Power Steering R&D (1 Viewer)

[scotia]

So I have doing some R&D on the 80 series vane power steering pumps and have found a lot of good and bad info. I have been toying with the idea of hydro ram assist and have seen several different setups and have talked with those that have done them. The biggest complaint is flow with the stock 80 series pump. With the lack of flow we loose the steering speed that gets noticed with the added ram. We have the pressure(somewhat) but who wants a slow steering system while having hydro assist, specially on the street, for those that actually drive to the trails with ram assist.
Now most of know of the pressure increase that can be had by drilling out the orifice on the outet side of the pump. The present thought is also that the flow cannot be changed. Well I am presently working in conjunction with a facility that may just be able to solve our flow woes. We have experimented with with different setups of the custom nature and have seen some great numbers and success with several different types of vane pumps. Toyota happens to have a very high quality and efficient system.
Those that have hydro winches will enjoy the benefits from this. Your spooling speeds will increase and pressure, if one has not already drilled out the disc. Meaning you will reap the rewards of more pulling force and may even hit relief pressure on the winch.
I will have some solid numbers by Tuesday or Wednesday to share. The bench testing will let me know more and just from I am seeing at the moment, pressures of up to 1700psi and 4+ gpm are looking quite possible. Maybe 5gpm. We are physically going into these pumps and "tweaking" the fluid ports and vane timing. The 1700psi number will include a large saftey buffer as I really don't want to see a split housing. Again the quality casting helps with this.
If we can achieve these numbers, I won't need to run a ram assist. And the bullet proof steering box will take all of what this pump can dish out. Some will obviously require a ram for grande tires, but this will make my 36's, (steering components will be upgraded) more steerable in the rocks and street driving will go unchanged. Those running rams will benefit from not having to run aftermarket pumps. Lets hope the numbers don't let us down.

 

[96r50]

Those that have hydro winches will enjoy the benefits from this. Your spooling speeds will increase and pressure, if one has not already drilled out the disc. Meaning you will reap the rewards of more pulling force and may even hit relief pressure on the winch.
I will have some solid numbers by Tuesday or Wednesday to share. The bench testing will let me know more and just from I am seeing at the moment, pressures of up to 1700psi and 4+ gpm are looking quite possible. Maybe 5gpm. We are physically going into these pumps and "tweaking" the fluid ports and vane timing. The 1700psi number will include a large saftey buffer as I really don't want to see a split housing. Again the quality casting helps with this.

This is the part I am interested in. Thanks for looking into this!

 

[scotia]

Well for those interested parties and those that may be following this thread, I have some news regarding our stock 80 series pumps. I have stepped out of the shop with a few numbers thus far. Stock numbers are as follows: 1500 psi with 2.750GPM. This explains what we already know.....in stock form it will not supply a ram assist with any real driveable speed or a hydro winch for spool speed Now that we have been playing with it, today we achieved a max pressure of 2000psi. And there was room for more(more info on that later). Flow is currently at 4GPM but we are only just now tuning that since we have good pressure numbers. What I am %99 sure of is a pump that will be available with 1800psi and 5GPM. The flow rate may get higher, but I will be leaving these at 1800psi. Hoses blow at 2200psi.

With this said, this will be a nice factory bolt on upgrade. Whether locked, unlocked, ram assisted or just running larger tires, this will be a nice mod. Steering on road will remain uneffected but offroad wil be enhanced. I also need to note that this will double the spool speed of any hydro winch running on a non modded stock pump.

Now I might get hit up by those that begin to question the steering gear box. That too is going under the knife to see what psi numbers it will handle for those that want to run a higher than 1800psi pump. The 1800psi/5GPM pumps will run a healthy stock steering box with out problems....not to worry. With this said, a higher psi pump will be offered but with no warranty.

These pumps will be available on a core exchange system. Send me your pump and you will get an 1800psi/5GPM pump. As mentioned, a higher psi pump will be available but with no warranty. Flat rated pumps(above) will cost $225 with exchange and come with a one year warranty. This pump will be completely rebuilt inside and out. The higher psi non warranty pumps will cost the same. With either pump, I recommend ditching the stock paperclip PS cooler and installing a larger more efficient unit and depending on you high pressure hose's age, change it too. Non core units may be available but cores for these trucks are hard to find which inturn will increase the cost. That number is not known yet as I have not looked into it as of yet.

These unit are being built and tested in a commercial steering/hydraulis facility that has been in business for over 30 years. One that supplies dealers, shops, and part stores with steering and hydraulic units. These are not built in a shed. If you are interested or have more questions regarding this pump, feel free to post on this thread or pm me.

 

[Tapage]

another strongly interested .. even if I'm not complete sure that my diesel engine share the same pump ( it looks the same in wife gasser )

 

[NLXTACY]

This is the part I am interested in. Thanks for looking into this!

X2, I'm going hydro winch myself.

 

[scotia]

I too am not certain if the diesel steering pumps are the same as the 80 series pump but we can confidently look into this for you. Most all pumps can be redone to allow for flow and pressure increases. Pumps have a bunch of room to play with.
Just take note on the comment above with regards to the steering cooler. Heat is the enemy. Choose a cooler that you feel comfortable using ......and bigger in this case would be better. Higher flows and pressures make more heat.
Given the environments that many of these trucks run in(mud members), a fin/tube or plate style cooler mounted in the stock location may get dirt bound or worse....punctured. My opinion is for a heatsink type cooler mounted in the stock location. This makes good use of the area that is under the rad and still has plenty of air flow without heat soaking the radiator. Added features of the heatsink type is that they dissipate heat with little or no air flow unlike the others mentioned and are tough as heck. Great for slow speeds or winching and abuse. Ofcourse the downside is that these units need to be a bit larger to do the same work of the latter and of a lesser size.
In the stock location, a 20" double pass cooler will fit nicely and will do very well. This is how mine is being done as this progresses. It will be installed prior to any trailing. You can choose. how or where to cool your modded pump. A stock cooler will get heat soaked quickly. For street use, it will do just fine as long as you don't dead head the steering wheel for 10 minutes in either direction.
Stay informed here on this thread as I will have more info on the flow numbers. As soon as we are solid on the flow test bench, we will begin taking potential orders.
I am open to any comments or suggestions that you may have. All inquiries are welcome including those of non 80 series pumps including minis and all other cruisers.
I can post up some info on the cooler mentioned if need be. Again this is my personal choice meaning you the reader can choose whatever you like. Even a fan cooled one if your heart desires.

 

[landtank]

I'm running a 12k MM hydraulic winch right now. I've already upgraded the cooling system and am running 35" tires.

I have a core pump sitting on the bench, where do I send it?

And I'll be posting winch times before and after once it is installed.

 

[djsherif]

Very interested for my hdj81. Interested in info about your cooler setup as well.

Thanks for your efforts.

 

[scotia]

I will provide my shipping address and I look forward to seeing the winch spooling times as well as I don't have one in front of me. Give me a few more days on the pumps. I want to be certain we get the numbers I want when it comes off the bench. The steering gear will be next. I will be posting info as we see it at the shop. Hopefully my intartron will be back up as I have been post all this today on my phone

 

[OGBeno]

Will the pump stay a gear driven pump off of the engine?

I also was planning on using the stock tranny cooler that sits on the DS, in front of the AC condensor, as my PS cooler. Do you feel this will be adequate with your PS pump upgrade?

Very interesting project.

 

[scotia]

Will the pump stay a gear driven pump off of the engine?

I also was planning on using the stock tranny cooler that sits on the DS, in front of the AC condensor, as my PS cooler. Do you feel this will be adequate with your PS pump upgrade?

Very interesting project.

This is good, I can fill in what I have left out. The pumps from the 1fz engines are what I am currently working with at the moment. So yes the the pumps will remain gear driver. Outside physical appearance will remain the same. Internals will be different.
On that note, when I begin to take orders, don't send a destroyed core. A leaking or weak(normal internal wear) can be rebuilt. One with damaged vanes only becomes a parts donor and not a useable core. As long as it still turns, they are usually ok. You will know once I get yours in hand. If there is a problem you will be notified.
The stock tranny cooler should suffice as it has a pretty large surface area. Right off hand I cannot recall the tubing diameter but I doubt it will create any return restrictions. It is also out of the way compared to the paper clip. Once I get the pump and steering gear finished, I will be working on the cooling. The IDEA is to go with an 18"- 20" Derale heat-sink cooler. The 3/8" inlet and outlet ports are where they need to be and it should fit very nicely in the stock location. But as mentioned, I have not gotten to that point. For those that get crazy.....an ice chest full of ice with a remote cooler would work.
On a side note: I will also be placing a dynometer on the pitman arm before and after the final pump install. That will give us some definite numbers right at the gearbox in the form of linear pull scaled in pounds. I am very curious to what that will show. More to come.

 

[96r50]

Two threads with good info and ideas about PS cooling systems:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/20738-power-steering-cooler-upgrade.html
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/343463-power-steering-cooler-install.html

 

[thestunts]

I'm interested in this ... at work though & will PM you later when I have some free time.

 

[scotia]

Thanks for the links Adam. I came across those threads while doing the leg work on this potential winner. I have loads of time around the traditional type coolers but the heat-sink types I do not. I have found some info stating a 30 degree delta(temperature difference inlet outlet) on the HS coolers but I can't really use that info. There are way too many variables. The same would apply for any such cooler for that matter. So ultimately it would be a decision made by the end user. I have a stacked plated type that I may try. Heck....I may have to bench test a cooler just to see. All I do know is that the stock one will not be up to the task. So

 

[Ebag333]

Another option may be a peltier or thermoelectric cooler. By applying voltage, one side of the cooler gets cold, the other hot. They work best when used with a heat sink and they are not trying to cool much more than the hot side.

Depending on where you mount it, you could be looking at 100* (on a hot summer day) to 150* (engine bay temps) on the "hot" side of the cooler. The cold side would go up against the power steering pipe...the question is, how hot is that temp?

 

[scotia]

I know exactly what you are speaking of. I beleive they use super conductors for this. These work very well and pull very few amps compared to that of a fan. Most if not all of your 12 fridges(not engel) use this setup. Large motor control panels in industrial settings also use these to cool the panels. As long as the heated side of the unit can get rid of the heat, then the cold side will get very cold. This option may suit some applications quite well.

 

[scotia]

That system can also be used for an armrest fridge but that's another story.

 

[Tapage]

I also was planning on using the stock tranny cooler that sits on the DS, in front of the AC condensor, as my PS cooler. Do you feel this will be adequate with your PS pump upgrade?.

X2 I already use a factory 80 series tranny cooler as my 80 PS oil cooler ..

 

[Ebag333]

I know exactly what you are speaking of. I beleive they use super conductors for this. These work very well and pull very few amps compared to that of a fan. Most if not all of your 12 fridges(not engel) use this setup. Large motor control panels in industrial settings also use these to cool the panels. As long as the heated side of the unit can get rid of the heat, then the cold side will get very cold. This option may suit some applications quite well.

The cheap 12v fridges use them, usually the ones that advertise that they get cold or hot. You can really only expect about a 30*-40* difference between the hot and cold side, depending on the situation.

They are somewhat of a power hog though, I'd say equal or perhaps even more than a fan. But for this purpose it's not much of an issue as the vehicle is running, while a fridge is expected to keep things cold even when the vehicle is off.

Anyway, I've seen them used with great success on computers, thought that might be an option here as well. As you said quite well: "As long as the heated side of the unit can get rid of the heat, then the cold side will get very cold."

 

[scotia]

Progress report

Yesterday we worked with quite a few pumps trying out different porting methods to bump up the flow. At one point we had over 4GPM but soon lost it after trying to squeeze out more. We even lost the pressure. But we know where we went wrong. So we are making progress. I am hoping that we don't hit a wall at 4GPM. We were really hoping for 5GPM and we still are. Not so sure at this point but hey...4GPM sure beats the heck out of 2.5GPM. I am happy.
And another interesting thing we noticed, which goes against a previous post.......these pumps are not consistant with respect to flow from the factory. We saw some with 2.1GPM up to that initial 2.75GPM mention earlier. So it makes sense as to why Toyota claims 2.5GPM as the standard average. Atleast with these modded pumps, they will be at a fixed flow rate and pressure.
Still the good news is that at present we have a %60 flow increase and a %20 pressure increase over stock settings. I am pretty happy about that. Hopefully we can do better. Time will tell.