Cruiser will not start after engine transplant

z28cp · 10-19-09, 12:21 PM

94 LC. Replaced engine due to a bearing issue. Bought a used engine from CruiserParts. Reusing my original harness. All in and hooked up.

All the electrical stuff seems to work, but I get no cranking in the 'Start' position. Jumpered the starter, it cranks fine, but I have no spark. Have verified all fuses are good, and even replaced the fusible link assembly. Not sure where to go from here.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Dave Z
Bellevue, NE

z28cp · 10-20-09, 02:45 PM

No thoughts, wild or otherwise?

I have checked all of the under hood and under dash fuses, all good. All the dash lights come on, everything seems to work just fine. Just no cranking in the start position, and no spark when I jump the starter.

Really need some help here.

Dave Z.
Bellevue, NE

corsair23 · 10-20-09, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z28cp

All the electrical stuff seems to work, but I get no cranking in the 'Start' position.

Wild guess on my part - did you, or someone, by chance disconnect the NSS plug on the PS of the transmission (I'm guessing the '94s have a NSS)?

With that plug disconnected the truck won't crank...This thread might help - look at post #54 for how to tell based on the dash lights if you have NSS connectivity (again assuming the 94 is the same as a 97)

http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...ty-switch.html

Not sure if a lack of NSS connectivity also interrupts spark though

Grench · 10-20-09, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z28cp

No thoughts, wild or otherwise?

I have checked all of the under hood and under dash fuses, all good. All the dash lights come on, everything seems to work just fine. Just no cranking in the start position, and no spark when I jump the starter.

Really need some help here.

Dave Z.
Bellevue, NE

Welcome!

You're just down the road from me, relatively speaking. We're going to have to do another 80s in Omaha meet up - not a club, just a few of us here.

I'm not an electrician or mechanic, so I'm going to be pointing to obvious stuff too.

Did you check -all- the fuses? Of all things, a rear tail light fuse or wiring fault can actually cause similar symptoms.

Also, there is a little plug or hole forward and left of the shifter. Inside that is a switch that can be depressed with the butt end of a carpenter pencil. Drop one in there and see if that helps - it bypasses a disconnect that can be tripped by several kinds of wiring faults and prevent the engine from starting.

z28cp · 10-20-09, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corsair23

Wild guess on my part - did you, or someone, by chance disconnect the NSS plug on the PS of the transmission (I'm guessing the '94s have a NSS)?

With that plug disconnected the truck won't crank...This thread might help - look at post #54 for how to tell based on the dash lights if you have NSS connectivity (again assuming the 94 is the same as a 97)

http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...ty-switch.html

Not sure if a lack of NSS connectivity also interrupts spark though

It does have the NSS, but it is on the Drivers side, and the connector for it is up by where the block/bellhousing come together. I made very sure those connections were all solid before dropping the engine/trans back in, as they are a b*t$h to get at once in the truck.

Also, I did look at the above referenced thread. It appears the dashlights are different for the 94, as all of the lights in the thread are on with the key just in the Run position. The only light to go out when cranking is the clock... sigh.

I have always been a Chevy guy, and on them, the NSS will interrupt the starter, but not spark. Not to say Toy couldn't have done it differently...

Thanks,
DaveZ
Bellevue, NE

z28cp · 10-20-09, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grench

Welcome!

You're just down the road from me, relatively speaking. We're going to have to do another 80s in Omaha meet up - not a club, just a few of us here.

I'm not an electrician or mechanic, so I'm going to be pointing to obvious stuff too.

Did you check -all- the fuses? Of all things, a rear tail light fuse or wiring fault can actually cause similar symptoms.

Also, there is a little plug or hole forward and left of the shifter. Inside that is a switch that can be depressed with the butt end of a carpenter pencil. Drop one in there and see if that helps - it bypasses a disconnect that can be tripped by several kinds of wiring faults and prevent the engine from starting.

Grench-

Glad to hear from a local. I don't seem to see many Cruisers on the road around here.

Yes, I have checked all of the fuses, a couple of times. While the engine was out of the truck, it sat outside one night. Since it was supposed to rain, and the windows were down, I tried to hook up power so I could put the windows up. Apparently I arced something somewhere, as I:
a) didn't get the windows to go up (ended up covering them with plastic...)
b) didn't have power to much of anything once the engine was back in and power connected.

Found a couple of blown fuses, including the Stoplight fuse, which prevents it from being able to come out of Park if you don't have your foot on the brake. Checked all of the fuses after that, both under hood and under dash. Found another that was blown (don't remember which one). At that point, I also replaced the Fusible Link assembly, just to be safe.

I will add that the wiring harness was not connected to the vehicle, and the ECU was laying in the back seat, not connected to anything, when these fuses were killed by me trying to give it power.

I am familiar with the shift lever interlock you are referring to. We did indeed stuff a screwdriver down there and release it, trying to see if anything worked. At one point, we even had that interlock device completely out of the truck while trying to start it, so no joy there.

Do you happen to know a good LC mechanic in our neck of the woods? Unfortunately, that is about the point I am at right now. I have run out of ideas, good or otherwise, lol.

Thanks,
Dave Z.
Bellevue, NE

Grench · 10-20-09, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z28cp

Grench-

Glad to hear from a local. I don't seem to see many Cruisers on the road around here.

You'll know my truck if you see it. As far as I can tell I'm the only 80 inside of 100 miles with a snorkel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by z28cp

Yes, I have checked all of the fuses, a couple of times. While the engine was out of the truck, it sat outside one night. Since it was supposed to rain, and the windows were down, I tried to hook up power so I could put the windows up. Apparently I arced something somewhere, as I:
a) didn't get the windows to go up (ended up covering them with plastic...)
b) didn't have power to much of anything once the engine was back in and power connected.

OK, now we have more to the story. Is there any chance you connected the battery or power source backwards in the attempt? The 80s battery posts are 180* backwards from a 'standard' battery making this moderately common.

Quote:

Originally Posted by z28cp

Found a couple of blown fuses, including the Stoplight fuse, which prevents it from being able to come out of Park if you don't have your foot on the brake. Checked all of the fuses after that, both under hood and under dash. Found another that was blown (don't remember which one). At that point, I also replaced the Fusible Link assembly, just to be safe.

There are 3? fusible links. Did you replace all of them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by z28cp

I will add that the wiring harness was not connected to the vehicle, and the ECU was laying in the back seat, not connected to anything, when these fuses were killed by me trying to give it power.

That should help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by z28cp

I am familiar with the shift lever interlock you are referring to. We did indeed stuff a screwdriver down there and release it, trying to see if anything worked. At one point, we even had that interlock device completely out of the truck while trying to start it, so no joy there.

Dang. That would have been too simple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by z28cp

Do you happen to know a good LC mechanic in our neck of the woods? Unfortunately, that is about the point I am at right now. I have run out of ideas, good or otherwise, lol.

Thanks,
Dave Z.
Bellevue, NE

A parts & service guy at the Bellevue Toyota dealership told me I had a "Nice Bronco" when I was in there buying antifreeze a few years ago. He wouldn't believe me that it was an actual Toyota until I popped the hood and showed him the logo on the valve cover. The Millard dealership's guys told me, "never knew Toyota made somethin' like that." I haven't bothered to go to the one in Old Mill with it. So, in my humble experience, the local dealerships are clueless on Landcruisers.

I have had bushings pressed in, alignments and TREs done at D&D automotive. Nice guys - but not experts on these trucks.

My fallback is my brother-in-law in Lincoln. Most of the major work I've done on my truck, I've done with his help in his garage.

I have the FSM and EWD books if you want to borrow them. If you're going to keep your truck for a long time, you'll want to get your own copies. Very handy.

We should talk. PM me your number if you'd like to. I can't promise much though. I'm not a mechanic or an electrician.

z28cp · 10-22-09, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grench

You'll know my truck if you see it. As far as I can tell I'm the only 80 inside of 100 miles with a snorkel.

OK, now we have more to the story. Is there any chance you connected the battery or power source backwards in the attempt? The 80s battery posts are 180* backwards from a 'standard' battery making this moderately common.

Yeah, the battery is just like some Fords. Having seen a battery blow up from being jumped backwards, I am very conscious of this when handling battery cables. So no, it didn't get hooked up backwards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grench

There are 3? fusible links. Did you replace all of them?

Yes, there are 3. They come as one unit, which I have replaced, just to be sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grench

That should help.

Thankfully, lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grench

Dang. That would have been too simple.

Yeah, simpe and me don't usually end up going together, lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grench

A parts & service guy at the Bellevue Toyota dealership told me I had a "Nice Bronco" when I was in there buying antifreeze a few years ago. He wouldn't believe me that it was an actual Toyota until I popped the hood and showed him the logo on the valve cover. The Millard dealership's guys told me, "never knew Toyota made somethin' like that." I haven't bothered to go to the one in Old Mill with it. So, in my humble experience, the local dealerships are clueless on Landcruisers.

Gee, that's encouraging, lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grench

I have had bushings pressed in, alignments and TREs done at D&D automotive. Nice guys - but not experts on these trucks.

My fallback is my brother-in-law in Lincoln. Most of the major work I've done on my truck, I've done with his help in his garage.

I have the FSM and EWD books if you want to borrow them. If you're going to keep your truck for a long time, you'll want to get your own copies. Very handy.

We should talk. PM me your number if you'd like to. I can't promise much though. I'm not a mechanic or an electrician.

Thanks very much for the offer of the FSM and EWD books. I may just take you up on that offer. Will PM you soon.

Thanks!!

Dave Z.
Bellevue, NE

Grench · 10-22-09, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z28cp

Thanks very much for the offer of the FSM and EWD books. I may just take you up on that offer. Will PM you soon.

No problem. May be able to get them to you tomorrow evening or Saturday. Keep in mind, though, my books are for the '96. There are some variations between the model years, but the big components seem to be very similar.

Dave 2000 · 10-23-09, 04:14 AM

Earth cable not connected or just bad?

regards

Dave

jlg32281 · 10-23-09, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave 2000

Earth cable not connected or just bad?

regards

Dave

by earth cable, he means ground (i think). this is my suggestion as well. it sounds like a bad ground it the starter only turns when jumped. also check the starter and fuel pump relays, but i'm betting on a bad ground.

TX Cruiser · 10-23-09, 05:57 AM

Do you have an alarm on it? The 94 we have has an aftermarket (I don't think it's factory anyway) alarm which has to be reset manually if the battery is disconnected or discharged. On ours, there's a little toggle switch on the kick panel on the drivers side.

z28cp · 10-23-09, 04:38 PM

Grench-

Sent you a PM.

DaveZ.

z28cp · 10-23-09, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave 2000

Earth cable not connected or just bad?

regards

Dave

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlg32281

by earth cable, he means ground (i think). this is my suggestion as well. it sounds like a bad ground it the starter only turns when jumped. also check the starter and fuel pump relays, but i'm betting on a bad ground.

Yep, understood earth cable. I'm sure they are all hooked up, but it certainly can't hurt to check them again.

Thanks!
DaveZ.

z28cp · 10-23-09, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TX Cruiser

Do you have an alarm on it? The 94 we have has an aftermarket (I don't think it's factory anyway) alarm which has to be reset manually if the battery is disconnected or discharged. On ours, there's a little toggle switch on the kick panel on the drivers side.

TX Cruiser-

Ours just has the factory alarm. I have had the battery unhooked before and never had an issue when hooking it back up, so don't *think* that is it....

DaveZ.

IdahoDoug · 10-23-09, 05:55 PM

Just my useless two cents here - if you end up hiring someone to look into it, don't bother trying to find a LandCruiser expert. You're looking for an automotive electrician. Someone who will painstakingly track and check connections and grounds with a meter.

DougM

galandcruiser97 · 10-23-09, 06:04 PM

I just hope no one has the issue i'm having.

retrofive · 10-23-09, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galandcruiser97

I just hope no one has the issue i'm having.

Not to hi-jack the thread, but what are "your" issues??

z28cp · 10-30-09, 04:27 PM

Well, I resolved the issue last Saturday. Turned out I had missed plugging in one of the connectors behind the glovebox. When they went in thru the firewall, one of the connectors decided to take a turn and go hide behind the heater core.

I was examining the harness that came off of the replacement engine, looking for an obvious place I may have missed connecting one, or just didn't get it pushed all the way together. As I looked at the end with the computer plug-ins on it, I noted that there were 3 other connectors. It ran thru my mind that I only remembered plugging in 2 up under the dash.

Took me half an hour to convince that one connector to go to the correct place so I could plug it in.

Soon as it was plugged in, she fired right up! Been running great ever since, though there is one remaining issue...

How do you bleed the cooling system? It had great heat before, but now it is just luke warm. Radiator is full, can watch heater valve travel its full range, temp gauge running where it always has, radiator hoses getting hot, so I am assuming I have an air bubble up around the heater valve, since it is a little bit higher than the radiator cap.

Thanks,
DaveZ.

IdahoDoug · 10-30-09, 10:07 PM

Park the truck nose high on something, and after it's fully warmed up, rev the engine up and down - 3k is all you need at the top end. Seems to displace the air very effectively after a couple minutes max. Did you put in a new thermostat, and if so did you put the little rattle valve thing at the top (12 oClock)? Not doing it hinders air displacement but it will eventually get through to don't tear into it just for this.

Congratulations on figuring it out. That was a really good save! I'm always amazed at the convoluted ways the human memory works and your recollection about "two connectors" is a perfect example.

DougM

Dave 2000 · 10-31-09, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlg32281

by earth cable, he means ground (i think). this is my suggestion as well. it sounds like a bad ground it the starter only turns when jumped. also check the starter and fuel pump relays, but i'm betting on a bad ground.

No.....I do mean earth

In the UK the leads are denoted positive and negative but a connection to the chassis is called 'earth' yeh I know.

regards
Dave

jlg32281 · 10-31-09, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave 2000

No.....I do mean earth

In the UK the leads are denoted positive and negative but a connection to the chassis is called 'earth' yeh I know.

regards
Dave

I see you're in Spain and you might be a little lost in the translation or you learned English from a Brit. You should come learn real English (American English). Lol. If you're just translating, tierra = ground and tierra = earth. What part of Spain are you in? When I lived there, I rarely saw 80's. I saw a lot more when I would take the ferry over to Morrocco.