Dual fuel setup... in the U.S.?

[Mr.Bryan]

Hey guys, I'm not going to worry about it yet, but when I get back home if gas prices are still up above 3$/gal I'm seriously going to consider converting to propane. I've searched a little, and I've found some info, but I'm having a real hard time finding anything in the U.S. I went to www.gotpropane.com and I'm going to give them a call, find out if there is anything that would work for my cruiser, but is this enticing anyone else? Propane around me is $1.30/gal and I think a conversion would pretty much pay for itself within a year... depending on the price of it.

Basically I'm just curious if anyone has more information on it/ how to do it; that sorta stuff.

[hoser]

For those following this thread, here's a simple page explaining what needs to be done to run a dual fuel set-up.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/lpg5.htm

Bryan, where will you install the LPG tank? Perhaps a donut style tank where the spare tire usually goes?

[alia176]

and how do we know that LP won't follow the same price pattern as gasoline and diesel? I know they're two different animals but.....

Ali

[Mr.Bryan]

Ali, you do bring forth a very valid point. I do have a feeling that propane is going to creep its way up as well, but as far as a time table, I dont think anyone can guess when... I'm going to wait at least 5 months or so before I would do anything, and in that time, if propane is still around where it is now, then I think I'd be in the clear. We'll see what happens.

Hoser, thanks for the tid bit of info. As far as tank location, I was thinking either in the spot of spare tire, or making some sort of a false floor in the back of the cruiser and putting the tank(s) in a metal box of some sort, not really sure. I'd have to see how serious I am about this.

[pcruiser80]

The only place I know of in the US that will do this for you is in Peachtree City, GA. www.hybridfuelsystems.com. You won't pay it off in a year's worth of fuel though.

Ditch that idea and pick up an '80s era Mercedes diesel. Convert it to veggie oil or make your own biodiesel. I'm picking up a '80 300D for $700. Even the AC works at that price! 30mpg and I refuel at chicken wing restaurants.

Powell

P.S. - Save the 80 for the weekend offroad trips!

[Cruiser Jimmy]

Fellows,

Go to this web site and read the basics of propane.

http://www.propanecarbs.com/examples.html

Actaully, propane is a refined petro and natural gas, so this commodity could follow gas pricing. In my search I have not found a web site that tracks pricing yet: comparing gas and propane over time. That's next on the agenda.

Additionally, The amount of propane going into the engine will displace an equal amount of air, therefore volumetric efficiency decreases.

The option is to go to a turbo propane and thus acheiving two aspects of an annual fuel cost reduction: Lower gas price and increased mileage on a cruiser.

Considering the payback period for a propane, (or turbo propane) setup I figure about two years or four years respectively off the top of my head. So that's something to consider also.

My $0.02's.

[Cruiser Jimmy]

Originally Posted by alia176

and how do we know that LP won't follow the same price pattern as gasoline and diesel? I know they're two different animals but.....

Ali

Ali,
Google found one hit on Propane Pricing.

[tucker74]

Ping Jim_Phillips here on the board - he did this conversion on a Euro-spec FZJ80 he had a couple years back. Should be able to give you some good info and vendors -

Tucker

[tevogel]

i am in the propane bussiness.your milage will drop by at least 30% but it burns really clean so engine will last 500000 miles.you would need at least a 50 gal tank because you can only fill those tanks to 80%.tank and lines cannot be near any of the passenger area because if you develop a leak or it is hot and the tank vents pressure off you dont want to blow up.tank would have to be permanetly mounted in a place probably underneath or back with protection.it is not always easy finding a place to get propane also.dont get me wrong it is a great clean burning fuel but i would not do it on my cruiser.propane prices also follow crude prices.

[Walking Eagle]

What's the road tax structure on Propane? A huge chunk of gasoline price is the road taxes - does Propane have simular?

[Darwood]

I've thought about this as well. The second tank recess would be a perfect place for a tank.

[snowwolf]

just thought I would say that I have had the conversion done on my 4.5 LC and its great, it was done by a reputable company and I cant find iny reason not to have it done, if you need to know any more info just ask...

[Cruiser Jimmy]

Originally Posted by snowwolf

just thought I would say that I have had the conversion done on my 4.5 LC and its great, it was done by a reputable company and I cant find iny reason not to have it done, if you need to know any more info just ask...

Snow, it's serious consideration for me. I'll keep in touch. Jim

[snowwolf]

It was a full tank of gas.....LPG and have done 140 miles so far and the light is still on full tank, it has three lights...full 3/4 half and low I hope the stystem is not faulty, will let you know how i get on...

[80me]

Originally Posted by pcruiser80

The only place I know of in the US that will do this for you is in Peachtree City, GA. www.hybridfuelsystems.com. You won't pay it off in a year's worth of fuel though.

Ditch that idea and pick up an '80s era Mercedes diesel. Convert it to veggie oil or make your own biodiesel. I'm picking up a '80 300D for $700. Even the AC works at that price! 30mpg and I refuel at chicken wing restaurants.

Powell

P.S. - Save the 80 for the weekend offroad trips!

This sounds like the plan. Any links for veggie fuel or biodiesel? How easy is it to attain "fuel". Make your own biodiesel? Going to have to do some research.

[80me]

Fire wood has gone up......propane will also.

[fj803fe]

Originally Posted by jklubens

Ali,
Google found one hit on Propane Pricing.

Why not LNG? I am in LNG paradise around here. To give you an idea of Natural gas prices It is wavering at the moment but we stay around 12-13 US/mmcf.

Last year around this time we were at 6 US/mmcf. Kindof a bit of an increase, but yet still cheaper than gas.

Anyway, you could tap a line at the well site in this area and bring it to your tank. This in my belief makes natural gas a commodity that may not hit the margin of prices that gasoline does due to the seperation and treatment involved with gas. ""Typically" the NG is in more shallow formations=cheaper drilling costs, once de-watered it is basically free flowing=less on-site attendance and inspections of moving equipment, and ready to go out of the ground.

But, ya never know....

[thelal]

I converted my 96 FZJ cruiser in 98 in the UK. I ran LPG in Scotland as it was nearly $100 to fill up in petrol. At the time it cost >$1300 to convert. In hindsight I could have done most of the work (80%) myself and left the LPG expert to do the tuning (as a lot of the cost is labor to install, run wires, pipes, fab tank cage etc.) At the time it was 90p/litre for petrol, 38p/liter for LPG and I was able to get it for 15p/litre . So it paid for itself very quickly.

Since back in the US (CO) I've just started using it again (as the petrol prices have increased) after a year+. Took a bit of 'coaxing' (had a corroded solenoid) but running fine now. I've not run a full tank true (100litres) to guage my MPG (adjusted) but expect (price wise) for it to be 20%+ cheaper.

I get approx 20-30% less efficency as its not tuned specifically for LPG. If I ran it exclusively (and the propane prices stayed low enough) then I would consider it. Some of the Aussie boys (several running LPG systems) run Uniden chips which allow the engine to run more efficently on LPG (compared to petrol) as it maps the gas/air mix specifically for Lpg. They can also get more HP and MPG.

You need to weigh up the hassle factor, costs, install, propane price (and likely to increase), comparision to petrol prices (and increase), amount of travel you will do, where u will source LPG (house supply?) etc..

Drop me an email if u want more info. brendan dot lally at mail dot com

[UltraFJ]

Thought it might be interesting to bring this back TTT. It seems that we have made a huge jump in pricing as MTBE is being removed (but not until May 5,2006) from our markets in the East and Southeast. MTBE is being replaced by ethanol btw. Apparently many have done so early.

Price per gallon has jumped here more than $0.40-.45 in the last week. I saw on MSNBC yesterday that a few stations in New York were hitting $4.50 for premium.

They say that the spike will not continue, but with oil trading between $70- possibly $80 per barrell by the end of summer, you think it might be time to reconsider?

I heard Brazil is virtually if not totally "oil independent" as of this week. They started moving to ethanol in the 70's. I'll try to find more info.

[fzj80kidpen]

Holy ancient thread rebirth.
Regular at $285 in NC.
Starting to rethink diesel conversion again but LPG maybe an option

[re_guderian]

Originally Posted by fzj80kidpen

Regular at $285 in NC.

Dude, that puts a fillup at ~$5700...

but seriously...

I think I'd consider electric before LPG. I remember an article several years ago about a company in AZ that had converted an old Land Rover to electric, outfitted with a small diesel generator to extend range. Pretty cool. For a trail rig, might not be bad. Probably not for the DD. Weirdest thing was the lack of noise while riding trails, they said...

[rockclmbr]

Nice thought and all but...where do you fill up with LPG? Do you go to the gas stations that have the large propane tank in the corner? Everytime I fill my 5 gal bbq tank I have to wait 20 min for the store manager to come out and fill it and then I have to go inside and wait in line to pay. I would enjoy the cleaner burn, but not the wait associated with filling up!

[tucker74]

Anybody ever lookin into an E85 Ethanol flex conversion? I've been looking in to it but can't find anything Toyota specific - I know they sell vehicles in Brazil, so these vehicles have to be able to run ethanol.

Anyone?

Tucker

[snowwolf]

The price of LPG/Propane has stayed about half price to petrol here in the UK, I had mine converted last sept and have covered 14000 miles, the price of LPG has risen only 5 pence so has not gone up to much, it's 45 pence where as petrol is 97 pence.

I have found you get slightly less miles to the litre, but definitly not the 30% less quoted in an earlier post, I get 210 miles to a tank full of LPG which costs £30 on a long run on a motorway/freeway at 70 mph I get about 220 miles.

It's so good going into to fuel up and it only costs £30 compared to the £68