Rear axle job and pics.

beno · 03-28-05, 12:07 PM

Hey all:

Rook2 and I are working on a rear axle job/rear brake job write-up and I just wanted to post some pics. of the job that I took last week.

The full write-up is in the works and will be done soon--promise--with the requisite pics. and explanations.

Here are some of the trucks--Rook's got a LX and mine is a regular LC.

Best.
-onur
Akron, OH

beno · 03-28-05, 12:10 PM

Before the job, hammer to hub to break loose the cone washers, and the axle coming out...

beno · 03-28-05, 12:12 PM

pic. of the lock nuts that you use the SST for and that you adjust for the pre-load at the end, a pic. without the rotor, and a pic. after the hub is off (note the e-brake mechanism inside--mine is due for a rebuild...talk to you soon Dan!!)...

beno · 03-28-05, 12:14 PM

Pic. of the dirty hub, hub without bearings, and of all the parts after the removal

beno · 03-28-05, 12:17 PM

Hubs packed with M1 synthetic grease and the bearings, hub re-attached to brake rotor, hub w/new rotor back on spindle with the grease inside...

beno · 03-28-05, 12:19 PM

Rook2 checking the preload with a fish scale, with the new gasket placed on the hub, and Rook2 pushing his axle back into the housing--carefully!!

beno · 03-28-05, 12:20 PM

and the final look of the rear axle all put back together sans tire...hopefully a write up coming soon....

Best regards.
-onur
Akron, OH

Romer · 03-28-05, 01:32 PM

Awesome. Thanks for the pics. I'll be doing this in the next few weeks.

Ken

IdahoDoug · 03-28-05, 01:42 PM

Looks great. One comment would be to use caution with a hammer that big to get the tapered washers free. Better to use a smaller hammer and pounding repeatedly as you could concievably flat spot the wheel bearings with that sledge.

DougM

concretejungle · 03-28-05, 02:03 PM

Thanks for the pics dudes! I was going to tackle this very job pretty soon, and i learn best from pictures!

I second what doug said about the hammer. Also one other note,.....i thought i remember hearing speak that when you pull the axles out, to be sure if you have a locker to engage it....i think engage, otherwise something about the spider gear falling down and having to take the rear end apart to get it lined back up. Someone, know what i'm trying to talk about here?

IdahoDoug · 03-28-05, 02:15 PM

I'd heard that, too. I haven't studied the third member(s) enough to know if this is an issue. I have lockers and didn't even know about this, yet my axles slid in and engaged in seconds at all four corners. I have a bit of a hard time thinking that there's a part in there that's going to fall off without the axle. The third member would be a complete unit that goes into the diff housing and its side gears and spiders would be self contained - ie it's not a pile of loose gears but an assembly.

Dunno for sure, but worth a conversation/thread with someone who's put in a third member to regear or for repair. Christo? Robbie?

DougM

beno · 03-28-05, 02:16 PM

Hey CJ: Yeah, I engaged the rear lockers before I pulled the axles--that way the spider thing doesn't get all squirrely on ya and make it a very difficult time getting the axle back in. Rook2 didn't have rear lockers so he didn't have to worry about them.

Doug--just two decent hits with the hammer did the job. No flat spots at all. I did the same for the front end job and one hit above and one hit from below worked just fine...the hammer isn't a BFH (it's a small BFH...

). I was very careful in hitting it square on, with not too much force, just enough to pop the cone washers out.

Best.
-onur
Akron, OH

bjowett · 03-28-05, 03:07 PM

Nice write up and PICS!

helocat · 03-28-05, 03:31 PM

Good photos. How many neighbors made comment about the “Cruiser” repair shop! What was the total time wheels up/wheels down?

Mark

Rookie2 · 03-28-05, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoDoug

I'd heard that, too. I haven't studied the third member(s) enough to know if this is an issue. I have lockers and didn't even know about this, yet my axles slid in and engaged in seconds at all four corners. I have a bit of a hard time thinking that there's a part in there that's going to fall off without the axle. The third member would be a complete unit that goes into the diff housing and its side gears and spiders would be self contained - ie it's not a pile of loose gears but an assembly.

Dunno for sure, but worth a conversation/thread with someone who's put in a third member to regear or for repair. Christo? Robbie?

DougM

IIRC, in an old post Christo referred to it as a lock sleeve or dog gear.

See this thread for more discussion on this, doesn't sound like a route you want to temp faith with:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/13104-rear-axle-service-ff.html

Beno: Did you get any pics through the axle for both rigs?

Rookie2

sjcruiser · 03-28-05, 03:46 PM

Great pics! (except the one that had the aftermarket pads; or at least looks like it)

Edit: On a second thought, it might be the anti-squeal goop overdosed

Rookie2 · 03-28-05, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helocat

Good photos. How many neighbors made comment about the “Cruiser” repair shop! What was the total time wheels up/wheels down?

Mark

Hehe... no doubt. I've had her up on jack stands doing one thing or another every few weeks, since I got it. Not many comments about it, other than "what's wrong with it today?" This was on Monday, so not much traffic in and out.

Total time: We started jacking them up about 8:30 and finished cleaning the grease off our hands at about 6:00. Looking back, I'm not quite sure what took us so long, but that was pretty much straight through. I guess cleaning everything up good.

Rookie2

e9999 · 03-28-05, 04:47 PM

so this would be the one time when the lockerless guys actually have one over the rest of us lockerfulls?

Bah, let them have their simple pleasures....

IdahoDoug · 03-28-05, 07:24 PM

Onur,

I wasn't worried so much about flat spots on the housing, but on the bearings which you wouldn't be able to see. The kind of shock you can deliver to the wheel bearings like that is WAY more than even hitting a square edged curb at road speed. Once you've hit it a time or two, the umoving bearings may have displaced their grease and then it's metal to metal from then on. They're designed to roll and spread the load and move grease all at the same time. I'd recommend hard tapping all around more vs hard blows. I'm a little paranoid as I carry an enormous amount of weight back there quite a bit, so.....

Just pointing it out, sounds like you have things under control.

DougM

Junk · 03-28-05, 07:32 PM

Thanks for the write up guys. Great pics too and will add this to the faq list. Looks like we need to have tech faqs versus other faqs soon.

Are we required to wear ugly shirts like that or was that just for romantic ambience?

Rookie2 · 03-28-05, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junk

Are we required to wear ugly shirts like that or was that just for romantic ambience?

D'oh.. After seeing that picture, I wondered how long it would take before a shirt comment came up. That's my "Jamaica Me Crazy" wrenching shirt man

.

Note to self, do a fashion check if "Onur the picture man is coming to town".

Honestly though, kudos to Onur. I get into wrenching, and the last thing on my mind is snapping pictures. I was to busy trying to keep him away from my axles with that BFH...

.

R2

beno · 03-28-05, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Edit: On a second thought, it might be the anti-squeal goop overdosed

Yuppers...a bit too much.

Quote:

I wasn't worried so much about flat spots on the housing, but on the bearings which you wouldn't be able to see. The kind of shock you can deliver to the wheel bearings like that is WAY more than even hitting a square edged curb at road speed. Once you've hit it a time or two, the umoving bearings may have displaced their grease and then it's metal to metal from then on. They're designed to roll and spread the load and move grease all at the same time. I'd recommend hard tapping all around more vs hard blows. I'm a little paranoid as I carry an enormous amount of weight back there quite a bit, so.....

Thanks for the explanation Doug. I wasn't aware the of the possible damage...now I know. I'll try it with a smaller hammer next time with more hits rather than a few hard blows. BTW, I had two extra inner and outer bearings/races from Dan, just in case they looked bad or for what you were describing with the metal-to-metal hits.

Quote:

I was to busy trying to keep him away from my axles with that BFH... .

Quote:

Beno: Did you get any pics through the axle for both rigs?

Rook2: After you and I looked at each other's respective views through the axle I didn't take a picture for I was unsure if the pics. would actually come out alright at all with such little light and I thought the camera flash might have actually made it worse. IIRC, you unlocked LX had an 'x' like piece of metal or two pieces of metal going through when we look into the housing. My LC had what looked like a mesh-metal pattern inside--more than likely the lockers engaged inside--there was a sort of 'x' pattern embedded inside except they were holes diagonal from each other. That's all I can remember about this.

While I'm on this topic, some other observations/hints: Like Gary noted in another thread, both Rook2 and I misread the FSM's we had and took off the half-part of the caliper holding it to the other half--we took out the ones holding the brake pads and the pistons in it, instead of taking the two bolts that hold the entire caliper onto the brake rotor. Easy to do, I think because they are close and look quite similar to each other. It actually worked fine for me as I was changing out the pads and the rotors and it made for easy disassembly/assembly. After I squeezed the brake pads in, I held the caliper and Rook2 used a long screwdriver to depress the piston so that I could fit the caliper back onto the assembly.

Definitely engage the lockers if you have them. I don't even want to think about what I would have to do to stick the axle back in if I hadn't and the gear had fallen out (I guess--others will chime in on this I assume).

Other than that, the job is rather easy going and straight forward--just follow the FSM on assembly afterwards--ie: the order in which to assemble everything back together. Also, the FSM has stud removal and placement back together in the rear axle section. Rook2 and I didn't replace the axle studs so we were able to skip that entire section. The bearing pre-load was pretty decent. I think we were both within specs. on our first tries...on the upper end at least and we tried to bring them down a bit towards the lower end, but ended up someplace in the middle, which was fine for the both of us. Neither of us replaced either inner or outer bearings or races--just cleaned'em out real good by soaking them in parts cleaner (1 gal. style from Advanced Auto I believe).

Keep with the torque ratings and things are all pretty simple after that. If any one has questions, drop a line.

Best regards.
-onur
Akron, OH

TLCgrappler · 03-29-05, 07:27 AM

I was about to write that the FSM actually specifies to lock the lockers, but after double-checking, it only mentions that in the section on servicing the differential, and is slient about it in both the front and rear axle service sections.

Locking them and making sure the locker is engaged seems like a prudent thing to do, based on experiences noted here.

DanKunz · 07-26-07, 12:43 PM

The collar and shift fork in the e-locker are oriented ON the axle. It is possible to have the collar and shift fork to become mis-aligned when you pull the long side axle (rear) or short side axle (front).

The e-locker actuators load a spring that puts tension on the locking collar through the shift fork. When the outer portion of the carrier lines up with the collar, the large teeth engage (CLUNK), and you are locked. To prevent the collar from becoming misaligned locking the diff is a quick and easy step.

I don't see why you can't do it...it prevents a pain the rear upon reinstallation IF things get out of alignment. An ounce of prevention...

Bambusiero · 10-07-07, 03:15 AM

Here is a picture showing where to position the lock screws, and how to line up the lock ring index marks to the spindle index marks.

Having never been into the rear axle hub before, this was not clear to me even after reading all the FAQs and the FSM. I had to take it back apart the 1st time to figure it out because everything was all gooey with grease. However, once you see the scheme, you can easily find the right holes for the lock screws, even if everything is covered in grease.

The red arrows point to the 4 index notches on the end of the spindle. They are located on the diagonals, at clock positions 1:30, 4:30, 7:30, and 10:30.

The blue arrows point to the 3 index marks on the lock ring.

You line up a lock ring index to a spindle index. Use whichever pair is closest to each other after torquing the lock ring. A new pair is lined up at every 30 degrees of rotation.

Then, the 2 lock screws go in holes at a right angle to the lined up index pair, and you're good to go.

Bear80 · 10-07-07, 10:43 AM

How deep has everyone driven the axle seal into the housing? FSM doesn't specify, and they can be driven in past flush.

Bambusiero · 10-07-07, 02:44 PM

Mine stopped at about flush. Wouldn't go any further.
I used a piece of 3" size schedule 40 ABS sewer pipe as a seating tool.
It fit just right, on the metal surface outside of the rubber dust ring.

Also, for the inner oil seal (axle shaft) a 1" size PVC slip fitting, like a "tee" joint for instance, fit just right to drive it into the spindle.

Bear80 · 10-07-07, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bambusiero

Mine stopped at about flush. Wouldn't go any further.

Look at your above picture, the seal is past flush with the spindle.

Bambusiero · 10-08-07, 01:46 AM

Sorry. I misunderstood and thought you were talking about the big seal into the back of the hub.

For the smaller axle seal, yes, it did go deeper than flush. The inside of the spindle is cylindrical for a short distance, then transitions to a taper to smaller diameter. That taper is what the seal seated against. There isn't a real hard definitive seat. It only required mild tapping to move it in and I drove it in until it seemed to stop. I hope I did it right???

I haven't done the other side yet. Want me to look at anything particular when I get there?

Bear80 · 10-08-07, 08:39 AM

First time I did this was on mine and my sister's at the same time. On both I only put the seals in flush. I just pulled my rear apart 1.5 years later to pull out the diffs and noticed that one seal had allowed some fluid into the hub. I think because of the taper in the spindle, the seal may look evenly installed but might not be. Or the seal flexs in the taper allowing fluid into the hub. I think pushing the seal in past the taper is best.

However, I took a look at the axle and noticed that the first replacement seals rode near the edge of the sealing surface. Meaning that installing the seal further in the spindle will have the seal ride right at the end of the axle's sealing surface.