crank no start help please

kjishikawa@msn.com · 11-05-09, 10:07 PM

I just changed the fusible links today thinking for sure that was the problem because the old one's insulation was all cracked and peeling, but still cns! Shows no spark with timing gun, but I don't know if I'm doing it right. I didn't have anyone to help me so I couldn't do the pull spark plug test. No fuel when I pull the return line from the pressure regulator, but when I short the fuel relay plug I definitely hear the fuel in the rail. I do not have check engine light when I turn the key, but I don't remember having it before. I'm thinking no power to the ECU. How do I diagnose this? Any other ideas? Thanks.

kjishikawa@msn.com · 11-06-09, 03:03 AM

this is a 95 by the way

landtank · 11-06-09, 06:18 AM

this problem can be related to the alternator. No output or at least a bad connection between the alternator and battery will cause this problem. If it is this, most of the time it's the large wire that is lugged down on the alternator post. Another possibility is bad brushes which are easily replaced.

Photoman · 11-06-09, 06:26 AM

Under the hood should be a fuse box on the US drivers side. Check the EFI fuse.

Bill

re_guderian · 11-06-09, 08:18 AM

Where are you located? The factory Electrical Wiring Diagram is indispensable in troubleshooting these types of problems. You're welcome to borrow my '95 EWD if you're anywhere close... I wouldn't rule out fuel pump relay circuit issues based on your description either. It runs the pump (or not, if you have problems) at one of 2 voltages depending on demand from the ECU. You have a lot more diagnosing to do before buying parts, unless of course, you have more cash than time...

kjishikawa@msn.com · 11-06-09, 04:17 PM

Hey guys thanks for the replies. I'm at work today so I can't tinker with it but at least I'll have some ideas to try tomorrow. Rick, won't alternator problems give me a click no start problem? The engine cranks but won't start. Bill, sorry I forgot to mention I checked the the fuses under hood and near driver's knee and all appear fine. Rob, I'd love to take you up on that offer. Do you mind driving it over to Kauai for me? Is there a way to test the relays? The fuses can be checked visually but how do you check the relays?
After searching and searching I was almost certain that it was the fusible links, I guess that would have been to easy. I have no CEL when I turn the key to the on position which is supposed to mean no power to ECU. Is this why I am not getting spark or fuel? Is power needed to ECU to get spark and fuel? I'm assuming by shorting the fuel relay plug I am bypassing the ECU to get fuel.
Again thanks for the ideas and keep them coming so I have more ammo to throw at her tomorrow.

kjishikawa@msn.com · 11-06-09, 04:36 PM

Also the shifter is stuck in park

Photoman · 11-06-09, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjishikawa@msn.com

Also the shifter is stuck in park

This can be caused by a blown brake light fuse or short in that circuit.
In an emergency you can pop the little cover and use a screwdriver to get it out of park.

Bill

Photoman · 11-06-09, 05:42 PM

Related to what Rick said in Post 3; at the alternator is a large connector post. In this ring terminal connector is the large wire from the battery positive to the alternator. In addition with the ring terminal, there is a feed wire that goes to the under hood fuse panel and to the inside fuse panel. Since the brake circuit is now involved it would seem that the connection at the alternator has gotten hot or corroded and now these fuse panel feed wires are not getting full or any power. Disconnect the battery positive first before working on the terminal since it will be "hot".

Bill

KliersLC · 11-06-09, 06:25 PM

Isn't there a comprehensive no start thread that we did couple years ago?

jonheld · 11-06-09, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjishikawa@msn.com

I checked the the fuses under hood and near driver's knee and all appear fine.
The fuses can be checked visually but how do you check the relays?
I have no CEL when I turn the key to the on position which is supposed to mean no power to ECU. Is this why I am not getting spark or fuel? Is power needed to ECU to get spark and fuel? I'm assuming by shorting the fuel relay plug I am bypassing the ECU to get fuel.

Check fuses with a meter, not an eyeball. Eyeball=primrose path.
If the CEL is not on, the EFI circuit is not energized=no spark.

I don't have an FZJ80 schematic in front of me nor one in my driveway, but I can't imagine the troubleshooting procedure is much different from the older vehicles.

kjishikawa@msn.com · 11-07-09, 01:57 AM

I'll start with the alternator connections tomorrow and also recheck fuses especially brake light fuse. Any way to check relays? KliersLC, any link to that thread? I've checked the emergency startup in the FAQ and also found a bunch of stuff when I searched cns(crank no start). Others have had similar problems but don't seem to post up their solutions. Thanks again and I'll keep you guys posted.

KliersLC · 11-07-09, 09:58 PM

The one in the FAQ was the one I was thinking of.

kjishikawa@msn.com · 11-08-09, 01:19 AM

No luck today guys. The wire and connections from the altenator to the fuse box look clean. I'm thinking that I am not getting power to the ECU. Followed directions on this link http://gclcny.com/jh/images/Strife/3FE%20EFI%20Diag.pdf and had power all the way to step 4. No power to pin +B on check connector so I'm figuring some where between the fuse box and check connector I have a problem. That's a long way across the engine bay, any ideas where to start? There's a ton of wires coming into the ECU, any body know which one is supposed to bring the power in so I can test it?
I did replace a fuse that took care of the shifter problem.
I don't know if it helps, but I was driving in wet weather when the engine died and couldn't be restarted.

kjishikawa@msn.com · 11-09-09, 03:17 PM

This is driving me nuts. I'm contemplating dealership. I've been concentrating on the CEL or lack of it. I pulled the instrument cluster to make sure it wasn't burned out and find out it isn't even there! Replaced the bulb and still no CEL. Checking wires and find that I'm not getting power to the 7.5A ignition fuse. Maybe an ECM problem? I can't pull codes or diagnose without a CEL right? Help please.

mkfour · 11-09-09, 03:42 PM

Have you checked/changed the EFI relay?

Something I have written down when I had CNS: Check the EB1 connection with the yellow/red wire coming from the relay.

kjishikawa@msn.com · 11-10-09, 02:40 AM

Yes swapped out the EFI relay. Does the factory rs3000 alarm have a disable switch? Last thing I did recently was get a new FOB, cut a new key and program it.

kjishikawa@msn.com · 11-10-09, 09:23 PM

I think I just screwed up big time!

After checking wires again I found I wasn't getting power through one of the fusible links, the one with the plug which I think is the ignition circuit. The links are brand new and I should have known better, but out of frustration and reading threads of others using a jumper, I jumped this fusible link. Jumped in the car and tried to crank it. Smoke started pouring around the hood as I ran and yanked the ground wire off the battery. The jumper wire's insulation was fried. So how much damage do you think I've done? I also saw smoke coming out from the harness near the glovebox area. Do you think I fried my computer?

re_guderian · 11-10-09, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjishikawa@msn.com

This is driving me nuts. I'm contemplating dealership. I've been concentrating on the CEL or lack of it. I pulled the instrument cluster to make sure it wasn't burned out and find out it isn't even there! Replaced the bulb and still no CEL. Checking wires and find that I'm not getting power to the 7.5A ignition fuse. Maybe an ECM problem? I can't pull codes or diagnose without a CEL right? Help please.

Your '95 should have an OBD-II port in the fuse panel under the dash to pull the codes (even though OBD-II compliance wasn't "official" in the LC until the '96 model year - my 12/94 build has OBD-II). A $40 code reader from Harbor Freight (or equivalent) should help with the codes.

As to the smoking wire harness...

... I don't know... what guage jumper did you use?

one other thought on the lack of codes (besides getting screwed on having the CEL bulb removed) is that if you've had the battery disconnect to replace the FL's, you might have reset the codes? If an issue is present, they should return shortly?

landtank · 11-11-09, 03:33 AM

I think there hsas been reported problem with the engine harness as it passes through the firewall. You might pull that out through the wall into the engine bay and see what it looks like. Pretty easy to do actually.

kjishikawa@msn.com · 11-12-09, 08:44 PM

Pulled the harness like Rick said and found the burnt wire in the first pic. It is black with a red stripe. According to my Chiltons I followed the ignition circuit and checked all switches and everything seemed ok. There is another black with red stripe right next to this one with thicker gauge so now I'm thinking that may be the ignition circuit. The second pic is the harness. The four center ones are the ones I'm looking at. Of the four the bottom right is the one that got fried and the bottom left is the thicker gauge one. Both show continuity to ground. This harness is behind the glove box and connects to go over the dash to the driver side. Chiltons doesn't show the harness plug, can someone with FSM help me please?