Engine Woes - Rod Bearings?

reraub · 10-29-09, 06:26 PM

Just disc. the engine from the tranny at the flexplate you will be glad you did it is a horrible beast to pull that 8 mile long train out in 1 piece. just put somthing under the tranny to keep it level remove your fan and if your worried about buggerin your radiator pull it out.

SBFJ60FIG · 10-29-09, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hsiaoer

Do you guys really think it's easier separating the two, then pulling?

I have read several thread discussing how it is easier just pulling everything connected. I'm pretty sure I have to pull the radiator either way.

You do not need to pull the radiator, just the hood if you're smart and not trying to cut corners.

No way would it be easier to pull the motor and trans, and x-fer as one unit...that's crazy talk. Think about it, that would reach to nearly the end of the dam truck; core support would need to removed, radiator, condenser, et cetera. It's only like eight bolts, plus, what, a few bolts on the torque converter to separate the motor and trans.

You should be able do a motor swap in one maybe two weekends with unforeseen issues.

hsiaoer · 10-29-09, 07:22 PM

wow, good thing you all are around. I would have definitely done too much work! I'll disconnect the two and just buy the engine!

alia176 · 10-29-09, 08:18 PM

I'd definitely pull the radiator out and reduce the chances of ruining the fins accidentally. All it takes is an errant wrench and you end up with a hole in the radiator.

Another tip is to pull the ECU harness from the ECU through the firewall and lay it on top of the engine. Disconnect the ecu harness from the transmission and Tcase connectors also. This will save you some heartache in the long run by not having to disconnect everything from the engine before pulling it out.

Good luck.

hsiaoer · 10-31-09, 01:21 AM

Ok all ye divide and conquer peps. How do I get at the two bolts on top of the tranny to separate it from the engine? They don't seem reachable at any angle I have tried. Can I lower the crossmember? Or somehow make that space bigger?

SBFJ60FIG · 10-31-09, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hsiaoer

Ok all ye divide and conquer peps. How do I get at the two bolts on top of the tranny to separate it from the engine? They don't seem reachable at any angle I have tried. Can I lower the crossmember? Or somehow make that space bigger?

They are 17mm right? This is just figure it out on the roll kinda stuff...for me it will usually be this:

http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_101...niversal+joint

Then a lot of extentsion. Or a box wrench, or even better one of these is super helpful:

http://www.gearwrench.com/catalog/wr...x_combination/

I'm sure however, but the time you read this those two bolts are already out!

alia176 · 10-31-09, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hsiaoer

Ok all ye divide and conquer peps. How do I get at the two bolts on top of the tranny to separate it from the engine? They don't seem reachable at any angle I have tried. Can I lower the crossmember? Or somehow make that space bigger?

I PM'ed you back. Yes, you can lower the cross member and that will allow some more wiggle room. You'll need about 2' of extensions with a wobbly at the end. If memory serves, I think all bell housing bolts are 14mm.

good luck.

HarleyHetz · 11-01-09, 09:08 AM

Yea, support that tranny with a floor jack before removing the cross member, then when you let it down, do it real slow and have a helper watching from up above so you don't smash the engine into the firewall...

SBFJ60FIG · 11-02-09, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alia176

I PM'ed you back. Yes, you can lower the cross member and that will allow some more wiggle room. You'll need about 2' of extensions with a wobbly at the end. If memory serves, I think all bell housing bolts are 14mm.

good luck.

I have not had to lower the trans to get those bolts out, more work, more complexity.

However, I have little skinny girly arms...find a neighborhood kid with little t-rex arms and make him help you!

BTW, this just occurred to me...when you have the motor out, you may want to look at your rear heater tubes...they tend to get rusty and crappy looking...might be a good time to take them off, clean them and Rhino line them, or Line-X or whatever and replace the rear hoses too.

hsiaoer · 11-02-09, 10:07 AM

Well, I've been wrapping prepping my new engine going in, like wrapping the wire loom and doing the HH. I can't be PHH when its sitting on your garage floor. I guess I did have to sit down with a leg on each side of the engine. That's about all the flexibility it took.

SBFJ I have pretty girly arms too, so I'll try it with a ratchet wrench or U-joint. I think if I pop off the center console from inside I'll have pretty good access to the top side. I'll do that before I mess with removing the crossmember.

hsiaoer · 11-03-09, 09:07 AM

Side note:

A couple months ago when I started on Mud, I was really dreading doing the PHH. I don't know what all you sissy's are whining about. I sat down to take it off and before I could leisurely unwind the hose clamp, it swung off into my lap!

Back on Topic:

I have disconnected mostly everything in the engine bay for this motor swap. Remaining items are the tranny/flexplate, the exhaust pipes, and ecu wiring.

I still have no idea how to get to the bolts on top of the tranny. I've tried going through the gear shifter hole (too far back), lowering the crossmember (still not enough room), and running some long extensions with wobbles up there (blind approach).

Any other tips? A ratcheting wrench won't work because there is a lip on the tranny. How low can I safely lower the crossmember? I was worried because my exhaust is still connected so I'll try again after I get that all separated.

SBFJ60FIG · 11-03-09, 11:23 AM

Dunno what to tell you brother. Long long long long long long extension with a wobble on the end, and maybe a u-joint, and air and impact. Those bolts are not usually too tight. It can be done...and I do not go in from the shifter, or lower the x-member.

Get that flywheel off of the new motor and put a rear main seal on bro...piece of cake now...piece of pooh later on. Leaking or not I'd pop a new one in!

Snowtire · 11-03-09, 11:54 AM

What follows is advice you probably already know. But just in case here goes. And if SBFJ says it can be done, use that as a confidence builder. I'd get some extensions, take a nice deep breath, go out to the truck when you aren't frustrated, and give it another go. Take off your watch and rings and long sleeves. Just get to be one with the truck. Try different body positions under the truck. Try to get the extension on the bolt, and be willing to take 30 minutes fumbling and checking until you get it. Probably easiest to seat the socket on the bolt without the ratchet attached. Once you can tell from finger torque that it's seated, get the ratchet on. Be prepared for some wind-up torque in the Rube Goldberg chain of extensions, but it should be able to deliver enough torque to the bolt to eventually pop it with enough persuasion. Good luck. I'm in Utah on business next weekend (13th), and I don't want to have to come and humiliate you by getting it out on my first try....

And I agree about RMS. Just a simple matter with the motor out, but a MAJOR pita later.

landtank · 11-03-09, 12:23 PM

just did and engine swap on a 1FZ-FE this week and what I found to make a huge difference when pulling just the engine is to first remove the motor mounts.

Raise the engine slightly, remove mounts, support tranny, disconnect tranny, remove engine.

Installing is also made easier as you can drop the engine down lower than the tranny and with a leveler, line everything up quite easily. Once bolted to the tranny again you raise everything up and install the mounts.

hsiaoer · 11-03-09, 01:10 PM

I'm disregarding the comment of what you've accomplished in a weekend what I've been working on for what seems like ages.

I like your take though. I even thought about taking out the mount pucks to lower the engine, but threw it out as nonsense and told myself to suck it up and be like "SBFJ".

Snowtire, lets hope that I've at least got three bolts figured out by the 13th, sheesh! I actually haven't hit any frustration because each time I get under there, I'm look around and feel around, scratch my head, and move on to doing something else.

HarleyHetz · 11-03-09, 03:22 PM

I've never done an 80, but I've pulled motors on a ton of other stuff, and those bolts are always the same a PITA!!!! If you disconnect your exhaust and everything else, you should be able to lower the tranny enough to actually SEE the bolts from the back of the tranny. You can't come anywhere near reaching them, but you can "see" them. Then go at them with your extensions and swivel joint. I actually have an extension that is 3/8" drive on the male end and 1/2" drive on the female end. It is about 6' long...that makes it real nice because I can hook up my impact gun, once I get on them, they are out in a matter of seconds!!! Use a helper when lowering the tranny. You can probably go a lot lower than you think you can from under the truck. You just don't wanna go crushing stuff on the firewall. I know that mine has a bunch of heater hoses and vaccum hoses there...good luck, and keep us posted.

*Oh, I almost forgot. Another tool that I found very handy is a "swivel socket" basically a socket that has the swivel built right in. That would make it easier if you didn't want to lower the tranny at all. You don't have a lot of room between the bottom of the firewall and the top of the tranny. The shorter tool makes it a bit easier to get on. You can find them at most any reputable auto parts store or sears...

SBFJ60FIG · 11-03-09, 04:44 PM

That's good advice taking off the engine mounts and dropping er down a little more. And for sure, having the right state of mine (viz, not super pissed off from having messed around with it all dam DAY) makes all the difference in the world.

I learned this lesson in the last four years...the first thirty-four years of my life would have been much nicer if I'd known this.

If you have a helper that's good too...b/c you cannot see where you're going with the socket when under the truck...what I do is usually slink my hand up to the bolt, then with the other arm move the extensions and socket into place. Be sure you have everything you need ready....sockets, and a breaker bar if you're not using air. I'm sure I've made the mistake of getting the socket on and then not being able to reach the breaker bar/impact. The bolts are a PITA to get to, but they are not usually super tight, so you should be able to break them loose W/O too much effort.

Expect your arms to get cut/scratched, etc. And as always, be careful, engines and cars are heavy things...sucks when they fall on you. The tranny...that would just bruise ya...the rest would mess your shit up good!

Sorry...we're all trying to remember all the tricks as you go...but the engine mounts have to come out anyway...and that's good advice for reinstall. A lot easier to not have to mess around with then until the motor and trans are mated. Then put them on!

I cannot wait to get your core...maybe!

Don't get too frustrated...I'm sure my thinking I'd have it done in a weekend is hyperbole!!! But when I'm doing motor work I usually work all day...like ALL day, and very little breaks...and having no kids, and typically understanding girlfriends helps too!

hsiaoer · 11-04-09, 09:34 AM

Thanks for all the advice. I started tonight at 9pm thinking I would get the mounts out and lower it to see everything. It wasn't meant to be as you have to lift it a good deal more than I felt comfortable to get the mounts + bolts off.

I lowered the crossmember as much as I felt comfortable and stuck my left arm up from the driver side. To my total amazement, I felt a bolt! I stuck my 2' extension and u-joint on it and broke it free.

On the passenger side, I had to disconnect the transmission bar to get access and in the end I had the ratchet in my left had on the driver side, and my right hand guiding the socket on the passenger side. Broke it free!

I got everything up and out just about midnight. Obligatory camera phone proof:

Should I be worried about getting these all back together?

hsiaoer · 11-04-09, 09:35 AM

Couldn't have done it without the finer points of advice and confidence building from you gurus.

Thanks a TON!

SBFJ60FIG · 11-04-09, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hsiaoer

Should I be worried about getting these all back together?

Naw...when you've had enough Toyota engines out as we all here have collectively, you can just take a photo of your extra bolts/parts and most of us can help ID them.

And actually, of all the motors I've installed...the IFZ-FE connected to the trans WAY easier than most. A 3VZE with an automatic trans is a total bitch. The 1FZ's seem to come together with the tranny as if magnetically drawn to each other.

Now put the oil pan back on my new core engine please!

And congrats on getting the motor out! And remember, out is most of the time easier then "in," so you've got that to look forward to!

HarleyHetz · 11-04-09, 03:29 PM

The key to getting it back together is to take lots of pictures from lots of angles, seems like you will always miss one or two that you "wish" you had, but process of elimination will go a long way if you have pics of "most" of it!!
Congrats on the removal, now get some sleep and get that replacement back in the hole!!

hsiaoer · 11-04-09, 03:34 PM

What! That was the easy part! At least, now I have the benefit of knowing how it supposed to all go back together, right...?

Snowtire · 11-04-09, 07:59 PM

Yah dude! Congrats. You'll get it back together.

AJP · 11-05-09, 08:04 AM

Well done! FYI ..the FSM calls for pulling the motor with the transmission. It is a very lengthy procedure - I have great admiration for you!!

HarleyHetz · 11-05-09, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJP

Well done! FYI ..the FSM calls for pulling the motor with the transmission. It is a very lengthy procedure - I have great admiration for you!!

If you had the equipment that the factory has (lift, hoist, all the factory tools) that probably wouldn't be that hard...but no way I'd try it in my driveway...just too easy to seperate them.

knorrena · 11-05-09, 12:00 PM

I did not read the rest of the thread so if my comments have already been mentioned, so be it. The problems on damaged journal might have been caused by a failed HG. Water is not so compressible. If the HG failed at cyl5 then that cylinder may have to work very and this may have damaged the journal.

Were I you I would just polish it up and drop a new bearing in and see how long it lasts. I did it once in my 40 but on all journals. I was running too viscous an oil and too little oil for the temp (-45*C) and while I was filling it with gas, the engine seized. It ran for about 40k kms then I sold it. I dont know how long that repair lasted.

Karl

hsiaoer · 11-05-09, 12:27 PM

I am still uncertain why the bearing spun. I had it for about 1000 miles when it spun. When I checked it out, it showed no exterior leaks from the HG, compression was good, and the PO said the HG was done 70k ago. It did not smoke, and in the 1000 mi I had it, it burned 0 oil. The cause for failure is still a mystery. I pulled the oil pans and mic'd the spun journal and it was egg shaped. The overwhelming consensus was it wouldn't have worked at all to polish and slap another bearing in.

Snowtire · 11-05-09, 03:08 PM

Karl, check out the earlier messages. We were hoping for this and hsiaoer was the man for the job, but it was too far gone.

AJP, standard procedure at all auto plants I have ever visited where they are assembling body-on-frame vehicles is to mate engine and transmission, and then put the whole thing in the ladder frame, and then drop the body onto the frame. The engine/trans unit is a lot easier to get at if there is no body in the way. Incidentally, the engine swap procedure for non-start engines (very few in a modern plant) at many plants is to pull the body off and do an engine/trans swap offline in the repair area on the bare frame, then remount the body. It's a nice solution if you have the tools, you are being paid to do it, and five other workers are there to help....

matt60/80 · 11-05-09, 07:11 PM

hsiaoer, could you, or anyone else who has torn into one of these engines, please estimate the length of the crankshaft and con rod bearings. I'm taking a class on internal combustion engines and I'm doing an analysis on the 1FZ and need those dimensions for what I'm doing. Thanks.

hsiaoer · 11-11-09, 02:45 PM

Update:

So guess what I've been driving to work this week?

THATS RIGHT! I finished the swap about midnight on Sunday. It's good to have the beast on the road again.

Casualties of war are minor. I dented an a/c hose and have a new one coming, but so for the old one is holding. I also didn't put the bracket that secures the transmission fluid return lines from the dipstick to the top of the tranny. I might do it in the future, do I need to?

To the last post. I have no idea how long the crank is. I didn't take the timing case off or the back side. The journals are just wider than a 1 in. crocus cloth. I'm pretty sure you can find exact specs with little effort.