Tools R Us is a BAD DUDE!

[IdahoDoug]

Tape,

Sounds like the problem is the fan that is provided with the SC kit is not up to the task. Yes, it provides the needed clearance to the added SC components, but it is not as effective at cooling.

I like the adjustable blue feature - Dan what is the rattle on these? Also, I sent a small list 0'stuff to you while you were apparently pickling your brain on the lake.....

The only issue with the adjustable feature is that you'd suffer the power loss/mpg loss all the time by having it come in earlier. The 'selectable' nature of using a local electric heat source makes it possible to anticipate cooling needs, then have the fan function normally. A typical time to have it on would be towing a heavy trailer on a hot day and a few passes are coming up. I'd sacrifice a couple MPG on such a day.

Having said that, I'm VERY interested in what you guys find regarding tuning the blue fan clutch as I have one and may order another for the other truck (has original green one).

DougM

[reffug]

Originally Posted by cruiserdan

Here is an interesting foot-note to this whole deal...........

Turbo 80's do not seem to have heating issues.........Guess which fan blade they have..........

YUP, the stocker..............

Who didn't know that.

Sorry Dan couldn't resist.

[landtank]

Originally Posted by cruiserdan

The original blade is out of the question because high speed "tip flex" causes it to drag on the backside of the radiator.

Just install an aluminum radiator. It's a 2 row one and thinner by about a 1/4" on both sides. At least it looked it to me 3 weeks ago when I swapped out it with a brass one.

[sleeoffroad]

Originally Posted by cruiserdan

Here is an interesting foot-note to this whole deal...........

Turbo 80's do not seem to have heating issues.........Guess which fan blade they have..........

YUP, the stocker..............

They also have an intercooler

[cruiserdan]

Originally Posted by landtank

Just install an aluminum radiator. It's a 2 row one and thinner by about a 1/4" on both sides. At least it looked it to me 3 weeks ago when I swapped out it with a brass one.

My friend at TRD told me that the blade hits the alluminum radiator. Their test mule was a 97 and that was the one they tore the radiator up in.....

[cruiserdan]

Originally Posted by sleeoffroad

They also have an intercooler

Agreed.

[turbocruiser]

Originally Posted by cruiserdan

Here is an interesting foot-note to this whole deal...........

Turbo 80's do not seem to have heating issues.........Guess which fan blade they have..........
















YUP, the stocker..............

Yes, my rig runs with stock fan blade and stock (apparently rare silver colored) fan clutch, ... , NEVER have seen a temp on my extremely accurate aftermarket Greddy Gauge higher than 100 degrees Celsius! Dan and I were talking about this the other day and i am always amazed how high some of the rigs here run on temps. Seriously if i saw anything at all higher than 102 C I'd pull over right away, turn on the heaters and shut down seconds later.

Originally Posted by reffug

Who didn't know that.

Sorry Dan couldn't resist.

Raising hand proudly, "I knew that, I knew that!" Seriously, I always chuckle when I read the comments that the turbocharged rigs run hotter than the supercharged ones; so many experts here have verified that that is flatly wrong, and so has the real world reality of people who have turbos.

Originally Posted by sleeoffroad

They also have an intercooler

Right, as always, hey Christo I was wondering with all your experience here and around SA, have you ever experienced temps on turbocharged but non-intercooled vehicles??? I am wondering about how much cooler the intercooled vehicles run than the non-intercooled vehicles. From looking at the SAFARI site, it seems that some turbo but do not intercool, is this correct or am i reading wrong? Perhaps it is that some people add intercoolers but do not add turbos ... if that is that case, with all your experience, how much cooler would a stock vehicle with only an intercooler added run over a completely stock vehicle? Thanks.


Ohh, BTW,















TURBOS RULE!!!

[Rainy Day FZJ]

You can not intercool a naturally aspirated motor. Intercoolers are only for cooling compressed air. For example turbocharged suchas yours or supercharged rigs such as mine.

[Tools R Us]

Originally Posted by Rainy Day FZJ

You can not intercool a naturally aspirated motor. Intercoolers are only for cooling compressed air. For example turbocharged suchas yours or supercharged rigs such as mine.

You can intercool a naturally aspirated motor, but the results won't be worth it. Compressing air heats it, the intercooler is to remove some of that heat.

[Rainy Day FZJ]

I stand corrected, I guess that you can do anything that you want. It is just the desired effect would not be worth it. Now back to the thread at hand. Does anyone think that if there is not a fan blade that fits well, a electric dual fan setup would work ok? they are $ for the 5500 cfm models.

[LandCruiserPhil]

Welcome to AZ heat!

When the AZ sun is down I have a hard time going about 180 water temp even with evening ambient 95 degrees. In fact even with ambient temp 90 degrees at night pulling a 6% grade at 80mph+ I rarely reach 200 degrees water temp, EGT is a different story.

The Ron Davis Alm radiator is 1/2" thicker then the factory.

We can get the factory fan to clear the SC but we have not determined if it will hit the alm radiator at high RPM. Tools R Us has a BF lathe we will be able to mount the fan clutches and fans to for testing. Then we can determine what clutch mods work and how much the factory fan will flex.

We are also in search of black Asian factory fan clutch (used or new) for testing purposes. If you have one available we would like to look at it.

As Tools noted when the trucks are side by side the SC fan does not pull close to a factory fan. Presently I'm using a Hayden clutch that you cannot stop using the Robbie method.

Bottom line is that the SC fan will work well until ambient temp go above 100 degrees. At that point it does not matter how good your cooling system is because the SC fan does not work in AZ.

Side note in respect to a turbo intercooler. I bypassed the throttle body fuel heater on my SC'd 80. Did not change the cooling but did seem to give a little better throttle response.

[clarkrw3]

Side note in respect to a turbo intercooler. I bypassed the throttle body fuel heater on my SC'd 80. Did not change the cooling but did seem to give a little better throttle response.

this is a very popular mod to do on Supra TT's it only seems to be a problem on cold start up at very low ambiant temps.

[landtank]

How about trimming the blades of the original fan. I'd install the original fan, bend one of the blades to contact the rad surface, then using something 1/4" thick against the blade and the radiators surface trace a line and see how much would be removed. Maybe it's nothing more than the last bit of the tip and being plastic you might be accurate enough for it not to vibrate. Or maybe build a jig to accurately trim the blades.

even if it turned out to have a high rpm Vib, you could atleast maybe test the temps at idle to see if you are travelling the right road.

[mabrodis]

The obvious solution is to ditch the fan clutch altogether, make a custom spacer to space the factory OEM fan anywhere you want it and spin it full-speed with the engine all the time...heck you got a S/C, you got power to burn...and it would solve the fan issue..

[sleeoffroad]

Originally Posted by landtank

How about trimming the blades of the original fan. I'd install the original fan, bend one of the blades to contact the rad surface, then using something 1/4" thick against the blade and the radiators surface trace a line and see how much would be removed. Maybe it's nothing more than the last bit of the tip and being plastic you might be accurate enough for it not to vibrate. Or maybe build a jig to accurately trim the blades.

even if it turned out to have a high rpm Vib, you could atleast maybe test the temps at idle to see if you are travelling the right road.

After putting the fan through the 2nd radiator in Moab this year, I removed the shroud and also trimmed the tips of the fan. If you look at the shape of the blade, it has a straight edge and then the tip curves out. I just extended the straight edge and used a cutting disk to remove the leading edge. Gave an additiol 1/2"+ of clearance. I did not notice any vibrations on the fan.

[Tools R Us]

Trimming the blades is an option, by cutting them while spinning in the lathe we can get them pretty straight, but a factory fan that fit would be best. One of the things we want to find out is how much the blades flex at full RPM, how much clearance is needed to the radiator? It would suck to install the trimmed fan and have it eat the radiator!

[Landpimp]

I know this is agaist convential wisdom but.

I have installed 2 180deg OEM t-stats in 2F motors.......in both case the temps droped 10+ degs, this is measured with a Raytech in numerous spots. Both rigs had FULLY new cooling systems and new OEM 190(or whatever they are) t-stats. ALL I did was change to the 180 stat and the REAL temps droped by the same amount. Also the guage needs lower, not like I trust that.

I KNOW this is not how its suppose to work......but it has worked for me on 2 cruisers. I also was not trying to cure an overheating issue, i just wanted to run at a bit lower temps.

Just tossing it out there for ya all.

John

[Tools R Us]

Originally Posted by mabrodis

The obvious solution is to ditch the fan clutch altogether, make a custom spacer to space the factory OEM fan anywhere you want it and spin it full-speed with the engine all the time...heck you got a S/C, you got power to burn...and it would solve the fan issue..

The clutch is not the issue, the fan is too thick, won't fit between the supercharger belt and radiator. The OEM fan is not made to run at full RPM, locking it up = expensive shrapnel!

[sleeoffroad]

Originally Posted by Tools R Us

Trimming the blades is an option, by cutting them while spinning in the lathe we can get them pretty straight, but a factory fan that fit would be best. One of the things we want to find out is how much the blades flex at full RPM, how much clearance is needed to the radiator? It would suck to install the trimmed fan and have it eat the radiator!

It is not only the blades that flex, it is also the body that moves on the body mounts when you drop it off a ledge. Or even when you do recovery and you yank someone on a tow strap. It is amazing how much the body can move.

[Tools R Us]

Originally Posted by Landpimp

I know this is agaist convential wisdom but.

I have installed 2 180deg OEM t-stats in 2F motors.......in both case the temps droped 10+ degs, this is measured with a Raytech in numerous spots. Both rigs had FULLY new cooling systems and new OEM 190(or whatever they are) t-stats. ALL I did was change to the 180 stat and the REAL temps droped by the same amount. Also the guage needs lower, not like I trust that.
John

Phil's rig has a TRD 170 degree? stat in good working condition.

[landtank]

I personally think that trimming the original fan down is a better option than finding one to fit. I just think that the odds are that you're not going to find a fan off the shelf that would fit as well as a custom one. I'd also hope that the one that was included with the SC kits was the best avaiable replacement and not just the easiest one.

[Tools R Us]

Originally Posted by sleeoffroad

It is not only the blades that flex, it is also the body that moves on the body mounts when you drop it off a ledge. Or even when you do recovery and you yank someone on a tow strap. It is amazing how much the body can move.

Yep, the motor moves around a bunch too. How much clearance do you have to the radiator? Is yours a stock setup? Do you think the body lift has something to do with it or just the extreme beating you give it?

[Tools R Us]

Originally Posted by landtank

I'd also hope that the one that was included with the SC kits was the best avaiable replacement and not just the easiest one.

It was probably the best available replacement when the kit was designed, what in the mid nineties? There maybe better options now?

[sleeoffroad]

I have 1.75" between the tips of the blades and the core. This is with a 3 row oem 93 radiator. I do think the body lift makes the movement worse. The reason I kept killing the radiators is that the tip of the fan got caught between the shroud and the bottom of the radiator. It then bent in and cut open the tubes.

You can also make a donut ring (1.5" or so) out of sheet metal and install it on the radiator in front of the fan. This will help if the fan ever did touch down on the radiator.

[cruiserdan]

Originally Posted by Tools R Us

Trimming the blades is an option, by cutting them while spinning in the lathe we can get them pretty straight, but a factory fan that fit would be best. One of the things we want to find out is how much the blades flex at full RPM, how much clearance is needed to the radiator? It would suck to install the trimmed fan and have it eat the radiator!

Aparently the blades deflect enough to contact the aluminum radiator and hit it hard enough to chew the radiator up.

As we speak I have two clutches side-by-side in the bench. One with a stock blade on it and one with a ringed blade. The very tips of the stock blade are about 1/8 of an inch taller than the ring on the other fan.

In my vehicle there is 1 and 1/16 of an inch clearance between the ring of the blade and the back of the radiator core (brass three row type).

This tells me that the stock blade tips flex furthrer than that. The spacer is about 3/4 of an inch thick. This tells me that the blade flexes more than an inch and a sixteenth but less than an inch and thirteen sixteenths.

Tools,

You need to spin up a stock blade and see if you can measure about how much it flexes. Then cut the tips and see what you get. We will need to get a blade with less flex.

The 94-5 3.0 V6 blade is similar to the ringed fan but without the ring. The blades are shorter than the original fan and as such they may not flex out as far under load. I gotta think that even though the diameter is smaller than stock it would still pull more air than the ringed blade due to the vortex.

D-

[landtank]

I like the donut thought, or even bend up a hoop out of 1/4" round stock and solder it right to the face of the radiator.