PHH

[Beowulf]

I flush with tap water but fill with distilled. It sounds like you're well prepared for another year or two with a well serviced cooling system. Thanks for the pic & updated link on the constant tension clamps.

(I love the McMaster site!)

-B-

[IdahoDoug]

How is the pictured clamp "constant tension"? AFAIK, this phrase refers to spring steel clamps made to specific sizes that will continue to squeeze as the hose acquires a dent from the clamp. A clamp as pictured will put tension on the hose, but as the denting occurs it will place less tension on the hose, thus not called "constant tension". You'll find a number of constant tension spring clamps on the 80. Am I right or wrong on this, or does the pictured clamp have some other tensioning ability we cannot see?

[Riley]

Doug,

I think the constant tension term is in regards to temperture. If I recall correctly, with silicon hose, it can leak when cold. The constent tension clamp, it's still tight when cold??? something like that. Rich mentioned this back when he first mentioned these clamps (would have been back on Oct 2003 timeframe). I'll try to find this thread in a second.

I think there is a special metal spring in there to keep the tension when cold.

I ordered a pair of these clamps as well but I think I got a size too big. Man they are large and can't imagine getting them installed on the PHH

Riley

edit - See page one of this very thread. Rich covers the cold temp issue.

[IdahoDoug]

Pretty cool design. Must have a coil spring inside the barrel, or that's it against the screw head. Nice.

Doug

[shocker]

[quote author=IdahoDoug link=board=2;threadid=7219;start=msg121742#msg1217 42 date=1079408837]
How is the pictured clamp "constant tension"? AFAIK, this phrase refers to spring steel clamps made to specific sizes that will continue to squeeze as the hose acquires a dent from the clamp. A clamp as pictured will put tension on the hose, but as the denting occurs it will place less tension on the hose, thus not called "constant tension". You'll find a number of constant tension spring clamps on the 80. Am I right or wrong on this, or does the pictured clamp have some other tensioning ability we cannot see?
[/quote]

The part of the clamp I have depicted with a red arrow in the attached pic is actually a series of conical washers that compress when you tighten the clamp. Since the group of washers want to return to their original shape, they are putting a constant outward tention on the worm drive bolt.

I drew a simple diagram of the washers to the right. I'll take a picture of the installed hose and post it later.

[shocker]

[quote author=Riley link=board=2;threadid=7219;start=msg121766#msg1217 66 date=1079410979]
I ordered a pair of these clamps as well but I think I got a size too big. Man they are large and can't imagine getting them installed on the PHH

Riley
[/quote]

The ones I used are the smallest ones they offer, I believe. At least the smallest (both width and diameter) that are shown on page 211 of their catalog.

[shocker]

O.K. Best picture I could get in the confines of the area, but you can see the outer clamp, the hose, and part of the inner clamp (closest to the engine) which is oriented the same way as the outer.

[Junk]

Anyone reading this thread, and goes to Napa to buy their hose, make sure you also read this thread
http://forum.ih8mud.com/index.php?bo...threadid=13581

[Junk]

for clamp debate, see -> http://forum.ih8mud.com/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=14250

[Riley]

As I prepare for this job I noticed that we have a FAQ on the PHH but we spent sooo long on the hose and clamps themselves that we just barely touched on the actual how to replace the heater hose.

For completeness here's a link to Slee's site tech page for the PHH (or inlet heater hose):

http://www.sleeoffroad.com/technical/tz_heater_hose.htm

And another thread on IH8MUD for reference:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/index.php?bo...tart=msg135760

[Riley]

Since Simon and I did the PHH job yesterday, I thought I’d add to this FAQ thread with a few observations.

The www.sleeoffroad.com site has a few different methods for replacing the heater hose. We effectively opted for the Rick Bigelow method (aka Landtank). The lower bolt on the heater pipe was all but impossible to get at, so why bother. Thanks for the detailed write-up Rick, well done.

After it was all done I realized how helpful it was to do this with 2 guys. As usual having 2 brains is better than one. It really helps to bounce ideas plus one guy might have a knack for pushing the hose on and the other might have a knack for pulling off the old clamp. So I’d recommend doing this with a buddy. Also taking a break helps when your jammed up under your truck.

We also found it useful to have a large selection of tools. Many times we found that we had to try one guys pliers or the other’s pliers to get a clamp off. A set of pliers that’s 0.5” longer just might not fit. We probably had 8 to 10 sets of pliers out by the end

Using dish soap was helpful and I’d suggest putting it on the pipe as well in the location that you will be sliding up the heater hose. We also heated the hose with boiling water before starting, I’m not sure how much that helped as it cooled before a guy could get it fitted onto the pipe. Probably helps though.

We used the constant tension lined clamps and then got into a debate on the easiest orientation. We ended up with the screw head facing down and on the side of the clamp facing the front of the truck (screw assembly at the front not at the rear). At first I thought this was a mistake but after screwing around and finally getting installed on my truck, Simon came up with the idea of using a ¼” racket with a very long extension from underneath while I held the clamp from the wheel-well and guided the mini-socket onto the clamp screw head. Another reason for 2 man job. Worked pretty good.

I would have to say the hardest part looking back was getting the old clamps off. The dremel idea might have worked, not sure if there is enough room. Sliding on the new hose is a little tough as well.


my ranking looking back -> to a

[semlin]

I agree with Riley that this is less frustrating with two people. You can tag team or go work on getting ready to flush the other truck when your arm gets tired. My comments are that the following procedure worked:

1. remove the bolt holding the auto tranny dipstick, and the upper accessible bolt holding the other end of the PHH heater pipe to the intake plenum at the top back of block, and remove the rubber heater hose here too. This gave enough movement in the heater pipe. As Riley notes, we could not even find the lower bolt holding pipe in place to loosen it but that extra deflection only matters for step 7 anyway, and Riley managed to get the hoses on twice without it.

2. remove the old clamps off the PHH by whatever combination of pliers, vice grips, side cutters and cursing works for you. The outer oem cotter pin clamp had to be pried and cut off in one case but it was possible to pull the pin in the other with vice grips and then it fell apart. The inner oem pinch clamp slid off the hose eventually if you could manage to keep it pinched long enough using pliers or vice grips. It was harder on my truck because the hose was badly bloated and distorted so we had to cut away some of the hose

3. once the clamps are off, just cut the old PHH off with an exacto knife

4. grease the pipe and block nipple with detergent

5. put the new silicone hose in boiling water to soften it

6. slip the clamps onto the pipe. adjust them first so they are just tight enough to hold a position on the hose. I would put the clamps on the opposite way to Shocker's photo above (e.g., with the bolt mechanism on the left side of the pipe and the bolt head pointing down)

7. use the small amt of deflection between pipe and block nipple available slip hose over the pipe and then slide hose back until hose and pipe end are flush.

8. line up the pipe with the block nipple and push the hose on. Your thumb works good.

9. if necessary, use a pair of vice grips adjusted to just wider than the pipe to evenly push the hose the last part of the way to flush with the end of the block nipple

10. adjust the inner clamp to the position noted above and tighten it with a 1/4" rachet and 8mm socket

11. adjust the outer clamp to the same position and tighten from underneath the truck using an extension bar.

Step 2 was the hardest followed by 7. Step 10 was very hard the first time when we had not preadjusted the clamp to not slip around on the hose.

Total "perfected" job time is under 1 hour.

[LandCruiserPhil]

My PHH has already been done the hard way with the wrong clamps. But in my quest to keep my engine compartment as cool as possible (An Arizona thing) I cut the backside of the fender skirts out. Making the PHH and starter access more friendly for service the next time.

Phil

[Riley]

That's pretty funny Phil. I was cutting my hand on the fender skirt edge and the thought of cutting it open crossed my mind as well. Actaully I first thought of it when working on my truck so I suffered in pain. When working on Simon's truck he was lucky I forgot about it. :

[Chris_Geiger]

165K miles and the PHH was leaking, so it was time to change it. I read many of the posts about removing the hard line from the block to install a new hose. After looking at it all and thinking, I choose remove the top bolt from the steel tube and then grab it with a pair of pliers and rip it off the lower mount using the Brute Force Method (BFM)! After tearing it off it's second mount, I was able to remove the PHH from the block by hand using the hard line to pull with.

I installed about 18" of 5/8" quality heater hose from the block to the heater valve, completely eliminating the hard line on the back of the block. The whole process took less then an hour. Now if I ever have to replace that hose again (another 10 years from now?)I won't have to deal with that tube.

[landtank]

What a hack! And you actually seem proud of yourself.

[Chris_Geiger]

Originally Posted by landtank

What a hack! And you actually seem proud of yourself.

The hack was the bozo that designed that setup, what was Toyota thinking? Exactly what tool did Toyota have in mind to remove the bolt on the back of the motor? I have a good set of tools and could not get anything to fit on that bolt.

18" of heater hose is not a hack it is a proper redesign of a terrible design flaw by Toyota. Many factory cars and trucks including Toyotas use heater hose for heater lines.

[landtank]

That rear bolt doesn't need to be removed to do the job correctly. Toyota has always used metal tubing with stub hoses. The old FJ60 had a vacuum tree which ran across the engine. In fact there are tubes in you coolant system that run to and from the radiator. Do you plan on taking those design flaws out also?

[Chris_Geiger]

Originally Posted by landtank

That rear bolt doesn't need to be removed to do the job correctly. Toyota has always used metal tubing with stub hoses. The old FJ60 had a vacuum tree which ran across the engine. In fact there are tubes in you coolant system that run to and from the radiator. Do you plan on taking those design flaws out also?

I don't think of something with a high failure rate like this part as being correctly designed. Other lines are not having problems so I will leave them alone. This line is a problem and putting it back to stock is not an acceptable solution to me. I don't know if it's the short hose or an inferior rubber but it's clearly a problem as it's having such a high failure rate. I would normally think steel tubing as being more reliable but in this case it's a problem.

When I built my trail buggy with a rear radiator I used tubing to get from the front engine to the rear radiator and then used 2' long hoses to go from the radiator to the tubes. So clearly I don't have a problem with tubing used for radiator.

I believe this solution will be more reliable and is easer to install than other solutions I have seen. I have not seen anyone else doing this so I posted it here as another solution to this common problem.

[cruiserdan]

I respectfully dis-agree with the "high failure rate" statement. What we have here is a piece of heater hose that doesn't like to live longer than 10 years, not a GM automatic trans that takes a shit at 56,000 miles...............


The PHH IS the PHH because of the difficulty in performing the repair, not the materials used in assembly.
D-

[landtank]

I'm curious how a longer length of the same type of hose is going to extend the service interval of the part?

[Chris_Geiger]

Originally Posted by landtank

I'm curious how a longer length of the same type of hose is going to extend the service interval of the part?

I am curious why this hose is the first hose to fail on many 80s?

[cruiserdan]

I, for one, find it interesting that one of the few things we can find to bitch about is a 50mm piece of 16mm water hose that doesn't last 300,000 miles like the rest of the vehicle.... (well, maybe not the head gasket or the oil galley plug )

[Chris_Geiger]

Originally Posted by cruiserdan

I respectfully dis-agree with the "high failure rate" statement. What we have here is a piece of heater hose that doesn't like to live longer than 10 years, not a GM automatic trans that takes a shit at 56,000 miles...............


The PHH IS the PHH because of the difficulty in performing the repair, not the materials used in assembly.
D-

It's true, the difference between Toyota and GM makes it's look like they are built on different planets. If we were talking about a GM truck, I would looking at a motor and trans job not a hose!

Every car and truck has something on the motor that's hard to reach! I love my 80, I just hate the damn stupid PHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Now it's gone forever. I am keeping a spare hone in the truck so if I ever need to install one on the trail for someone else, I can do it quickly without going under the truck.

[Riley]

Once you know how to replace the hose and actually do replace it before it fails, it's not that bad.

Now if I'd just stop having the odd nightmare over the HG, I'd be better off.

[Chris_Geiger]

Originally Posted by Riley

Once you know how to replace the hose and actually do replace it before it fails, it's not that bad.

Now if I'd just stop having the odd nightmare over the HG, I'd be better off.

Yep, I know the HG is in my near future.

I have a huge load of parts to pickup on Thursday, 200 miles away down in LA. I was worried I was going to have to pull the trailer with some other truck. I much prefer my 80 for this trip!

[Beowulf]

>> I have not seen anyone else doing this [long hose to bypass metal tube] <<
>> so I posted it here as another solution to this common problem. <<

Someone posted this suggestion on the 80sCool list about 3 years ago and at least 1 guy posted that he had done this. I believe they left the metal tube in place and just ran a bypass; securing it out of the way. I carry a 3' section of 5/8" hose in my spares with two hose clamps already on it. The primary purpose is to have a quick fix for the PHH if it fails at a bad time.

-B-

[IdahoDoug]

There are plenty of hard/impossible to reach items on other cars that never make it to the forum headlines simply because those vehicles don't make it to 150, 200, or 400k miles and need replacing. Believe me, I've been a shade tree mechanic all my life and there are things on cars that would make you cry trying to find a way to replace. And if I do say so myself, I'm GOOD at challenges like that.

Having said that, I'm one of the few that feels the PHH is not really that tough in the scheme of things. I am not dainty in the hand department and had no trouble replacing mine in about 30 minutes once I had the wheel off. I'll be doing it on my brother in law's 80 either tomorrow evening or Monday. I think what's happened is that we in the 80 community have made much ado about the dinky little thing and everyone's changing them out of sheer paranoia. My bro in law's rig has 280,000 casually maintained miles and he is in town from LA where you'd think the hose would have failed long ago.

So, yeah they're a lot of trouble for a 2.5 inch piece of hose, but simply because it got a catchy name I believe it has had a lot of undeserved other baggage attached to it.

DougM