Vehicle Whine

[Romer]

I searched through all the other threads and couldn't find what I needed. The Drive to Nuetral Test provides some more data than what was in the posts

I have this whine that happens when I accelerate and get above 10 MPH and changes and also occurs as I decelerate. When I decelerate, it sounds like something winding down (changes tone). This is on my 97 LX450.

I just changed to OEM Belts. I tried loosening them and it had no effect.

I checked my lug nuts and they are tight.

All fluids are good.

We (Mabrodis, Ige and me) did a Front Axle rebuild 2 months ago. Also, change the Rotors and 100 series Pads. I checked and there is no seepage on the Ball.

I put Big Hose clamps on the CATs.

Today I tried a Test. While driving a constant speed down hill I shifted into Nuetral. The Engine RPM went from 2000 to 1000 fairly quickly. This also had no impact on the Whine.
I then repeated the test slowing down (2000 RPM to 1000 RPM) and this had no effect on the whine. The Whine seems to be more prone to wheel/vehicle speed rather than engine RPM.


If you guys could help me with the following questions:

1) The D to N test should have ruled out belts, bearings and associated pulley’s, right?
2) The D to N test should rule out the Power Steering Pump, right?
3) The D to N Test should rule out the exhaust, right?

In my mind this leaves the following:
1) Axle
2) Tire Issue (Balancing, etc) I’ll go have them balanced and rotated.
3) Driveline (U joints, other?)
4) Or could be vibration issue I am having with Slider (Probably not). I did (as posted in another thread) have the cardboard in the Slider gap and it does not vibrate anymore. It made this same noise before I used the cardboard.

Any other thoughts?

Thanks,
Ken

There can be several bearing in the drive train that could create some whine. The t-case output bearing, the output from the tranny it self, the t-case input bearings could make noise. The one thing I could sujest is to put a different gear lube in the t-case and see if the noise changes (try 90-140 gear lube or if you have synthetic, change to a dino for the experment) If the noise is minor what till it gets worse, it maybe easier to find then. these 80 have a lot of whines that some vechicles have and others do not. later robbie

[davegonz]

Ken,
I have the same frigging whine...Mine started when I changed out all of the fluids after I purchased it used at 97k miles. I used Mobil synthetic diff fluid. I don't know if it's the fluid that caused it by either loosening up the crud in the diffs or what. It's driving me nuts....No sound when at a stand still, but will start once I get moving and during deceleration. I think it could be newish tires (~2k miles on 'em) or it's in desperate need of a birf repack. I might try switching diff fluids like Robbie suggests.

david

[Romer]

Took it to a Trusetd Mechanic and they are still working the details, but said the noise is from within the transfer case and its not going to be cheap. I'll get more details later. This is probably more than the 2 Bannana job for me to work on it.

Crap!

[Romer]

Holy Crap,
They called and said its high up in the Transfer Case near the output shaft, but they are pretty sure its isolated to the transfer case. He gave me the following Options:

1) 6 hours of tear down ($450) to figure out what's wrong and then parts and labor to repair.
2) A used (40,000 miles) one installed for $1949
3) A new one installed for $3100

I decided to pick it up and drive it for a while while I evaluate other alternatives.

Ken I would try the lube test to see if the sound changes with a thicker lube. If so then the usual places for the wine is the out put for the prop shafts (drive shafts). Two banana to take the t-case off. a 3-4 bannana to put new output bearing in it. best to have a press but can be done with out. If higher replace the big sealed bearing in the input area with a new one. But hey it is your money. later robbie

[woody]

I'd describe mine as more of a howl than a whine, starts at 45 and is there so long as I'm under load/power. Seems to all but disappear under decel.

regreased all u-joints yesterday, plan to pull the rear prop shaft and clean/lube properly next. Also, once I get the CDL switch in, gonna try it with the front shaft removed and again with the rear shaft removed to see if I can isolate it more....

lube swap is a good idea, amsoil in mine now, may try some thick stuff and see what happens (after the CDL experiment)

[Romer]

I switched the Transfer Case to a 90-140 W Durablend and the pitch of the wine seems to have gotten lower. When I am going about 45 now it sounds like one of those WWII prop fighters.

How hard is it to replace the output for the drive shaft. Does the Xfercase have to come off to do it?

Would doing Woody's shaft test (ha ha) tell me anything?

Thanks

The rear output can be done with out removeing the t-case. It is almost not worth doing the front unless you remove the t-case. the t-case on the 80 is easy compared to all the rest of the toyota's. After supporting the tranny, removing a few switdhes, disconnecting the high/low linkage, 6 17mm head bolts the t-case slips off. I have not tried to remove the front, as I can not get to a couple of the bolts for the front housing, also when assembling the lock shift fork is in this area and I think would be a problem to reassembly with the FIPG that is used for a gasket. Any how it is not that big of a deal until it gets bad. The noise level(with the new lube, thicker) would indicate that it is one of the outputs that is creating your noise instead of the higher bearing in the t-case. But heck what do I know. later robbie

[IdahoDoug]

Ken,

I'd drop the $60 or so to get a center diff lock switch from Slee or Dan and do the shaft test. Definitely worth doing now that you know how much $ you're looking at. Plus you'll have the added functionality of the CDL switch no matter what you do.

Personally, I'll be surprised if this noise is in the center differential. Drive train noises are extremely tricky unless someone with a stethescope gets up close and personal with it. If it were my truck, I'd have it up on 4 jack stands running at freeway speeds listening to it myself before I'd drop $2k on a noise. Yeah, kinda dangerous if done poorly but I've done it before with success.

DougM

[woody]

Originally Posted by robbie

The rear output can be done with out removeing the t-case. It is almost not worth doing the front unless you remove the t-case. the t-case on the 80 is easy compared to all the rest of the toyota's. .... But heck what do I know. later robbie

heck, the outputs on the 40 are a breeze, this has to be cake....lol

my switch shipped today....with lots of luck, install on Sat morning and do some testing over the weekend. Believe I'll do the lube swap regardless.

Robbie, any opinions on those "snake oil" fixes like Lucas additives and such?

[Romer]

Thanks Doug,
I already have the switch. So I'll try the drive shaft test before I do anything else. Wouldn't the output still spin even if there isn't a driveshaft connected?

The mechanic I took it to put it up on the rack and listened and could only isolate it to the Transfer case, they think from the top side.

[woody]

Originally Posted by Romer

Wouldn't the output still spin even if there isn't a driveshaft connected?

yeppers, it will still spin, but without the load of the rear driveline on it. The whine should either vanish or change if it's from the rear output. (I'm hoping it vanishes, and ends up a rear pinion bearing....but not holding my breath....)

YOu have to pull the whole housing as the outputs are one piece and need to be disasmebled from the inside out. Not at all like the outputs on a 40. No nuts, no taper roller bearings, no shims to adjsut anything. So the whole housing need to be removed to do this job, be it either front or rear. Look at a FSM to see what is up. later robbie

[woody]

kewl...FSM outta be here soon with the CDL and a "real" antenna!

tkx!

[Dansan]

I've had the exact same whine on my 95, which I bought new, from about the 45K mark to the present 115K.

IMHO, it is a lubrication issue relating to the drive shaft. I got a list somewhere, of all the zerk fittings and the procedure for lubing them. I wrote it down and gave it to my mechanic during my last fluids exchange. Unfotunately, he didn't return that list.

After they did the work, the whine was a lot less, although not totally absent. I don't know about pulling the transfer case.

[woody]

following up on the driveshaft issue, I was noting the position of the slip on my rear shaft....the spline is towards the t-case...however, on most other shafts, (including my front shaft and all CV-type shafts) the spline is down towards the pinion. Since I'm pulling mine soon for a proper re-grease of the spline area, does orientation of the slip make a difference?

[phishtaco]

Just wondering.....

Are you sure its just not the Exhaust whine/whistle that alot of people experience?

[woody]

on mine, it's a howl that kicks in at 40-45 and gets progressively higher pitched as you accellerate thru 70....back off the power and it all but vanishes.

[phishtaco]

Woody...That is exactly what mine does and my brothers lx450 and my other brothers 80 which is now sold.

[Romer]

Mine starts as a whine building up in volume (and speed) and goes along with the speed of the vehicle. It changes tone and does the opposite as you deccelerate. It definitly is somethiong rotational.

Don't think mine is the exahaust, because I can shift from D to N and going down hill maintain the same speed and the sound is unchanged. The engine RPM drops down to idle which would impact the Exhaust outputy.

[atijerino]

My '94 has the same whinne as you described, it seems to reach the perfect harmonics at around 72Mph and it becomes less evident.
I took the truck to the local dealer for a "sure" diagnostics, they came back with a diagnostics that the driver's side inner-axle was worned out and that the front axle spindle bushing needed repalcement. The estimate was $600.00.
I took the front axle apart and did not see any noticeable wear on the inner axle and the bushing did not seem worm, the outer axle shaft does not ride on this bushing, it rather floats on the bushings
I repacked the birfs and installed new wheel bearing, after this the whinne still perssits, I am leaning more towards the rear u-joints and slip spline yoke, second choise output diff pinion bearings.
I guess I have continue eliminating possible causes until I hit the root cause.

Thanks,

Thanks,

[Romer]

Robbie,
Can you help me with the two statements. If I determine it to be the rear output by the driveshaft test, i want to know what to do. If its all one peice, then might as well just pull the T Case

Originally Posted by robbie

The rear output can be done with out removeing the t-case.

Originally Posted by robbie

YOu have to pull the whole housing as the outputs are one piece and need to be disasmebled from the inside out.

[IdahoDoug]

Ken,

Sorry to kinda start you at ground zero here, but did this whine exist before you guys did the front axle repack and all the work - in other words did you buy it this way?

Other than the usual faint whining and whirring of a bunch o' gears on the 80s I've had/driven (lots), the only true whine that was loud enough to be a concern was a front diff. The owner had persistently let the front diff get low due to not keeping the front axle seals in shape and the high pinion design caused it to suffer first as it's high in the diff. Frankly, it was tough to discern where the noise was and I could have easily been convinced it was the center diff because of the way sound travels through metal. I used the patented method of duct taping a length of garden hose to each major component as I took it for a quick spin and in 15 minutes there was no question about the front diff being the source.

DougM

[Romer]

The sound is new in the last week. I took it to a shop that put it on a rack and isolated it to the Tcase "area". The noise is gets loud enough that I am concerned about wear and damage. I do not want to break down in Moab. Per Robbie's advice, the sound changed (not a lot) when going to a thicker lube.

I changed the front diff fluid when I bought and then again after the re-pack

[atijerino]

Doug,

Can you tell us more about this "duct tape" method?


Thanks,

[IdahoDoug]

Ah man (rolling eyes) you guys are gonna think I'm crazy. I've used two methods to find sounds quickly that are as ancient as Cdan (well, almost). One is using a wooden dowel pressed against a mechanical device to listen to it very clearly. You put the other end against your ear (actually pressing against it) and it's amazing what you can hear. Just be extremely cautious about this. I don't think I need to elaborate on what happens if the other end gets hit by the fan or caught in a moving belt since it's a half inch from your brain. I used this method as recently as 3 weeks ago on the new 97 when I was bummed it appeared the A/C compressor bearings were going. 5 minutes with a dowel and I could clearly hear it was the belt tensioner under the A/C compressor and it's sitting on my bench awaiting install ($15 vs pulling the entire A/C compressor).

Another method is using a length of garden hose the same way. You may recall that up until WWII, officers on the bridge could speak to the engine room hundreds of feet away with speaking tubes, and this is the same principle. Hold one end against a component and listen.

What I did was cut a garden hose long enough to go out the window (run it out the farthest away window and tape the window gap so you're not trying to listen over wind noise) and taped it so the cut end is directly against the front diff. Get a good seal so you're also not getting wind noise from under the truck. Don't be stingy with the duct tape to prevent it from coming loose underway - tape it along the body, etc.

Driving down the road, you'll be able to clearly hear the difference in gear noise when the differential gears are on their drive faces (power on) and when they switch to the angled coast side. Believe me, there's no subtlety here - it's as plain as day when you're listening and it will bring a smile of disbelief to your face the first time you use either a dowel or hose. Switch to another suspect component and go for a drive. I brought the tape with me and old clothes so I could just pull off and switch the hose without going all the way home. Boom - case closed.

Works like a charm, just be sure to wear your Junk mask so the neighbors don't call you in....

DougM

[Romer]

I was going to bring it into Christo, but he asked me to try something first. He is a good guy, he could have just taken my money.

He told me on his 100 series the drive shaft on the 100 series didn't have a slot of "spring" in it, and it made a similar noise. He told me to take the drive shaft off at the diff and remove the spline. Mark it before I do because it has to back in the exact same place to remain blanced.

Clean it out, there was some gunk that would have been beteen the shaft and the outer casing of the spline. I also cleaned out the grease from the inside. I re-nstalled it and greased it.

It's snowing here and the streets are a little wet, so I don't know if that deadened the sound, or kept the tcase cool so it didn't make it. BUT, the sound went from a volume 8 to a volume 2. That may even be normal, I can't remember. I'll drive it a few days and see and post back if it's gone.

Just thought I would post it up in case others want to try this. Christo said it solved his problem.

Ken