Wide or Narrow Winter Tires

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jrdobbs03

jrdobbs03

10 Year 15 Year
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May 5, 2008
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53
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Location
Western Washington
Okay, I've read allot of treads but here's the breakdown of what I'm looking at. The wife authorized a set of winter tires (I know I'm starting early). These tires will be spending the offseason on my trailer and as spares for the truck and trailer, so they have to match the size I'm running (255/85 KM2). I've narrowed the field down to two options, General AT2 295/75R16 and Copper ST 255/85R16. I've heard great things about the AT2s, but I have chains that fit 255/85. So in the end it comes down to which is better wide or narrow, and as I don't know snow and ice all that well I thought I'd get some input. Let the posts begin. Thanks.
 
X2. Less floatation.
 
Unless you're snow wheeling through thick powder.. Then wider = better.
 
Generally, for winter tires used for DD, narrow is better. In some recreational (wheeling) winter driving situations, you might benefit with wider tires or even airing down for flotation. But for the most part, narrower is better in snow and ice. More important, though, is your tread pattern. Looks like you're running A/Ts which are surprisingly better than M/Ts. There are "snow tires" specifically designed to run in snow and ice, but the ones I've seen are for passenger cars (limited sizes), usually 2WD, which need all the help they can get. Most areas are trying to get away from stud usage, because of the road damage they do plus the inconvenience of being a seasonal tire. HTH
 
If you already have the chains for the 255's, go with those. I think they look really neat with the skinnies on there....My .002
 
Sounds like narrow is the way to go. The Cooper is the only tire I could find in 255/85. Is anyone running them as their winter tire? I know there are other options size wise, but I do want to stick with the same height.
 
Skinny is in

tire%20view.jpg


235/85/16 Cooper M+S studded..

BTW the STs don't last very long... 20k miles on my work truck (F250 loaded to the hilt), neither do the M+S but they weren't made to...
 
I run the cooper 255/85 ST on my Tacoma all yr and they work great. I think you'd be happy with them as well. My wifes LX has stock size michelins on it great year-round but, it's an unmodified DD.... :(
 
80t0ylc said:
Generally, for winter tires used for DD, narrow is better. In some recreational (wheeling) winter driving situations, you might benefit with wider tires or even airing down for flotation. But for the most part, narrower is better in snow and ice. More important, though, is your tread pattern. Looks like you're running A/Ts which are surprisingly better than M/Ts. There are "snow tires" specifically designed to run in snow and ice, but the ones I've seen are for passenger cars (limited sizes), usually 2WD, which need all the help they can get. Most areas are trying to get away from stud usage, because of the road damage they do plus the inconvenience of being a seasonal tire. HTH
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Can you elaborate? If wider tires are better for wheeling then why use skinny on DD with Snow. I mean that makes little sense. Snow wheeling is extreme of what one will encounter on the road during the snow storms. So if your wider tires can handle extreme, sure should be able to perform flawlessly on the road. I had never seen skinny tires perform good on snow or ice unless they were studded.
I use skinny for DD in the summer since they give better fuel mileage. (Less friction) but for the same reason (less friction) they do suck with few drops of snow.
 
jrdobbs03 said:
... so they have to match the size I'm running (255/85 KM2).
Click to expand...

Are you that unhappy with the KM2's in winter conditions? I was looking at picking up a set (in 255/85 like you have), but winter driving on hardpack & ice was my biggest concern - the large tread blocks just don't look like they'd be well suited to winter driving. Maybe siping the center blocks would be an option?
 
The KM2's seem to work allot better than my MT's did, but I'm want a tire that'll get me to the ski lift with no worries on those days when nobody else wants to go. Also they'll be under the trailer the rest of the time, and two sets of KM'2's is a big chunk of change.
 
RedTacoma said:
Can you elaborate? If wider tires are better for wheeling then why use skinny on DD with Snow. I mean that makes little sense. Snow wheeling is extreme of what one will encounter on the road during the snow storms. So if your wider tires can handle extreme, sure should be able to perform flawlessly on the road. I had never seen skinny tires perform good on snow or ice unless they were studded.
I use skinny for DD in the summer since they give better fuel mileage. (Less friction) but for the same reason (less friction) they do suck with few drops of snow.
Click to expand...


The key to ice/snow traction on the road is increasing ground pressure.

Skinny tires put more ground pressure on the pavement/ice. The limitation on traction is more limited by the ice than the contact patch. On dry pavement the larger contact patch of a wider tire is useful.. On icy/snowy pavement your traction actually goes down with less ground pressure.

BTW Rubber doesn't stick to ice/snow. Snow/ice stick to snow/ice, hence why snow tires are siped to retain a little bit of snow in the tread... Acts like glue.

If your logic of wider tires made sense... My Dually plow truck would be better in the snow than my cruiser with skinnies... Its not... Unless I put 8000lbs of concrete on the bed. And I do. We receive 200+ inches of snow a year... it has snowed a foot on July 4...
 
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Marc311 said:
I don't think there is a clear consensus as to whether wider is better.

I also thought, as somebody said earlier, tread pattern is the most important for winter tires. In particular, I think siping is the big one.
Click to expand...

Wrong...my old Toyota Starlet would cut through snow like a hot knife through butter with the ten-speed-sized tires it had on it.

So do this all...when it snows out this winter just have two sets of tires and wheels at the ready (wide and skinny) and pop em on-and-off NASCAR style for the Pepsi Challenge and you'll find skinny kicks the hell out of wide.

As others have said unless you're going across the tundra Arctic Trucks style skinny is what you want. Hell, my Civic does better in the snow under most conditions than the Cruiser (so longs as there is pavement underneath all that snow!).
 
From what I've seen, but not driven, the fat tires are good for staying on top of snow that is extremely deep. Look at those rigs driven in Greenland. For snow/ice covered roads which I live in and drive regularly, the narrower tires with the higher contact are much better.
 
RedTacoma said:
Can you elaborate? If wider tires are better for wheeling then why use skinny on DD with Snow. I mean that makes little sense. Snow wheeling is extreme of what one will encounter on the road during the snow storms. So if your wider tires can handle extreme, sure should be able to perform flawlessly on the road. I had never seen skinny tires perform good on snow or ice unless they were studded.
I use skinny for DD in the summer since they give better fuel mileage. (Less friction) but for the same reason (less friction) they do suck with few drops of snow.
Click to expand...


For the benefit of those that are not aware: there are different types or conditions of snow. There's powder - which is the light fluffy stuff that doesn't pack which is what snow is like when the temp is well below 32' F (freezing) and stays below even in the warmest part of the day. As you get near freezing (32' F), the snow tends to get wetter and capable of packing. As you get above freezing, the snow starts to turn to what's commonly referred to as slush - looks more like soft ice as compared to white snow. Most, (not all) of the lower 48 states see the snow that packs well and then turns to slush as the day gets to it's warmest temp. Even with the temp being slightly below freezing, you'll see the snow melting and turning to slush if the sun is shining because the ground is being warmed by the sun. Another point, during the Fall and Spring, ground temps may be above freezing (warmer than the air) causing the snow that's falling to melt after it hits the ground.

Flotation in snow or ice conditions is usually not desirable. Except for extremely deep snow, you want your tires to dig down to where the traction is - pavement or road/ground surface (sometimes packed snow it's self). Vehicle weight, snow depth, snow condition, tire width, tire tread and some other things all determine what kind of traction that you're going to have. Wider tires in these conditions will give you more flotation and less traction.

Now, there are times, in extremely deep snow, where flotation is good and needed to keep you mobile. I've even heard that airing down can aid in this. But, what really determines if this is possible, is the condition of the snow and that is determined by the cooling and thawing and how capable of being packed and supporting the vehicle weight the snow is. That can change dramatically many times over a given section of a trail. Stay on top for a hundred yards or so than drop through a soft section and back and forth you go. Even snow mobiles and snow cats are affected by this, however they're much more capable. IMHO, when you are to the point where you need more flotation from your tires in snow, unless it's for a very short duration, you are about to go over your head (pun intended).

I've lived most of my life in "snow country", so I feel experienced, but there is still room for improvement and I'm learning all the time. Driving in/on snow can be treacherous for the inexperienced - but it's definitely a skill that can be learned. Having the right tires can make winter driving much more enjoyable. I have been on both sides of that equation. Having an 80 series has been a positve to winter driving, too.
 
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