, then tighten the pipe bolts, then position and tighten the hose clamps. I positioned the clamp heads pointing down, toward the front of the vehicle as others recommended. Probably the only way to do it.

- I tightened the clamp bolts from under the truck with a long extension (placed in front of the rubber hoses but behind the wiring loom) and a swivel at the 8mm socket (not deep well), worked great.

- I wonder if it's really even necessary to put the lower pipe bolt back in, I'll bet you could leave it out for the rest of the life of the vehicle and never, ever have a problem. I almost just left it out, but wanted to see what all the fuss was about so I reattached it. (There are some seriously anal/paranoid/fanatical guys on this forum, lol. Look out for me on the road; I *gasp* mixed front brake pad brands/types when they wore unevenly.)

[zcruiser]

Thanks, I just ordered mine (Gates version) and may find some time over the 4th to get this PM done and off my mind...

[badmuthatrucka]

I don't know what everyone's problem is with replacing this hose. It's perfectly accessible when you take off the head.

[powderpig]

Your just a slacker, you are doing the PHH the easy way.

[NLXTACY]

Well ordered the Silicone hose and got it about a week ago. Looks pretty cool. I knew it was leaking but I was waiting for this weekend to change it. Well, the PHH completely blew and steam was shooting out from the bottom of the truck. I happened to be right down the street from my mechanic (Enterprise Toyota in Canoga Park). By this time the truck was really starting to overheat. So I knew after reading this post that I was going to be paying a bunch. So he gave me a ride home where I gave him the Blue Hose. He wasn't very impressed :(

Well I get a call that it was done. He picks me up. Everything is done and no problems. Total time for R&R? 1:30

My total bill? $80.00

Best $80.00 I ever spent in my life!!!!!

[grunt001]

Originally Posted by NLXTACY

Well I get a call that it was done. He picks me up. Everything is done and no problems. Total time for R&R? 1:30

My total bill? $80.00

Best $80.00 I ever spent in my life!!!!!

DANG! $80? Wow, for that price, I might have to drive down there and have him do mine. Can you PM me your mechanics name?

[Manlye]

Well after hours I finally changed out the PHH, with Houston's kit. I thought I would add that I found the back side of a pickle fork works great to slide the new hose on to the block nipple. Well time to tend to my mangled forearms.