Inner Axle Seal - Should I Try It?

CaptainKirk · 10-16-09, 03:36 PM

My '94 LC has 245K miles on it and it (I am the original owner) has been serviced regularly by a Freind who is a Toyota Mechanic - he does their specialized troubleshooting - fly's everywhere for Lexus now when the regulars can't find a gremlin. I beleive he is a high value trouble shooting source to Lexus/Toyota so I beleive what he is saying. He tells me the reason the diff fluid is leaking out the knuckle is the inner seal and based what I have been able to find here (search engine not recognizing my word choices for some reason), it sounds like he is correct. I have scanned through several threads looking for pictures, video and instructions but have found only minor commentary, but enough to assume he is correct in his prognosis.

I have a synthetic Mobil 1 fetish and I have changed the diff fluid every 35K along with having him pack the bearings with synthetic grease, clear out and extend the vents, etc., so I do not anticipate bearing or gear failure. Not hearing anything more than the drivetrain whine I have heard in it since it was new. The unit is never off road so it hasn't been under any stress other than street driving. This appears to be the left front inner seal.

I asked him to let me know when he can do the job and how much and he is avoiding me - complained about how messy the job is.

Okay, I am not a stranger to turning wrenches - did it for a living for 15 years. However, I haven't been in an axle for 35 years. I have ordered the OEM repair manual from Toyota Publications ($95.00) and I am a capable mechanic. Should I attempt this job? Can someone help me understand how to use the "Search This Forum" and actually get a result so that I can get the inside scoop on doing this job? For some reason the search engine returns "no results found".

I have impact tools and all the other stuff - I've rebuilt motors back in the day, and I can't fathom why the heck I can't do this job for the theraputic value if not to save the money as well? Thoughts or recommendations?

Also, if I am having a brain fart on the search engine issue as stated above, cut me a break.....just this once. I am a newbie here, but not a newbie LC owner. My rig is nearly as perfect as the day i bought it so I KNOW YOU RESPECT THAT!

OK, I've said my part - lay it on me..............I'm ready.

rhyary · 10-16-09, 03:43 PM

Check the FAQ for front axle rebuild

Here is the link for you:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...build-faq.html

Kaoscruizer · 10-16-09, 03:43 PM

Well Capt .. I don't have a CLUE and I am going to service my front axle next week!

Go to the FAQ section at the top of this Forum page. Look in the maintenance section. You will find everything you need. There is even a member here that sells a DVD to walk you through it!

You will have NO problem at all .. a walk in the park for you.

Oh .. and I almost forgot the most important thing

WELCOME!

Ihasfip · 10-16-09, 04:04 PM

Its easy. I think these are the tools you'll need if I remember right. I am not including normal things like hammers, jacks, etc.

12mm socket or wrench
14mm socket or wrench
17mm socket or wrench
24mm socket
54mm spindle nut socket
Large allen (don't remeber the size)
Wheel bearing grease (2lbs is plenty)
EP Moly grease (birfs)(3-4 tubes)
80/90 Gear oil (~3qts)
Seal puller
Seal driver (or block of wood, or punch or whatever)
Torque wrench
Silicon (or new gaskets)
Marlin Crawler inner axle seal ( make sure they send you the right size

)

That should be everything you need unless you are going to pull the knuckle off as well. If I forgot anything feel free to correct me.

Drain gear oil. 21MM to get the wheel off. 17MM to get the caliper off. 12MM to remove the drive flange. 54MM to remove the hub/rotor. 14 MM to remove backing plate/spindle.12MM to remove ABS sensor. Remove axle/birf. Remove old seal. Install new seal and reverse. Thats about the gist of it, I do believe.

D

Ihasfip · 10-16-09, 04:05 PM

Oh, I just realized you said 04 LC? Did you mean 94?

D

blzrfn · 10-16-09, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ihasfip

Oh, I just realized you said 04 LC? Did you mean 94?

D

I'm sure its a 94, otherwise he is driving about 50k miles a year and if that were the case he would be doing this bi-annually.

CaptainKirk · 10-16-09, 04:18 PM

Sorry all - I did mean it is a 1994! You guys have convinced me to do this job. I wonder if this is the time to replace the ABS sensor since I have had an occassional ABS warning? I have already decided to replace the rotors even though they only have about 20K miles on them.

cmiller114 · 10-16-09, 04:34 PM

You can do it....no sweat. The FSM makes reference to several SST's. You have to use substitutes or spend a fortune at Toyota. The FAQ posted above is very good. And, oh yea.....it's messy. I bought a 2' x 3' drip pan to save my garage floor. Where are you located? If you're near central PA, I'll come over and dent your beer inventory

CaptainKirk · 10-16-09, 04:44 PM

I am located in Overland Park, Kansas, a suburb of Kansas City. If you were here, you could drink my beer and my hard liquor no problem!

packetstormin · 10-16-09, 04:51 PM

You can do it man. Its not really tough if you have the right tools. Buy lots of brake cleaner, like 5 or 6 cans. The harbor freight race/seal installing tool is great for installing new seals and races. Use the tapered end to install races and the flat side to do the seals, I had to learn the hard way on the seals. Used the tire and wheel method to change the rotors if you dont have air tools, guys here on mud pointed me in that direction and it worked great. Biggest thing is prepare for it. I took on the job thinking it would be a simple solid front axle rebuild, I was wrong it turned into a brake job, rotors and new calipers, so budget accordingly and call around to see who has rotors and calipers in stock so you know where to go if it comes down to that. Oh get some pb blaster and put it on all the bolts the night before, it will save you a few 4 letter words in the end. Oh and ask away, everybody has been very helpfull here.

CaptainKirk · 10-16-09, 05:10 PM

Okay guys. Two more questions. Should I do both sides since I am tearing into the axle or just the side that is leaking? I don't know the trends of this seal failing and if it is a hit and miss, I could see an arguement not to fix what ain't broken.

2nd question - if I am at the location of the ABS wheels speed sensor, should I replace the aging sensor/unit just for s*$t's and giggles to head off a future repair?

blzrfn · 10-16-09, 05:14 PM

Definitely do both sides, it will only add a little bit of time and you don't want to get all messy again any time soon.

As for the ABS, I have no idea as I don't have ABS nor is it in my FSM.

packetstormin · 10-16-09, 05:25 PM

Abs sensor just bolts into the top of the knuckle. I believe all you have to do is just follow the wire back to the harness and unhook it.

motorcoach123 · 10-16-09, 05:26 PM

Cap'n

Welcone!

Consider purchasing the DVD that one of the guys sells here on 'mud....I turn wrenches for a living, but no 4WD experience, and that DVD really did help. Just cant remember who sells it....could be Elmariachi?
I also replaced the rotors, rebuilt the calipers and installed the 100 series Toy brake pads while doing the front axle. FWIW

Cheers,

Gord

Ebag333 · 10-16-09, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainKirk

I wonder if this is the time to replace the ABS sensor since I have had an occassional ABS warning?

Most likely just metal shavings stuck to the ABS sensor. Pull it and clean.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainKirk

I have already decided to replace the rotors even though they only have about 20K miles on them.

Why are you replacing them?

CaptainKirk · 10-16-09, 08:12 PM

Motorcoach - why use the Series 100 pads? Will they fit stock calipers? The reason I was goiong to replace the sensor is because I would be right there - I have had an intermitent ABS indicator come on and I was led to beleive that it was a speed sensor beginning to fail.

firetruck41 · 10-16-09, 10:04 PM

You can do the axle job, it is fairly easy, but it is messy and time consuming. I would just clean the ABS sensor. If I recall correctly, it is very easy to replace, if you need to do it later, you don't need to disassemble or tear down the axle/seals to get to it. Also, yes, do both sides, the second side will go much quicker, and you only have to ruin one set of clothes.

bruff · 10-16-09, 10:30 PM

If I can do it, you can do it! I have done this messy job once and getting parts together to do it again (on another 80 series).

And just so you know, I'm an Emergency Room Nurse - no where close to a machinery mechanic, but sometimes a human body mechanic!

unwiredadventures · 10-16-09, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainKirk

Okay, I am not a stranger to turning wrenches - did it for a living for 15 years. However, I haven't been in an axle for 35 years.

It had been 30 years since I took auto shop in High School when I did the front axle in my 80. Make sure you read the FAQ and the service manual. Buy twice as many rags and paper towels you think you need and you'll be ready.

Dave 2000 · 10-16-09, 11:16 PM

Go for it!! It's really is easy stuff. I would add to the list of 'stuff' needed a few kithen rolls as cloth will just move the grease about, and a copper mallet to pursuade the small cones to loosen on the drive flange. Recheck the lower arm bolts (4) after a week or so as they have a habit of loosening.

I cannot remember if the kit has the upper and lower bearings for the swivel hub, if not I would add them to my list, again a doddle to sort, just keep an eye out for any shims and their location.

Hope that helps

regards

Dave

firetruck41 · 10-16-09, 11:27 PM

You can get the seals/gasket/all Koyo bearings as a kit, from Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters, for about $185, that covers both sides.

corsair23 · 10-17-09, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainKirk

Motorcoach - why use the Series 100 pads? Will they fit stock calipers?

Many 80 series owners "upgrade" to the 100 series pads (front only - the 100 series pads don't fit in the rear)...IIRC you want the early year 100 series pads. The reason is that they last longer (bigger and more material) and most feel they give you a slight improvement in braking. That said, if your 80 is a street rig and the pads you have are fairly new then I'd probably forget about it.

That said, since the 100 series pads are bigger the wear area on the rotor will be different so it is highly recommended that you either replace the front rotors at the same time or at a minimum have your existing ones turned. If you really only have 20K miles on your existing front rotors I'd be inclined to just have the existing ones turned vs. replacing them if you decide to move up to the 100 series pads.

If you do upgrade to the 100 series pads the other thing to note is that the anti squeal shim that normally sits on the back of the pads will not initially fit with the 100 series pads in place. You can always go back in later and reinstall them after the pads wear down a bit.

Another thing to think about is that if you do replace the rotors and pads then you'll likely need to/want to bleed the brakes. Keep that in mind as it will be added steps/time for you. Oh, and don't forget to "bed in" the new pads once you install them if you go that route

Parts wise, Cruiserdan is another excellent source for parts and he gives MUD members a healthy discount...So, if you don't have a local source he can set you up. The nice thing is all you need to do is tell him what you are planning to do and he'll tell you exactly what parts you need at a minimum and what parts you might want to consider as optional based on age of your vehicle (i.e. seals will be required for sure but you might also want to consider new bearings given the mileage/age of your 80)

CaptainKirk · 10-20-09, 08:49 AM

A new consideration since I am moving forward that came to mind - since I will have the axles out of the truck doing the seal replacement etc., would this be the time to install a locking diff in the front? At least install the unit then come back to the installation of the controls that engage the unit when time permits?

Or am I crazy for thinking of doing this myself and if not, does this expand the scope of the seal R&R to an extent that it doesn't make sense when what I want to do is get my beloved cruiser back on the daily road?

Ebag333 · 10-20-09, 10:43 AM

Would depend on what locking unit you were planning on putting in there, and how much time you could afford to have it down for.

It would greatly increase the scope of the project.

corsair23 · 10-20-09, 01:59 PM

Now would be a great time but you've just increased your scope on an exponential level...If you are thinking of swapping in an OEM locked 3rd member from a donor axle you'll probably want to read up on that. As I recall, swapping in a locked 3rd member or even just the locking mechanism if that is possible requires grinding down the axle housing to accomodate the locker. If you go with an ARB locker (I'd only put a selectable locker up front) that would probably be easier but still a dramatic increase in your scope, and cost

What about gears? If you are considering needing a locker then that leads to bigger tires and bigger tires need new gears (suggested is 4.88s for 315s). I've been running around on 285s with stock gears for 2+ years but I am right now servicing the front and rear axles and going to 4.88s to get ready to put on 315s.

My honest opinion would be to forgo the front locker...If you feel you need a locker, get a locked OEM axle for the rear to swap in or put in an ARB and call it good for now. I can't see a lot of value in having a locked front axle but no rear locker...If you decide to put in a locker down the road you get to redo a lot of the labor you are doing now but you don't have to replace the parts...Just get it far enough to get the axles out, install the locker, replace the inner axle seal, grease the bearings and birf, and put it back together.

CaptainKirk · 10-20-09, 02:05 PM

I've put so much into keeping the exterior perfect (along with the mechanical), I just can't see me going and doing serious off roading with my street only vehicle. Therefore, I guess other than being able to have the unstoppable locakable front/rear to grin about when I put my head on the pillow at night, it seems the general concensus is that it would be a serious waste of effort and cash. Even if I installed "lockers" (?), I would stay with the factory wheels and tires. Knowing that as well, would you further suggest not wasting my time on lockers......ever?

blzrfn · 10-20-09, 02:25 PM

If you don't ever plan on taking your truck off-road there is very little good reason to install lockers.

corsair23 · 10-20-09, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainKirk

Even if I installed "lockers" (?), I would stay with the factory wheels and tires. Knowing that as well, would you further suggest not wasting my time on lockers......ever?

IMO definitely...The only value to you of going through adding lockers (whether OEM or ARB etc) would be resell value and we all know that you NEVER get the value out of mods that you put into them. For you the value of adding lockers would only be realized if/when you go to sell the 80 as having lockers may be the difference between a "quicker" sell vs. a longer sell.

I went through the same thought/question process on my unlocked FZJ80 and decided to leave it alone. There are a lot better things to do with the $1500+ you are probably looking at to properly add front and rear lockers

Being the original owner, having 245K miles, and no desire to go off road I'd put the $$ into a maintenance fund to maybe fund an engine rebuild down the road...

CaptainKirk · 11-04-09, 07:41 AM

Well guys, I beleive I have completed the rebuild successfully with one caveat - I did not use a fish scale to check the preload on the hub bearings. I am going to run the truck for about 100 miles and then revisit that topic with a newly purchased scale - anyone know where I should go to buy one?

Also, I would like to thank everyone for the assistance, the offers of assistance and for the MUD site as a resource. Based on the money I saved, I am going to offer up a contribution to the site - anyone know who I contact to do that?

Ebag333 · 11-04-09, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainKirk

Well guys, I beleive I have completed the rebuild successfully with one caveat - I did not use a fish scale to check the preload on the hub bearings. I am going to run the truck for about 100 miles and then revisit that topic with a newly purchased scale - anyone know where I should go to buy one?

Just get any digital fish scale. Walmart works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainKirk

Also, I would like to thank everyone for the assistance, the offers of assistance and for the MUD site as a resource. Based on the money I saved, I am going to offer up a contribution to the site - anyone know who I contact to do that?

http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...upporters.html