Which Winch?

[Gauge]

I am sorry if this question is very basic, but I know nothing about winches.

I just mounted the ARB Bull Bar on my Cruiser, and it looks fantastic. (Pics will be forthcoming). However, it really bothers me that I have that big cutout where the winch is suppossed to go and nothing in there (yet).

I believe the ARB site says the Bull Bar is made to fit the Warn M8000 and M12000 winches, but are these the only 2 winches I can use?

Assuming that I can mount a different winch in there, what would everyone recommend? Is Warn even a good winch?

Like I said, sorry if this questions is basic, but I appreciate the help.

Thanks!!

One more thing......I've been doing a search on the internet and now I find that some winches come with "synthetic rope". Is there any advantage of synthetic rope over the braided wire cable?

[Josh83]

Warn is viewed by many as the industry standard. The M12000 is an excelent winch. As far as fitment, I believe you can fit pretty much any winch that has the seperately mounted control pack(aka a non integrated solenoid). For my money, go with the warn M12, but I like to overbuild everything.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by 97 Land Bruiser

I am sorry if this question is very basic, but I know nothing about winches.

I believe the ARB site says the Bull Bar is made to fit the Warn M8000 and M12000 winches, but are these the only 2 winches I can use?

Assuming that I can mount a different winch in there, what would everyone recommend? Is Warn even a good winch?

You can't go wrong with Warn, but Ramsey and Mile Marker make good winches too. IMO, the hole in the front is a small inconvenience and I wouldn't let it make you in a hurry about buying a winch. Maybe you can spend some time doing some research and associating with owners who use them regularly. An 80 can do just fine with a 8000 lb. winch with the occasional snatchblock if you're only using it 4-5 times a year. But if you are going out and hitting the trails every weekend, maybe you should spring for the Warn 9500 XDi or 10K. The 12K is the best, but its a bit of overkill unless you are heavily loaded. In the meantime, if its bugging you that much, go buy a roller fairlead and bolt it on...because that's the only part of adding a winch that will be viewable to the discriminating public.

Jim

[best4x4xfar]

You may also want to consider Superwinch. I’m sure you have heard of the Camel Trophy Challenge. A primarily Land Rover event (back when it was a real wheeling event at least), it was one of the most grueling tests of man and machine around. They used Warn 8274’s one year (widely considered Warn’s stoutest winch), and one year only. Too many failures. Every other year they used Superwinch Huskys. These are seriously heavy duty worm drive winches, but Superwinch also makes many planetary drive winches with the same bolt pattern and basic footprint as the Warns. They do seem to be regarded as more durable, better built winches, and are definitely better sealed from the elements.

Not to say that Warn is a horrible product (I’ve owned thee Warn XD series and one Superwinch X series winch over my years of wheeling), mine have saved my but more than once. However, they are really poorly sealed from the elements, and having torn down both I can tell you the internals of the Superwinch X9 looked much beefier than the internals of my XD9000s did. Something else to consider, Warn’s max ratings seem to be stall ratings. Up until recently, Superwinch listed a max pull (usually designated in the model name) and an actual stall rating. In the case of the X9 for example, it was rated for 9,000 lbs single line and stalled at 11,200 lbs. I’ve been told they stopped because people were using the stall rating as a maximum, but that is just hearsay. At any rate, I don’t know if a Husky series winch could be fitted to an ARB bumper easily, but I’m relatively certain an X or EP (New heavy duty planetary designs with 12,500 and 16,500 lbs pull ratings) series could be rather easily fitted. Something else to consider…

http://www.superwinch.com/pages/winches.html

[woody]

winch brand discussions seem to crop up frequently, a couple brand name searches may find you results.

50% of a quality winch is in the install itself...quality cables, connectors, etc. A $1000 winch is useless on 6-gauge battery cables.

I've owned only Warn's....zero complaints. I've been winched out by Warn's, Ramsey's, SuperWinch's, and MileMarker's (and likely some others too)......some of the pathetic performance of these winches was the blame of the owner (maintenance) but none have ever impresssed me like a Warn for line speed and reliability.

[wob]

You can do the po' boys winch set up like I have for a while until you decide. At least it covers up the hole.

[Gold Finger]

Well what ever winch you choose dont use this method of recovery!

http://community-2.webtv.net/Babajan...Law/index.html

[MSGGrunt]

Think about a Mile Marker hydraulic if you are serious about winching. In addition to being able to run when an electric winch fries its motor a hydraulic winch is 100% waterproof and will even work when totally submerged. Can't say that about an electric winch. You ever wonder why Warn, and others, always advertises their winches nice and high and dry? With the hydraulic you won't have to purchase an additional battery, coolant resevoir relocating hardware, high output alternator and heavier gauge battery cables. The downside to a hydraulic is that it will have a slower line speed than most electics but, will pull all day long when the electrics have had to stop and let their motors cool. Additionally, you will hear people argue the fact that with a hydraulic winch the motor has to be running... This is very true but, how often has your motor not been running when stuck? And, how long will an electric winch run without the motor running and battery being recharged by the alternator? A safety issue is that a hydraulic winch stops immediatly when you let off the switch where an electric will have some creep after letting off the switch. It all boils down to opinion and what you want the winch to do. If you're looking for fast single vehicle recovery then the electric may be the way to go. If you are looking for a winch that will pull others out of stuck situations all day long the hydraulic may be best. I run a MileMarker 10,500 2-speed in an ARB bull bar and love the combination.

[Dirk Diggler]

Is an 8,000 lb. winch enough for an 80? I would guess that would take forever to get it unstuck.

[Junk]

No, for an 80 you should definitley have more than an 8k winch.

I have a Superwinch X9 for sale in the classifeds

[MSGGrunt]

In my opinion an 8000 is marginal for a loaded and fully modified Cruiser. 10,000 or better yet a 12,000 would be ideal. Not only will you be pulling the weight of the cruiser at some odd angles at times but, you may also have to overcome the suction of mud if you are mired to your frame. I'd prefer to have more winch pulling capacity than I need than not enough and over work the winch. You can double your line to lighten the load on the winch but, this will slow your recovery time and how far you can reach to the nearest anchor point without extra cables/ropes/chains.

[fzj80kidpen]

Golder Finger.
Nice link. Thats serious funny technique

[woody]

Originally Posted by MSGGrunt

Think about a Mile Marker hydraulic if you are serious about winching. In addition to being able to run when an electric winch fries its motor a hydraulic winch is 100% waterproof and will even work when totally submerged.

A> hydraulics are useless when your vehicle isn't running...a frequent issue when you are THAT deep in the mudhole and have to get free...or upside down, or verticle, or other occasions where running the motor is impossible....I have used mine more than once when no one else could get to me. Hydraulics ARE, however, awesome pullers and IMO the winch of choice if you are notoriously pulling all your "too cheap to buy a winch" buddies around all the time. (OK, most of this is a non-issue for an 80....)

B> I've used my current 8274 and my ancient Warn Bellevue underwater many many many times, and other than normal cleaning/maintenance, there have been no ill effects. (The Bellevue is a 1974 model and works perfectly to this day...)

[Mikesta]

that link is freeking hillarious!

http://community-2.webtv.net/Babajan...Law/index.html

[Mikesta]

Here is what really happened:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/crane.asp

[stuck in GA]

A milemarker 12,000 pound winch won't fit in there right? Cause that is what I heard. I use to have one but a friend told me it is too big for an arb and only warn can go in there so I sold it with my tahoe.

[bjowett]

Superwinch Husky, as explained above, best electric winch out there.... not the winner in line speed, though. Waterproof, dependable.

[stuck in GA]

Well how much is the Superwinch and will it fit smoothly on the bar?

[Augie]

I believe the husky could not be mounted with the feet forward which it would not work very well in ARB bar without major modification.

[sea2skydad]

One more thing......I've been doing a search on the internet and now I find that some winches come with "synthetic rope". Is there any advantage of synthetic rope over the braided wire cable?


It seems as though the winch part of your question has been fairly well covered but the "rope versus cable" is still up for grabs, so I'll wade in on this one. Synthetic (polyproplene) is a wonderful option provided you are aware of the limits and shortcomings associated with it. The main drawback is that it doesn't wear well, if it chafes you will part strands. The best way to protect it is to cover it with the casing from a nylon rope, typically for the last 50'. The synth rope ( the brand I use is called Spectra ) is a lot lighter than cable and way easier to splice. The manufacturers claim that it has a similiar breaking strength to the same size wire rope ( with rope core, not cable core ) but this would only apply to new rope as the synth rope tends to wear quickly. HTH, Greg.

[helocat]

Originally Posted by woody

A> hydraulics are useless when your vehicle isn't running...a frequent issue when you are THAT deep in the mudhole and have to get free...or upside down, or verticle, or other occasions where running the motor is impossible....I have used mine more than once when no one else could get to me. Hydraulics ARE, however, awesome pullers and IMO the winch of choice if you are notoriously pulling all your "too cheap to buy a winch" buddies around all the time. (OK, most of this is a non-issue for an 80....)

I have seen photos of some Ausi double failsafe set ups with the hydraulic winches. They have a fork lift 12v pump and reservoir set up where they can switch hydraulic sources from the engine driven pump OR the 12v pump. Complicated but cool.

I like light weight and simplicity, electric has been my choice.

Originally Posted by woody

B> I've used my current 8274 many many many times,

Wait? Winch? I thought you just pushed your truck back over each time you or C roll it!?

Mark

[flintknapper]

Originally Posted by woody

winch brand discussions seem to crop up frequently, a couple brand name searches may find you results.

50% of a quality winch is in the install itself...quality cables, connectors, etc. A $1000 winch is useless on 6-gauge battery cables.

I've owned only Warn's....zero complaints. I've been winched out by Warn's, Ramsey's, SuperWinch's, and MileMarker's (and likely some others too)......some of the pathetic performance of these winches was the blame of the owner (maintenance) but none have ever impresssed me like a Warn for line speed and reliability.

Ditto....

Proper installation should be "Job 1" regardless of which unit you choose.

Big cables (Hot and Ground), good connections, and enough battery are all essential elements for electric units.

Take the time to compare performance specs. (line pull per layer), this will be a real eye opener for you.

I use a Warn 8274 and it served me well for nearly 20 years. Even on the fifth layer it will pull 6,300 lbs. (with enough battery).

I would prefer to have a 12,000 lb. on a Cruiser but check the specs. before purchasing anything.

[Gauge]

I am at a complete loss of understanding on winch ratings. The Cruiser packed (complete with cargo) weighs about 6,000 pounds. If a winch has a pull rating of 8,000 lbs, then it should be able to pull the cruiser straight up into the air (and an additional ton on top of that). Why would you need a 12,000 lb pull winch on a 6,000 lb vehicle?

Also, it takes significantly less power to pull a vehicle parallel to gravity than perpendicular to it, and if I were to get stuck, I would only have to pull my vehicle parallel to gravity (perhaps a slight incline).

I would think it shouldn't take more that 3,000 lbs of pull to drag the cruiser on a dirt road with all 4 tires locked. How much pull would be needed to pull the cruiser out of mud?

Again, sorry if my question is basic, but I just don't understand. Shouldn't the winch be rated at the maximum weight of the vehicle?

[Darwood]

Originally Posted by 97 Land Bruiser

If a winch has a pull rating of 8,000 lbs, then it should be able to pull the cruiser straight up into the air (and an additional ton on top of that).

I'm suddenly reminded of "The Gods Must Be Crazy".

[Gauge]

Originally Posted by Darwood

I'm suddenly reminded of "The Gods Must Be Crazy".

Geez......I'm talking theorotically. I am NOT going to tie the winch to a tree limb to see if I can pull the cruiser off the ground.

[e9999]

the pull needed if the truck is stuck is obviously not a function of its weight only.
Consider the situation where the struck is stuck in wet concrete that would then harden. Can you see that the pull needed might well be more than the weight of the truck now?

[Cruiserdrew]

Originally Posted by 97 Land Bruiser

I just mounted the ARB Bull Bar on my Cruiser, and it looks fantastic. (Pics will be forthcoming). However, it really bothers me that I have that big cutout where the winch is suppossed to go and nothing in there (yet).

Without a winch, that bar creates a huge money sucking sound that will reverb in your head until you buy a winch. It's weird, but no one else will hear it but you. So my advice is to go and buy a Warn M12000 and install. It fits in really well with minimal work, and is all the winch you need.

[Gauge]

Originally Posted by e9999

the pull needed if the truck is stuck is obviously not a function of its weight only.
Consider the situation where the struck is stuck in wet concrete that would then harden. Can you see that the pull needed might well be more than the weight of the truck now?

Well.....(and I am laughing as I write this), I don't know what the rest of you do with your Cruisers, but I wasn't actually planning on driving my Cruiser in wet cement and then hanging around to wait for it to dry.

For that matter, I don't think there is winch on the market that would be strong enough.