Green coolant vs. Red coolant

[atijerino]

What is the consensus among the list members about using green vs. red antifreeze/coolant?
My cruiser had green coolant when I got it and I have it on my mind to change it, but not sure what is the best to use.
Any relation between the type of coolant used and the PHH?

Thanks,

[Junk]

Should use only Toyota Red. It's been reported that combining the standard green with it will cause sludging.

[NorCalDoug]

Mine has the red stuff in it. I plan on flushing it and replacing with more red.

However, I do know that some here do use green. You shouldn't have a problem with the green stuff...AS LONG AS you remove ALL the red stuff first.

The same rule would apply going the opposite direction. If you want to replace green with red, make sure all the old stuff is gone.

As Junk said, mixing Red and Green is reported to result in a bad case of sludge.

[beno]

I know that IdahoDoug's recent posts about working on his brother-in-law's rig has talked about what he found when he went into the truck with 273K miles and found that he was using green and things looked pretty good for a truck that wasn't that well maintained.

Nonetheless, I spring for the Red to still with what Uncle Toy recommended. They are particular afterall and these are out babies (or bitches... )

Best.
-onur
Akron, OH

[miked]

i've heard that using anything other than OEM parts and supplies will cause you to lose all control and vear into a ditch. this has happened to me, but i'm not sure if it was the anti-freeze or the tires.

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by atijerino

Any relation between the type of coolant used and the PHH?

Thanks,

Use a good quality coolant; Toyota Red or Prestone green are the 2 most common that are mentioned here. Do not mix. Flush, flush, flush whether you are swapping or just replacing. Do NOT use any of the "long-life Dexcool" types.

The type of coolant used does not appear to have any effect on the life of the PHH.

-B-

[peebles24]

After three years working in a garage I can tell you the red stuff ain't worth a d@mn. If it already has green stick with it. If it has red and you want green you have to do an extremely good flush, cause if you mix the two you will have slime for antifreeze. Just my .02 cents, but I'll never use the red in a vehicle that doesn't have a factory warranty in effect, that says it has to have it.

[IdahoDoug]

One of the most cogent arguments I found upon researching this issue was an auto trade rag that basically said use the coolant that was in existence when your car was built. They pointed out that newer formulations from the coolant companies are designed around newer materials, but these formulations may not optimize the life of older systems. Or they may even attack components used in older cars. They went quite far in proving their point on this, explaining how brass and copper radiators have specific galvanic properties which match the characteristics of older coolant formulations such as Prestone Green which has been around in one form or another for decades. They also provided factual evidence of the long life orange DexCool formulations actually attacking the metals and seals used in older engines and some new ones (unfortunately for GM, this included some of their new cars. And GM helped develop the Dex!).

Anyhow, the way I apply it to our 80s is to either use the Toyota Red as #1 choice because for sure it is compatible, or use Prestone traditional Green because it was around when the 80's engine was developed. My bro in law has had this in his for around the last 200,000 miles and as mentioned it was casually maintained and when I pulled the radiator out (not for sludge/blockage cooling issues, but simply because the O rings had finally given up at 288,000 miles) the orifices appeared to have only a bit of deposits I would not give the slightest thought about. In fact, I'm going to go glance at my original 93 rad's orifices for comparison.

My 93 with half the miles has about the same bit of deposits in the slits you can see with the cap removed. Just for grins, I looked into the brand new Toyota rad in the 97 and it looked so good I did in fact grin.

The Toyota Red is expensive at $15 a gallon my price but buying $30 worth of coolant every other year seems insignificant when I'm filling the tank weekly for $50 to get long term engine protection.

DougM

[beno]

Originally Posted by IdahoDoug

The Toyota Red is expensive at $15 a gallon my price but buying $30 worth of coolant every other year seems insignificant when I'm filling the tank weekly for $50 to get long term engine protection.

DougM

The best argument I know of for OEM. Thanks for the clarification Doug.

Best.
-onur
Akron, OH

[IdahoDoug]

Peebles,

I agree with the proper and complete flush comment. However, if you have people with you in a garage who are professional mechanics and they have trouble fully flushing a cooling system until it's pure clear water then I gotta wonder about some of the other things they're having trouble with. To declare Toyota Red crap because it doesn't mix well is a bit of a stretch. As a consumer, I'd be furious to find I trusted a mechanic to flush my cooling system and now have sludging because they didn't. I don't mean to offend anyone who works at your shop, but c'mon - how hard is it to jam a garden hose first in the radiator for 5 minutes on full, then backflush through the heater cores for another 5 minutes before refilling?

DougM

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by atijerino

What is the consensus among the list members about using green vs. red antifreeze/coolant?
Thanks,

Toyota red does not use silicates and green does. Toyota's seals are designed to be used with red only.... no silicates. Mixing the two can cause the antifreeze to gel.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Toyota red does not use silicates and green does. Toyota's seals are designed to be used with red only.... no silicates...

No where in any Toyota service or owner docs that I have read state that there is any seal compatability issues with Fzj80 Land cruisers and normal silicate containing anti freeze. Nor have I heard of anybody reporting coolant leakage due to premature seal failure.

Which seals do you believe to be harmed by silicates as normally found in plain vanilla Prestone antifreeze? Why do you think the seals are designed only to be used with no silicate antifreeze? Have you any documents from Toyota stating to not use silicate containing antifreeze?

[peebles24]

Idaho doug,

I have never worked with the Toyota Red, (one of the reasons I bought a Toyota because in my years at the shop I have only worked on maybe 3 toyotas) so I know nothing about it. I was talking about the extended life antifreeze such as Dex cool, which I have seen a ton of troubles with. I don't believe that I said anything about us having a problem with getting a good flush, but I have had numerous customers who have mixed and it's not a pretty site. Look at the GM 3100's and 3400's intake gaskets going out as low as 37,000 miles from my experiance, probably would see them with less miles than that if I had ever worked at a dealership. Anyway to much soapbox. I am not a fan of extended life antifreeze's, they don't extend life from what I've seen, green is a ton better. Toyota Red may be better than the other stuff.

Chad

[cruiserdan]

Originally Posted by peebles24

After three years working in a garage I can tell you the red stuff ain't worth a d@mn. If it already has green stick with it. If it has red and you want green you have to do an extremely good flush, cause if you mix the two you will have slime for antifreeze. Just my .02 cents, but I'll never use the red in a vehicle that doesn't have a factory warranty in effect, that says it has to have it.

After only 26 years in the car business I respectfully disagree with you.

I use ONLY OEM Toyota coolant, period.

[silvercrusher]

Is it not true that toyota red is actually a regular green coolant that has been died red just to make you think you are getting something special. With all the vehicles on the road using green do you really think it is bad. As for the seals and such toyota does not use anything "special" to make them that others don't so it really comes down to personnel preference. Unless of course you are talking about wet lined diesel engines then its a whole new issue.

Long life antifreeze is bull shit you have to change the coolant at least every 2 years to avoid creating an acidic environment that will eat your seals and attack metals. Even red when left long enough will become acidic.

[cruiserdan]

Toyota red IS NOT dyed green my friend. There are some subtile differences in the chemical makeup. I do not have MSDS's on hand at home but I can asure you that they are not the same. They DO have similar properties though.

D-

[Junk]

Originally Posted by peebles24

After three years working in a garage I can tell you the red stuff ain't worth a d@mn.

This is pretty funny when followed up later with the below post.

Originally Posted by peebles24

I have never worked with the Toyota Red, (one of the reasons I bought a Toyota because in my years at the shop I have only worked on maybe 3 toyotas) so I know nothing about it.

Me thinks we are in the twilight zone.

I'll stick with Toyota red thanks and will continue to flush every year.

[Beowulf]

(Quotes from old threads with minor tweaks)

Originally Posted by cruiserdan

Edited to correct Ethylene Glycol (107-21-1) for Zerex..........D-

OK, I have a bottle of Toyota red and a bottle of Zerex in front of me.

The toyota label reads as follows:
Ethylene Glycol (107-21-1),
Diethylene Glycol (111-46-6),
Distilled Water (7732-18-5),
Organic Acid Salt (532-32-1),
Hydrated Inorganic Salt (1310-58-3).

The Zerex label reads as follows:
Ethylene Glycol (107-21-1),
Diethylene Glycol (111-46-6),
Dipotassium Phosphate (7758-11-4),
Distilled Water (7732-18-5),
Corrosion Inhibitors,
Silicone Silicate,
Defoamers,
and dyes.

Not quite sure what all of that means, but it is not the same stuff.

D-

Originally Posted by Gumby

I have some Peak Extended life here in front of me I bought for a intake gasket job on a 99 GMC. IT says it is Silicate free, Nitrate free, Phosphate free and Borate free.

Ingredients:
Ethylene GLycol (107-21-1)
Diethyline Glycol ( 111-46-6)
Water
Sodium Benzoate (532-32-1)

Just for more info. I don't use the stuff personally.

-B-

[LX_TREME]

I bought the LX brand new with 0 mileage and ALWAYS use the red Toyota coolant and until now 8 years, the FZ never had the problem with it, no leaks, no overheat... etc, and one more thing yes I hadn't replaced head gasket, water pump , radiator and hoses.
But one thing for sure, I think im way too obsesses with my 80's every time I flushed and refill the radiator I've always mixed the Toyota Red with 2 gallons of drinking water (YES not tap water) and 2 bottles of red line water wetter.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by Rich

No where in any Toyota service or owner docs that I have read state that there is any seal compatability issues with Fzj80 Land cruisers and normal silicate containing anti freeze. Nor have I heard of anybody reporting coolant leakage due to premature seal failure.

Which seals do you believe to be harmed by silicates as normally found in plain vanilla Prestone antifreeze? Why do you think the seals are designed only to be used with no silicate antifreeze? Have you any documents from Toyota stating to not use silicate containing antifreeze?

Here is how Toyota describes their red coolant:

"Genuine Toyota Long Life Antifreeze Coolant, with its distinctive red appearance, provides maximum protection without the use of harmful silicates. This formula is extremely durable and because of its compatibility with non-metallic materials, it helps extend the life of water pump seals.

Will not clog radiators from silicone "gelling."
Will not corrode aluminum surfaces like coolants that contain borate.
Helps protect water pump seals. "

Nuff said.

[cruiserdan]

"Silicone Silicate" is obviously missing from the ingredient listing for Toyota red.

D-

[Junk]

Too bad this is not marked as a FAQ - well, it is now.

[cruiserdan]

Originally Posted by atijerino

Any relation between the type of coolant used and the PHH?

To answer this yet unanswered question, no. The PHH is going to take a shit sometime after 100k miles or 10 years no matter what you do. The best course of action is to replace it unless you know for a fact that it has already been done. I will further suggest that if, for any reason, the transmission is removed replace the PHH before the transmission is reinstalled. This opportunity, short of engine removall, is the best time to change that hose.

D-

[Rich]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Here is how Toyota describes their red coolant:

"Genuine Toyota Long Life Antifreeze Coolant, with its distinctive red appearance, provides maximum protection without the use of harmful silicates. This formula is extremely durable and because of its compatibility with non-metallic materials, it helps extend the life of water pump seals.

Will not clog radiators from silicone "gelling."
Will not corrode aluminum surfaces like coolants that contain borate.
Helps protect water pump seals. "

Nuff said.

So nothing above states or supports that the waterpump seal is not designed for silicate containing antifreeze, right?

[cruiserdan]

Originally Posted by Rich

So nothing above states or supports that the waterpump seal is not designed for silicate containing antifreeze, right?

Of course that specific statement is not made. However silicone silicate is specifically omitted from OEM coolant blends.
Draw your own conclusions.

D-

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by cruiserdan

To answer this yet unanswered question, no. The PHH is going to take a $#!* sometime after 100k miles or 10 years no matter what you do.

Post Whore,
Read #6 and quit padding.
-B-

[Jim_Chow]