[Romer]

Christo and I were talking at Moab and he told me the ARB load specs for the Med and Heavy springs are the same, its just the heavies are longer. He said it mighty be a typo, but thats what the specs say. I was talking to him about changing the springs when I get a winch. I sent ARB an e-mail with the following question:

I currently have your medium lift springs on my 80 series Land Cruiser. I was going to switch to Heavies when I install a winch on my ARB. Looking at the two specifications, they seem to have the same load specs, but the Heavies are just longer. Can you confirm this. Why wouldn't a 1 inch spacer added to your medium springs give me the same performance?

This is their response:

You are exactly correct. The OME850 and OME851 have an identical spring rate, however the OME851 is 20mm taller than the OME850.

We offer 10mm polyurethane spacers than can be used on top of the coils for additional height. The Aussies refer to these as trim packers.

Our suspension book says use a maximum of 2 trim packers per coil. You could also use a 1" spacer to get the same result.

I know Nakman took this approach, but someone here (can't remember who) told me not to because of the load rating. Well, the load rating is the same.

[brent]

Good to know, thanks for the leg work

[e9999]

spring rate meaning absolute deflection length per unit weight, I guess?

but Christo's site says that both med and heavies give the same lift...

and how do the Js figure in this picture then?

(and btw, why can't I find any good tech info on the arbusa.com site... ?)

[phatairman]

Long day at the office and not thinking correctly, so exactly why would this be bad? Castor correction would be 20 MM off?

[phatairman]

So the medium spring (851) is exactly 20 MM taller than the heavy spring (850). Thus is the need for the spacers?

Brain starting to work.....

Fame suit on.

[NorCalDoug]

Originally Posted by phatairman

So the medium spring (851) is exactly 20 MM taller than the heavy spring (850). Thus is the need for the spacers?

Brain starting to work.....

Fame suit on.

no, that's backwards.
Heavy springs are 851
Medium springs are 850.

To "convert" med. to hvy add 1" spacers or 2 10mm trim packers.

[Fochdog]

Originally Posted by NorCalDoug

no, that's backwards.
Heavy springs are 851
Medium springs are 850.

NorCalDoug... you running medium fronts and heavy rears from your sig.

the other backwards...

Mediums are 851. Heavys are 850 and are 20mm taller then the 851.

[phatairman]

Originally Posted by NorCalDoug

no, that's backwards.

I got this from Slee's site -->

2.5" OME Lift
Heavy Load
Part #: ARB1001

Consist of:
2 x OME 850 Front Coil Springs
2 x OME 863 Rear Coil Springs


So the 850s are the heavy springs, no?

[Romer]

850's are the heavies and they are just longer Christo gets the kudos here because he said he noticed it. I just followed up with ARB. Your right, the ARB site sucks, thats why I e-mailed them.

So I guess if your installing the springs for the first time and have a heavey load, go with the heavies. If you have med springs and add a heavey load, just add spacers.

[e9999]

Originally Posted by Romer

850's are the heavies and they are just longer Christo gets the kudos here because he said he noticed it. I just followed up with ARB. Your right, the ARB site sucks, thats why I e-mailed them.

So I guess if your installing the springs for the first time and have a heavey load, go with the heavies. If you have med springs and add a heavey load, just add spacers.

but wait, if the heavies are just longer with the same spring rate, would that not mean that they aren't any better for a heavier load, dynamics wise, and that they will just keep things higher (which may not be bad, but perhaps not enough)?

[semlin]

interesting. i was either the guy or one of the guys who assumed packers/spacers would diminish performance compared to longer heavy springs. In my mind it is still true although the advantage may be smaller than i thought if the load rating is idnetical. to take an extreme example, surely a spring half as long with the same load rating would not perform as well dynamically as the longer spring. therefore the shorter medium spring will not perform quite as well as the heavy even with the same load. the difference may or may not be discernible.

here is a question. I believe people have found the ride on the heavies to be stiffer and harsher with insufficient weight. christo leans against the heavies unless you have a winch. this doesn't make sense if the load rating is the same. have people found the same thing using spacers with no winch/or arb?

[e9999]

went and had a look at the australian ARB site. Just as lamea$$ as the USA one... sheesh... If you go under "catalogue" then USA then look left you'll see a small mention of vehicle specific info. There is a pdf file for the 80 but with very little info. However, this is what it says:

---------
Model Location Description Type Lift Quantity Part No.
80 Series Front Stock/Light Load (0-110lbs) Spring 2.0" 2 OME851
Shock 2 *N73/N70
80 Series Front Heavy Load (110-250lbs) Spring 2.0" 2 OME850
Shock 2 N73
------------

so it shows a difference in weight between the 851 and 850, but the same lift. I take that to mean that the heavy 850 will provide 2" of lift *after* it's been loaded with the 110-250 lbs...

They also mention the 850J but did not include the lift or length for those... sheesh...

[phatairman]

Originally Posted by Romer

however the OME851 is 20mm taller than the OME850.

Originally Posted by Romer

850's are the heavies and they are just longer.

Romer- so are the 850's longer or the 851's?

[MoJ]

Originally Posted by e9999

spring rate meaning absolute deflection length per unit weight, I guess?

Spring rate definition:

Amount of force required to compress the coil spring a given distance, generally 1-inch (US).

For every inch of spring compression, the spring pressure increases by the
specified rate, i.e. 1 inch = 300 pounds, 2" = 600 pounds for the 300 pound
rated spring.

This is assuming a constant rate spring. Of course spring rates can be variable (non-linear) as well, a characteristic created by the changes in the geometry of the coil such as coil pitch (angle of the coil turns) or barrel diameter.

So, it would be possible for two springs to have the same spring rate during the first 1-inch of compression/load but have different spring rate characteristics as the load is increased.

Not sure if OME just lists the rate for the initial 1-inch or an average across the spring as IIRC the OME are variable rate (which would give the ability to soften ride but still stand up to a load or reduce corner lean when pressed).

[Romer]

Originally Posted by phatairman

Romer- so are the 850's longer or the 851's?

Sorry, I see I got it backwards in a follow on. The Heavies are longer than the mediums. I won't vouch for which is what part number. I thought the Heavies were 850's, but the e-mail from ARB shows them to be 851's. Other sites show them to be 850's. I think he got it backwards in his reply.

So lets just say the Heavies are longer than the Mediums

[Romer]

I just sent the ARB guy the following message, I'll post his response:

Just want to make sure, the 850's are the heavies and are 20mm longer, right?

Also, is the listed spring rate for the initial 1-inch or an average across the spring as IIRC the OME are variable rate

Do you have any test data to show the Medium Springs with a 1" spacer vs. a Heavy Spring performance? Load is with an ARB Bumper Winch and Sliders.

[MaddBaggins]

If the heavies are longer that would explain why my front driveshaft rubbed my swaybar at full droop. I have the heavy lift but don't have any heavy armor. I fabbed up some spacers last night to fix that problem. I was going to post a link to that thread but couldn't figure out how to add a thread link.

[Kalawang]

Romer,


I want to thank you for clarifying a mystery for me.

I've long been wondering why some spring sets come with taller fronts than others.

Personally, I would prefer the longer fronts as they don't require spacers and the rear still comes out an inch or so taller than the front so carrying a load is no big deal. However, that's just me. Others might prefer the even set because their shocks won't be so very extended and it could save them the need for additional expenditures.


Kalawang

[shocker]

Originally Posted by e9999

but Christo's site says that both med and heavies give the same lift...

and how do the Js figure in this picture then?

(and btw, why can't I find any good tech info on the arbusa.com site... ?)

All these springs probably lift the vehicle their stated height if you have the weight on your cruiser that they are rated for. In other words, add 200 - 300 lbs. to the back of a cruiser with heavy springs and it will probably sit at the same height as the mediums without the extra weight.

J spings would sit an inch higher than the heavies with the same weight.

[NorCalDoug]

Originally Posted by Fochdog

NorCalDoug... you running medium fronts and heavy rears from your sig.

the other backwards...

Mediums are 851. Heavys are 850 and are 20mm taller then the 851.

Nope, you're right. I crossed up my numbers like Romer did.

[Romer]

Originally Posted by NorCalDoug

Nope, you're right. I crossed up my numbers like Romer did.

At least your in good company

[Biff]

Well this is good to know, I was just about to swap my med. OME for Heavy OME. After adding an ARB, rear Hanna, and sliders I'm looking kinda droopy.

[Romer]

I received a response back from ARB (At least they are quick)

Sorry for the confusion. You are correct.

OME851 light load

OME850 heavy load (20mm taller than OME851)

Our Land cruiser coils have a linear rate-the spring rate is constant during all stages of coil compression.

We do not have any data regarding the medium spring with spacer versus the heavier spring.

Edit May 2006 Two tables I develepoed from info on Slle and Cruiseroutfitters sites as part of the new FAQ I am doing. Similar to lots of data posted here on. Updated this post so I had a place the link it from.

[Biff]

Hey Ken,

So what would you recommend for my setup. Do I go with a few trim packs, if so how many. I'm not looking for to much lift, just a level ride.

[ultimauk]

Originally Posted by semlin

interesting. i was either the guy or one of the guys who assumed packers/spacers would diminish performance compared to longer heavy springs. In my mind it is still true although the advantage may be smaller than i thought if the load rating is idnetical. to take an extreme example, surely a spring half as long with the same load rating would not perform as well dynamically as the longer spring. therefore the shorter medium spring will not perform quite as well as the heavy even with the same load. the difference may or may not be discernible.

here is a question. I believe people have found the ride on the heavies to be stiffer and harsher with insufficient weight. christo leans against the heavies unless you have a winch. this doesn't make sense if the load rating is the same. have people found the same thing using spacers with no winch/or arb?

"I believe people have found the ride on the heavies to be stiffer and harsher with insufficient weight. christo leans against the heavies unless you have a winch."

I have the OME heavies and run without any seats (other than DS and PS) and other than a ARB front bumper; I'm stock or pretty much running as lite as possible.

Everyone of passengers have complemented my 80's handling and ride, thus far.

Maybe, but hopefully not; the "insufficient weight" doesn't apply to me?

Originally Posted by Biff

"Hey Ken,

So what would you recommend for my setup. Do I go with a few trim packs, if so how many. I'm not looking for to much lift, just a level ride."

With the heavies, my 80 is NOT the bug moble (yes, level ride), but I'd say that they are about 1" taller than stock.

[Romer]

Originally Posted by Biff

Hey Ken,

So what would you recommend for my setup. Do I go with a few trim packs, if so how many. I'm not looking for to much lift, just a level ride.

As Dirty Harry said, " A man's got to know his limitations."

The extent of my knowledge on this subject is contained in this thread.

What I will do after I get a Rear Bumper and winch for the ARB, is to use the spacers. I can always change them if they don't work out. You might PM Nakman, he is using the spacers and is fully loaded.

[cruiserdan]

I am replacing my 850's / MR gasket packers tonight with my new 850J's that Ben just sent me...

I had a bit of a lean when I got home from Moab and I flattened a spacer.

[e9999]

so basically, if the rates are linear and the same for both heavy and med, and the springs are linear, that would mean that there should be no difference whatsoever dynamics wise between a heavy and a med+spacer the same length, right?

How about sturdiness, stability etc?

[Biff]

So whats the difference between the J springs and the heavies?

[semlin]

we really need an engineer on this thread but here's another comment from a guy with no physics after grade 10.

is arb saying the springs are physically identical except one is longer or are they saying that the springs are physically different so that, even though one is longer, they both have the same load bearing capacity. I think they are saying identical but longer.

assume you have two springs of exactly the same construction but one is longer than the other. Wouldn't the longer spring have a greater weight bearing capacity? under the same load, wouldn't the shorter spring be more compressed in normal operation? I am assuming every spring has an optimum load rate at which further compression diminishes the responsiveness of the spring. I think the longer identical spring will have a higher optimum load rate.

Conclusion? I think heavies are better for more load/weight. How much better I don't know. If you just want to cure stink bug, then spacers may be more appropriate.