[kmcoop7]

Any one have experience with the MAF 3" OME lift? The kit is J springs (850J/863J) "L" shocks, steering damper, sway bar relocate and front control arm drop brackets.

I am debating between this lift and an OME that is a 2-2.5" lift with caster correction bushings. I would probably use an OME medium load spring and standard shocks, likely Slee caster bushings.

My question relates to the on-road performance of these two lifts. Does an 80 with J springs and just front control arm correction/relocation perform well on road? If a J spring is used would most recomend adding relocation brackets for panhard bars, longer f/r control arms, f/r control arm relocation brackets? I won't spend more than 1100 - 1200 on the lift so I don't want to get a spring shock package that I need to spend a nother 1k on parts to make the truck handle well.

My truck is a 97, with lockers and 33" tires, otherwise currently stock. I will add sliders with the lift and probably a front bumper (a light one like Slee) and a small winch a year or so later. Eventually a rear bumper, but again light, I may buildi myself. I will probably upgrade to 315's but down the road. The truck is a weekend warrior only so all it does is off road, but it also our family camping, skiing, hiking, biking ect vehicle, so my wife needs to comfortable driving it on the highway and so do I. We live outside of Vail and spend a lot of time on icy roads. Hence I don't want to adversely affect the handling of the truck on the highway. We also use it for road trips at times. I do wheel the snot out of it though and want it to be capable of trails like Holy Cross with out ripping it apart.

I have read many threads on mud relating to lifts, but none that specifically address the on road performance of 3" vs 2-2.5" lift.

Thanks for any input.

[douglashuft]

I have an ome medium lift and 285's with no armor and it is perfectly adequate. I did add airlift bags to stop the sagging and give better control when towing. Blue slee caster bushings got me back into spec. Even with this lift the axles are offset a bit due to the panhards. When I eventually get 315's I may go with a 1" body lift with slightly taller bumpstops rather than a taller lift and the necessary caster plates and front driveshaft and panhard bars. I bought the truck with the mediums. If I had armor (even lightweight armor) I would have bought the heavies. As I understand it the J's and L's will require a few more mods unless your truck is heavily weighed down. I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong.

[cruiserruf]

i would get slee's kit and call it a day. it's everything you would need. with J springs all around and being light you might have to get new panhards for the rear, maybe the front, rear upper control arms for pinion angle, and dc driveshaft for the front. been doing this one at a time since i've bought the MAF 3" kit.

[calcagno21]

i am curretntly running the MAF 4 plus kit with metal tech 2" spacers up front with 315's and custom winchbumper and winch. It handles just fine on the +oad, although I am getting some vibes up front after the spacers went on, just around highway speeds. other then that no problems

[kmcoop7]

In addition to my original question. What do the majority of us use on their trucks that are lifted with J springs, bearing in mind I don't have any additional weight on the truck and will try to keep the armor weight low? Do most just use CC bushing up front and leave the rest? Or do most go futher with all the associated drop brackets and adjustable arms?

Thanks to all for the wisdom, just trying to spend my $ wisely.

[9180ltd]

I will also be watching this thread , as i have been concidering the MAF level stance kit with the "j's" up front @3" and 2" out back. Interested in feed back on there front control arm brackets for caster correction V/S the correction bushings. I do like the looks of the brackets instead of the bushings.

[kmcoop7]

Sounds like the concensus is that the J springs will require further modification above front caster correction (bushings or drop brackets) and cost to maintain good handling and highway manners?

Is anyone happliy running J springs with Slee bushings or MAF drop brackets? I am not so concerned about my current lack of weight as I will have a bumper/winch and sliders shortly after the lift. Again, I want my wife to be comfortable driving the thing down the highway at 75mph.

[Salue]

I have the MAF 3" kit with the drop bracket, linked here:

OLD MAN EMU/4+PLUS 80 SERIES 3-INCH SUSPENSION KIT

Drives fine on the highway and doesn't wander. It does have a slight rake to it but mine's not that noticable since I carry all my camping gear all the time. I'm currently running 285's but plan on switching to 315's.

Salue

[kmcoop7]

Salue, would you say your rig handles as well as it did stock after the 3" MAF kit? Any vibes, wandering? Is the offset of axles noticable?

[Salue]

Originally Posted by kmcoop7

Salue, would you say your rig handles as well as it did stock after the 3" MAF kit? Any vibes, wandering? Is the offset of axles noticable?

I would say that it actually handles better now since the new springs are stiffer. In my previous post I said it doesn't warnder; come to think of it, it does wander a little bit but I think that has to do with the larger/wider tire. Nothing to worry about though.

Salue

[kmcoop7]

Thanks for the help, maybe the J springs would be better for me since I will use the truck primarily off road. It is nice to be lucky enough to live 3 hours from moab and a half hour from Trails like Holy Cross.

Now if I could just figure out how to keep water out of my distributor when I hit the mud. It isn't much fun always going into mud holes that you know you need some momentum to get through, at a snails pace so you don't stall out. Maybe I need a fan shroud?..............or a new thread.

[95ToyCruiser]

Every truck is different, but if you do the J's it will indeed handle better than stock. If you look at my post http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...12-50x15s.html you will see that I have installed J springs only on my truck, no castor correction, no shocks, no brackets, I also have no bumper/winch in the front.

Mine rides just fine, no vibrations to speak of, I will be doing shocks, brake lines, and sway bar drops, and maybe castor correction in the near future. But it handles good for me, and I drive between 500-1000 miles per week.

I would like to do the castor correction as it wanders the smallest bit, but not a problem unless you plan to drive with no hands

The only reason I don't think I will do the castor is because it will throw off my pinion angle even more (and I may need a DC DS).

The right and best way to do it would be to cut the knuckles free (grind and drill the welds) and turn the knuckles themself to correct the castor, that way you would still have a good DS angle and there would be no need to do CC bushings or plates.

My buddy and I did this on an old Ford with a Dana 44 up front, it worked out well, I would love to go this route, it's just a pain to tear down the knuckles, maybe when I do the PS birf joint I'll rip everything down. But it won't be till spring cause it doesn't fit in the garage anymore

Hope this helps man, I think you will be just fine, just remember that your stock suspention is between 12-18 years old, plus this lift is made for your truck, the spring rate and valving are taylor made for your truck and what you do with it.

I would also consider going with the slee 4" front springs and the 863J's out back as mine is sitting a little higher in the rear and I have a Rack, Bumper, Drawers, Recovery Gear, Tools, etc. in the rear and no bumper up front. I'm gonna have to either throw in some 1" spacers or swap them out for the Slee units.

I wish I would have just shelled out the extra $56 for the Slee units as they are higher quality and will offer 1" more spring (as opposed to a spacer which is solid).

Sorry for the rant, just wanted to give you all the advice I can as I was also confused when shopping around and had a hard time finding advice.

Good Luck 'in

[landtank]

with the Js most find that the caster is just beyond what the 3* bushings will correct for and plates will put you a little high in caster. But that usually is OK because very quickly people will put a spacer up front to level out the truck and then caster is all good.

As far as the drop brackets YUK!

[UCBerzerkeley]

i wanted Js, but decided to play it safe with heavies/heavies and blue bushings. it simply has less things to deal with. if you go to Js, you really should have plates for caster. if you got plates, you are prolly gonna need a DC driveshaft. list goes on. when I decide to really throw some $$$ at the suspension, it will either be FOR or Slee springs, and not just longer OME springs.

also think it depends on your needs. if you know you're only hardcore crawler, get the Js and quit worrying about it how handles onroad. if you both DD and crawl with it, drop the cash on the correct parts.

if you're me, i do a variety of stuff, but most all of it includes hours and hours of driving and washboard roads. im cool on caster, and I can still stuff 315s with 2" bump stops. hard to argue with that to be honest.

[Salue]

Originally Posted by landtank

As far as the drop brackets YUK!

Rick,
What is the reason you don't like the drop brackets? Does it not actually bring the castor back to stock, reduces some clearance or something else?

Salue

[kmcoop7]

95toy, do you have much vibration in your driveline? It looks from your post that you got 5" in the front and almost 6" of lift in the back from your lift, based on your before and after hub to wheel well numbers? I suppose I should be more concerned with drive line vibration, big tires with 40-50 psi wander no matter how planted the rest of the truck is.

Did you replace your u joints? Will a J spring lift wear out u joints every XXX miles?

[UCBerzerkeley]

Originally Posted by Salue

Rick,
What is the reason you don't like the drop brackets? Does it not actually bring the castor back to stock, reduces some clearance or something else?

Salue

I believe the reason is that it reduces clearance and provides one more thing to drag/get wrecked in the undercarriage. Rick produces his own caster plates, which both correct caster and provide a cleaner installation.

[landtank]

I'm not a big fan of lowering the arms with those brackets. One of the reasons I got a lift is to gain clearance. Now to go ahead and intentionally give up that clearance seems counter intuitive to me.

[Salue]

OK, that makes sense. In the future, I may have to look into alternative castor correction if clearance ever becomes an issue.

Salue

[jdlsantos]

On my experience the J OME springs, only need the caster correction bushings, IF you have a heavy bumper and winch.
But each truck is different, I believe that the best way, is after install J OME springs, bumper, winch and all toys, go to see your caster value, if need 2 degree, go for bushing if more than 3 degree go for platter corrector, etc.
good luck

[KRAZIKRAKER]

KMCOOP7

I live in DTOWN and have an OME 2.5 lift that raises the whole truck slightly and looks awesome. Handling has improved to rock solid. in the month that the lift has been on; I have felt little yaw in turns - can turn with confidence at speed and know I won't roll her over. Been there before - not fun. If you would like to take her for a spin let me know. I would be happy to meet a mud member and let you feel the awesome strength from the lift. Would also like to check out some trails out that way.

[95ToyCruiser]

Originally Posted by kmcoop7

95toy, do you have much vibration in your driveline? It looks from your post that you got 5" in the front and almost 6" of lift in the back from your lift, based on your before and after hub to wheel well numbers? I suppose I should be more concerned with drive line vibration, big tires with 40-50 psi wander no matter how planted the rest of the truck is.

Did you replace your u joints? Will a J spring lift wear out u joints every XXX miles?

I have no driveline vibration whatsoever. Keep in mind that I haven't yet corrected for castor, so my pinion angle has stayed close to stock on the axle side of the shafts.

And yes, I netted about 6" in the rear and 5 1/2" in the front, I will be making and installing a front bumper and slider as well as a winch, so I will have to either add a 1" spacer or go with Slee 4" up front to level it out.

But the truck really doesn't handle bad, it wanders a bit, but I think a lot of that can be attributed to the tires. I had to add 21 oz to the pass rear, It was 14 oz off!!!

[kmcoop7]

KrazyKracker,

I'll let you know next time I am in Dtown maybe I can check out your rig. I am also planning on getting a set of sliders from Bumpit OR, so I would like to take a look at yours as well. Let me know anytime you are headed up this way to wheel. There are some good spots up in the flat tops and over in Camp Hale between Leadville and Minturn. I was thinking I would see if the land cruiser might be the only stock vehicle that could make it up Holy Cross.

Thanks to all for the advice. Sounds like it is a crap shoot between J's and heavies from OME, and the only way to be sure I won't have to shell out 2500 for my lift is to go small, or drive it around and not worry about it.

[95ToyCruiser]

Originally Posted by kmcoop7

Thanks to all for the advice. Sounds like it is a **** shoot between J's and heavies from OME, and the only way to be sure I won't have to shell out 2500 for my lift is to go small, or drive it around and not worry about it.

Well the way I look at it is that I have spent $312 to lift my truck.

But I plan on doing the following as well:
1) Shocks - $78 x 4 = $344
2) Brakelines - $150
3) Slee CC brackets - $140
4) Sway bar drop brackets - $41 x 2(front and rear) = $82
5) 1" spacers up front - $45

Total including the springs = $1073 + shipping

A far cry from the $2500 you are speaking of, you'll even have enough left over to do a DC DS if it becomes an issue and a bumper/siders.

Just my 2 cents.

[sleeoffroad]

Originally Posted by kmcoop7

so my wife needs to comfortable driving it on the highway and so do I. We live outside of Vail and spend a lot of time on icy roads. Hence I don't want to adversely affect the handling of the truck on the highway.

FWIW, this statement and the comments from 95ToyCruiser regarding 6" of lift with no caster correction does not go together.

[95ToyCruiser]

Originally Posted by sleeoffroad

FWIW, this statement and the comments from 95ToyCruiser regarding 6" of lift with no caster correction does not go together.

I have 6" in the rear and 5" in the front over a 205,000 mile 15 year old springs, so I'd say it's closer to the advertized 3.5".

And I plan on correcting the castor, dropping the sway bars, and extending the brake lines as well as adjusting the proportioning valve.

After this is done it should handle better than a stock truck with 15 year old suspention components, correct?

[Pin_Head]

Originally Posted by 95ToyCruiser

I would like to do the castor correction as it wanders the smallest bit, but not a problem unless you plan to drive with no hands

The right and best way to do it would be to cut the knuckles free (grind and drill the welds) and turn the knuckles themself to correct the castor, that way you would still have a good DS angle and there would be no need to do CC bushings or plates.

'

I am a newbie on 80s, so help me out here. So why don't people just do a knuckle cut on turn on 80S? It is a common way to deal with high drive line angles and caster on FJ40s?

That way you could have a have a vibration free double cardan shaft on a high lift truck and and still have proper caster. If you use bushings or plates to correct caster, you would have to run a single U joint drive shaft, which should be OK as long as the pinion - driveshaft angle does not exceed approximately 15 degrees. If it is greater than 15 degrees you are going to need a DC shaft and you can't have a large angle at the U joint and differential if you don't want vibration, so the pinion angle needs to be straight..

[landtank]

Originally Posted by Pin_Head

I am a newbie on 80s, so help me out here. So why don't people just do a knuckle cut on turn on 80S? It is a common way to deal with high drive line angles and caster on FJ40s?

For one you run into the same limiting factor of the tie rod hitting the front arms. So there is no advantage in the amount of caster you can get.

Second, with the high pinion front diff, rotating the whole axle puts that diff back to where it was pre lift so you maintain the lubrication abilities to the pinion bearing.

third, caster plates are under 200.00, relatively easy to install and reversible if need be.

the one downside is that you will likely need a DC front shaft to run vib free.

I'm sure Cut and turns have been done but I can't remember anyone posting here.

[Pin_Head]

Originally Posted by landtank

Second, with the high pinion front diff, rotating the whole axle puts that diff back to where it was pre lift so you maintain the lubrication abilities to the pinion bearing.

the one downside is that you will likely need a DC front shaft to run vib free.

.

If you maintain the stock pinion angle on the front diff, it seems that you would have a steep angle at the differential U joint with a DC drive shaft. This would cause vibration because the angle at this joint needs to be close to zero. What is the pinion/driveshaft angle using a DC shaft on a 4 inch lifted truck?

It seems that the only way to get the correct caster and pinion angles at the same time would be to cut and turn the knuckles. Is the oiling problem with the front differential so severe that you can't rotate it up about 10-15 degrees? It has an oil slinger to splash oil on the pinion bearings.

[landtank]

Originally Posted by Pin_Head

If you maintain the stock pinion angle on the front diff, it seems that you would have a steep angle at the differential U joint with a DC drive shaft. This would cause vibration because the angle at this joint needs to be close to zero. What is the pinion/driveshaft angle using a DC shaft on a 4 inch lifted truck?

It seems that the only way to get the correct caster and pinion angles at the same time would be to cut and turn the knuckles. Is the oiling problem with the front differential so severe that you can't rotate it up about 10-15 degrees? It has an oil slinger to splash oil on the pinion bearings.

You might want to take a look under an 80 and how it is setup. You'll understand better why it is how we do it.