AC Guages/Windows Clustermuck

[reffug]

Ok stats.....................

93 FZJ80
185K on the clock
All fluids synthetic and maintained by an anal wierdo

Last night while taking my wife and kiddies to the county fair I heard a whoosh under the hood that lasted for 1.5 to 2 seconds next thing I know this is no AC, no fan blowing lights are out in the temp control area. As I start scanning the dash I notice I have lost all guages except fuel as well. Also attempted to roll up windows and don't have those either. Have already bounced this off one board member and have gotten several helpful suggestions and have checked one of those before I lost daylight and I am not missing any belts so that is not the problem. Kinda thinking as this individual did that possibly the freon dumped and froze/burnt a wiriing harness somewhere in the rig that is killing all the guages and the like. Am going out this morning to start troubleshooting the obvious but this one is quite possibly going to be out of my arena of knowledge and ability so I need some of you rocket scientists out there to stop worrying about Discovery and guide me in the right direction.

It was only 100 degrees with the heat index so needless to say I turned around went home and got the Honda to take the family to the fair with. It is impossible to enjoy an event like that with your kids when all you can think and mumble to yourself about is your truck. Anyway will be checking back in off and on all day so any guidance would be appreciated fella's.

Oh footnote I have no speedometer as well.

[IdahoDoug]

The whoosh could simply have been the freon going from properly circulating through the heat exchanger in your dash (pulls heat out of interior air and turns into a gas while it does) and then abruptly losing pressure when the compressor stopped doing its thing in mid-cycle. It normally cycles based on pressure and temp of the freon, but stopping in mid cycle may cause a wierd sound you're not used to hearing that may not indicate anything ominous as to the A/C system.

As to what caused your compressor to shut down along with the other stuff you mention - gonna be an electrical issue. I doubt all these things would be on a fusible link (pain), but would expect so widespread an area to be on a conventional circuit. Check 'em. Got an FSM, or do I have to get up from the couch where I'm watching Lance and friends and pounding an espresso at an early hour out here...?


DougM

[reffug]

Originally Posted by IdahoDoug

Check 'em. Got an FSM, or do I have to get up from the couch where I'm watching Lance and friends and pounding an espresso at an early hour out here...?


DougM

Got the FSM so keep your rear on the couch Doug. Pulled the guages fuse and it is blown but not the AC fuse. Gonna replace the fuse and go from there. Probably next step after that I will pull the battery cables and allow the computer to reset and see what happens.

[reffug]

OK replaced guages fuse and fired up truck. Had everything back for about 3 seconds before blowing that fuse. Replaced again and fired truck back up this time w/o the AC running and had everything back and the fuse held until I hit the AC switch at which point I lost everything again. Going to look through the FSM now and ponder a little. If anybody has a shortcut or already knows something I don't please chime in.

[IdahoDoug]

Ah, Lance just crossed the line and defended his lead well, so I'm about to get off my a@@ and go clean the garage and detail the 97 for my wifey. Let me know how it goes - I'll check in from time to time. Have you done anything crazy like wash your engine lately? Any other work in the engine bay?

DougM

[reffug]

Originally Posted by IdahoDoug

Let me know how it goes - I'll check in from time to time. Have you done anything crazy like wash your engine lately? Any other work in the engine bay?

DougM

No nothing like that. Although since CMCC I do need to wash the engine bay and was going to do that this very weekend until this happened. Looking through the FSM I'm seeing but not seeing how the guage fuse can be blown by the AC unit - course reading electrical schematics was never my strongest point. I had forgotten how much I hate electrical problems.

[e9999]

if you turn the A/C on and it blows a fuse, besides a short someplace, could also mean an overdraw of current, right? So that could mean something mechanical frozen/stuck/rubbing? Compressor or clutch? Maybe remove the A/C belt, and then turn a/c on and see if it blows. If so, then, it's purely electrical?

edit: no, this is stupid. I was thinking electric motors but the comp and clutch don't pull in elec power to run, so forget those... could be fan maybe though?

[reffug]

OK update. e hadn't seen your post so havn't tried that yet but it might be an idea. I just washed the engine bay (while running) as someone suggested to me that the ground for the compressor might have gotten frayed or be damaged by mud/rock etc from CMCC. After that I did try a new fuse and same scenario - wham bam blew. Oh Turbo your right the tolerances on those two wires compared to what they are run near is scary, also Turbo please start posting your thoughts up here as well as sharing them with me as they are damn helpful to others as well as myself. So here is the real conundrum, between me, IDdoug, and Turbo I kinda figure I have a ground out problem effecting the guage circuit of the rig, the windows, and god knows what else. So after this last little experiment I figure WTH and plug a 15 amp fuse into the guage slot where a 10 is what is Toyota recommended and what do you know the bastard held and everything is working fine. Course only let the rig run for about 2 minutes before shutting it down and scratching my head. If it is a ground out problem then the size of the fuse really shouldn't matter it should blow regardless, correct? Need help fella's I was hoping to drive this byatch 1300 miles at the end of this week for a wheeling trip with a few other tards and taking the whole family. Can't do it w/o AC and feeling secure - by myself is one thing but w/ 2 little kids the whole equation changes.

[Junk]

Should have sold that pos and bought the shortbus.

[reffug]

Thank you junkster your insight as always enlightening and appreciated. Ok drove the rig tonight to dinner cause I wanted to see how it reacted under actual road stress with the 15 amp fuse in, and after about 30 miles I once again lost the AC and about 30 seconds later the guages. Got to the restaurant and checked and had blown the 15 amp fuse. After dinner replaced the fuse and started home and noticed that now even with the guages I have no AC at all. This just keeps getting more perplexing and vexing at the same time. Anyway going to bed and gonna start fresh again tomorrow hopefully with a clear head towards the problem.

[Klunky Chris]

just want to caution you against running it at all with a higher amp fuse in it.
the LAST thing you want is melted wires somewhere you can't see.......

a 5 amp difference can do this.

....how do I know you ask.....

sorry I don't have fresh insight though.

good luck!

[reffug]

Originally Posted by Klunky Chris

just want to caution you against running it at all with a higher amp fuse in it.
the LAST thing you want is melted wires somewhere you can't see.......

a 5 amp difference can do this.

Yaa kinda figured that and went ahead and took the 15 out. Still not sure what direction to go in now.

[Junk]

Pull that pos turbo and put a blower in, I'm sure it will help somehow

I'm still betting ground especially with some prev. owner mod.

[reffug]

Originally Posted by Junk

Pull that pos turbo and put a blower in, I'm sure it will help somehow

How is less horsepower and more problems gonna help.

[Klunky Chris]

because it makes you sell it and buy a simple 45 pickup!

[reffug]

Originally Posted by Klunky Chris

because it makes you sell it and buy a simple 45 pickup!

That might be true of someone with less intestinal fortitude than myself.

But it taint never gonna happen. I'm thinking ground out as previously mentioned but getting no where with all my checking around and looking. This is really starting to get frustrating.

[cruiserdan]

Possibly the compressor or clutch. The blown gauge fuse sounds like a result to me as opposed to a cause. The compressor may be trying to lock up.

[reffug]

Update and I'm sure to know one's suprise C-Dan wins the prize.

Fuse is being blown by strain of burnt out clutch, which was caused by compressor which is locking upon occasion and on its last legs.

Bottom line new compressor, new clutch, new shims, new dryer, etc all on 1993 R-12 system which in lamens terms = one pissed off reffug.

[concretejungle]

Damnit, Cdan wins again.

[turbocruiser]

Shoot, wish it was easier than that man. As offered, my freon is yours if you need it.

[dmc]

yep i'm bumping two very old threads. that's what i get for being impatient with my searches. but hell cut me some slack i'm in huaraz, peru poaching wifi from a hotel.

how does one test the a/c clutch? and if this is the source what is the easiest way to bypass it until i can get to a major city. pull the belt?

[CJF]

Originally Posted by dmc

yep i'm bumping two very old threads. that's what i get for being impatient with my searches. but hell cut me some slack i'm in huaraz, peru poaching wifi from a hotel.

how does one test the a/c clutch? and if this is the source what is the easiest way to bypass it until i can get to a major city. pull the belt?

Definitely ok to just pull the belt.

As for the clutch: There's a very simple on-board resistence test you can do on it.

Also, a visual inspection can easily determine if you have any worn/seized bearing issues: Just loosen the belt and check for play in all the clutch/compressor shaft components

[dmc]

figured it out. much easier than the a/c clutch...

http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...ml#post3024075

[CJF]

Originally Posted by dmc

figured it out. much easier than the a/c clutch...

http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...ml#post3024075

Originally Posted by dmc

So some of you may have noticed that I revived two very old threads earlier today. Last night after taking a leak I hopped back in my truck only to find a blown fuse. i figured no big deal and instead of digging out my parts i pulled the one from my a/c and drove to my hotel.

i woke up today, wandered the markets of Huaraz and picked up my laundry. came back to the hotel hopped in my truck and blew another fuse. thought it was odd and went to get gas. it happened again after getting gas. so i came back to the hotel, poached wireless and did my search. after realizing i could be anywhere from 5 mins to many hours trying to figure out the problem i checked back into the hotel. parked the truck so i could work on it and set out to track down some fuses. there is a toyota dealer in the town and i bought ALL of their 10 amp fuses. 6 total. yep 6. with my stash in my car that gave me about 15 to trouble shoot.

back at the hotel i broke out my fsm (thanks trunk monkey) and stared at the wiring diagram only to realize i was WAY over my head. a call to a friend who works for toyota resulted in a conversation and email of a list of circuits/parts connected to the gauge fuse and i set about going through each one. I got lucky. a/c didn't trip it. auto climate control, nope. fan/recirc/temp nothing. those were the items i was using the when it happened. cdl, abs, high/low, 2nd start, pwr button. still good. i tried all while starting the vehicle because that is when i noticed the fuses blowing. or so i thought. next up i tried putting it in gear. bingo blown fuse. after a series of tests and different configurations i discerned that putting it into reverse was killing the fuse. so options were back up lights, including one on my bumper, the harness from the switch back and the tranny switch itself.

I started with the easy one. For once in my life I made a proper decision in regards to fabrication. when i made my swing out i used t-taps for my license plate and back up lights so if i needed to remove the carrier the wiring would be a simple disconnect. i pull the t-tap for the back up light, put in a new fuse and ran through reverse about 20 times. no blown fuse. i'm 99.9% sure i found and isolated the problem. near the light itself the wire had come out of the flex loom and had been rubbing on the bumper, enough to expose the wire and short the circuit.

I can't tell you how relieved I am to have found the issue so quickly. electrical bugs are NOT my strength and sometimes trouble shooting them requires two people to isolate them. IE trying locking your rear diff by yourself and checking the motor for a signal on the rear diff. yep tried that once in my taco. anyway, the prospect of a MAJOR electrical gremlin or trying to source the parts for my a/c clutch were not something i was looking forward to. here is a partial list of items affected by a blown gauge cluster fuse. biggest one in my mind is speed sensor. pretty much can't drive without a speed sensor. the tranny has no idea where it should be.

A/C pressure switch- under the hood on the a/c high pressure line ABS Actuator ABS Relay ABS ECU A/C ECU (amplifier) Air inlet motor Air vent mode control motor Brake fluid level switch Blower relay Seat belt buckle switch CDL motor CDL light CDL relay Combination meter Cruise control ECU Check engine light Seat belt light Radio cooling fan DLC Connector (OBD II port) Diff lock ECU Door lock control relay Engine ECU Transmission pattern select switch (power/2nd start) Front diff lock switch Fuel level sender Heater control switch A/C switch Oil level switch Oil pressure sender O/D switch Park/Neutral switch Parking brake switch Rear heater switch Rear window defogger switch Reverse lights Rear diff lock position switch Seat belt warning relay Transfer L4 position switch Transfer neutral position switch Trailer wiring converter harness Vehicle speed sensor Coolant temp sensor Defog relay Heater relay Power relay

so back in my hotel. off to Lima in the morning.
dmc

Man, you are one long-winded dude.

Glad it worked out,

Curtis

Oh, and FWIW, I don't think the tranny gives a sh*t about the speed sensor: "here is a partial list of items affected by a blown gauge cluster fuse. biggest one in my mind is speed sensor. pretty much can't drive without a speed sensor. the tranny has no idea where it should be."

[dmc]

Originally Posted by CJF

Man, you are one long-winded dude.

Glad it worked out,

Curtis

Oh, and FWIW, I don't think the tranny gives a sh*t about the speed sensor: "here is a partial list of items affected by a blown gauge cluster fuse. biggest one in my mind is speed sensor. pretty much can't drive without a speed sensor. the tranny has no idea where it should be."

yes i know. extremely long winded. i tend to just type and not think a whole lot. it's a bad habit. i actually drove a bit last night without a gage fuse and the tranny needs the speeds sensor. it did not shift without the gauges working. just stays in the same gear all the time. won't even manually shift. i tried. would not downshift into L at all. perhaps it's different for earlier models that have their own separate ecu. the one thing i know is i'm back running again.

and still long winded
dmc

[CJF]

Originally Posted by dmc

i actually drove a bit last night without a gage fuse and the tranny needs the speeds sensor. it did not shift without the gauges working. just stays in the same gear all the time. won't even manually shift. i tried.

Whoa; crazy!

Could you tell what gear it was in?

Anyway, again, glad you got it worked out so quickly and easily. Plus you still get to use your A/C: Is it hot down there?

Cheers,

Curtis