[IronYuppy]

There's no real point to this thread, except for venting. All of the things I'm about to list can be fixed easily - I'm just tired of driving a vehicle I don't trust to get me from point A to point B at the moment....

Two years ago: complete front end rebuild as part of my new-ownership plan.

Eight months ago - had a DS wheel bearing fail in rush-hour traffic, destroying hub, spindle, Longfield, and brake disc. $100 tow bill, a week of rental car, and a $1300 fix at a shop (because I didn't have time to let it sit).

Two weeks ago, the (used) replacement hub failed on the same wheel, destroying the spindle, bearing, birfield, and luckily nothing else. But a small wheel fire, $100 tow bill and two days of rental car. And of course this happened in the middle of nowhere, at midnight.

The PS side longfield is dying, and needs to be replaced very soon.

The steering box leaks so bad now that I have to top up the fluid twice a week, and my driveway looks like a slip-n-slide. I have a replacement box, but no time to swap them out. Also, haven't done one before so I'm better-off waiting for a club tech day to do it with some more-capable Cruiserheads.

The front windows still don't work properly, despite having new window runs. I guess new regulators are in the cards. Also, the actual window switch module in the armrest has a broken mount, and sits loose.

Rear main oil seal is leaking something fierce, too.

I blow some nasty blue smoke at start-up.

There is a worn spot on my ring gear, which eventually chews the teeth on the starter. I carry a spare starter in the truck so I can swap them whenever I have to. I will then take the broken starter for rebuild and it becomes my spare. This is far cheaper and less time-consuming than replacing the ring gear. One day, time and finances permitting, I'll do the ring gear and oil seal and then it will be fixed forever.

Something is rattling behind the dash and is driving me insane.

Apart from that, everything is awesome. I love my truck, but it's hurting and I don't trust it anymore. I miss my indestructible 4Runner, which was subject to eight years of horrendous abuse without any consequence at all.

My neighbour has a 2004 Disco which has never, ever failed him. Just sayin'.

/rant

[Michael Hanson]

My own rule,I only use NEW Toyota parts.This has always worked on my cruisers.Cross country trip no problem.Fix them one problem at a time. 2 cents Mike

[NLXTACY]

I have felt that way with my 60 but in 12 years my LX is the ONLY vehicle I have ever trusted, even with my new headgasket issue. My coolant level mod saved me from screwing the pooch on that one. I don't have any of the issues you have fortunately and for my birfields, which need servicing, I will go with the OEM stuff.

My neighbor has a 2003 Disco, my other neighbor has two LWB County Rovers. They both hate their rovers to no end because all they do is sit. The Disco owner is afraid to go anywhere serious with it even though its pretty tricked out for Expo use.

[peepers]

I feel your pain man. It took me 2 years of constant work and now that it's all done? I want to sell it and get something different. Kinda over it.

[UCBerzerkeley]

That's the case with doing mods for the sake of mods. When you run out, where do you go next? Well you start over of course. I don't actually see it as a problem, you just have to accept the reasons behind the modding process, whatever they may be.

In regards to the reliabilty, bad luck mate, it does not seem to be the norm around here. What else would you get? A newer nissan? A rover? Maybe a 100 or an FJC?

[RedTacoma]

Since this thread sounds like AA group

I admit I have 13 year old FORD, and I love it.

[NLXTACY]

There is no such thing as running out of mods. I have a mod list that will take me YEARS to complete. And every year I just pile on more. I could not imagine doing it with any other vehicle.













cept a UniMog

[The Abbot]

anybody who is unhappy w/ their 80, I will gladly trade a Mustang for your rig.

[ALCO]

Sorry to hear so many issues at once for you. Consumer Reports shows anything made by Land Rover is Pure S**t. I had very good luck with a Tacoma, maybe you could try one of those.

[voorland80]

Originally Posted by IronYuppy

The steering box leaks...

The front windows still don't work properly...

...the actual window switch module in the armrest has a broken mount, and sits loose.

Something is rattling behind the dash and is driving me insane.

/rant

Twice, I've noticed a small leak at the steering box of my '91.
This occured only when it sat for extended period of time.

The driver's window on my 80 had a strange noise and awkward action when operated. I performed open-door surgery and found the scissors bent from repeated use.
I took it out, straightened it, lubed and re-installed. Works great now.

The broken/loose window controller is not uncommon.
It is often due to a broken screw mount on the underside of the plastic housing that the controller attaches to.
It's an easy fix.
I used a short section of soft rubber hose which I placed inside the housing just under the controller at the broken mount. The pressure from the hose under the controller keeps it in place.
My fix was replaced when I switched to leather panels. But it's an easy fix and no one knows the hose is there.

Sometimes, it's the small things which make the bigger things more stressful.

Hey, you're only human. Tackle them one at a time.

[knorrena]

I seem to recall that you have had, and clearly continue to have, issues with this truck. I dont see anything wrong with you getting rid of it. Cruisers, like all things in life, subscribe to the laws of probability: some seem to last forever, and some dont. If its making you unhappy move on.

[IronYuppy]

Originally Posted by knorrena

I seem to recall that you have had, and clearly continue to have, issues with this truck. I dont see anything wrong with you getting rid of it. Cruisers, like all things in life, subscribe to the laws of probability: some seem to last forever, and some dont. If its making you unhappy move on.

Meh, for one thing the resale value on 80s is terrible right now (any big SUV, not just LCs). The other thing is that I still really like it - I just seem to have inherited some bad PO habits. I'm thinking she never did any PM. For example, she drove around for god-knows-how-long-over-a-year with a seized VC, which caused premature wear on the front end. I suspect that all the axle woes - and maybe even the steering box - stem from specifically that neglect.

As for the windows, I'm stumped. Voltage tested OK, replaced the runs, cleaned and lubed the regulators. I assume they're just worn-out/slightly bent. A new set will be my next fix after the birf. If the new regs don't work.... well, I don't know.

As far as the engine mechanical goes, I'm not that concerned. My only real gripe is that each repair eats into my diesel-swap fund. I hate fixing the gasser's problems because that delays the swap.

[IronYuppy]

PS the front locker actuator is buggered, too.

I forgot about that.

[Enigma]

Flog it and get an 81? Then your diesel swap is done

[NLXTACY]

Originally Posted by Enigma

Flog it and get an 81? Then your diesel swap is done

x2, quit your bitching and get on with it

[Romer]

Who is doing your front end work. Thinking with that many problems and failures, maybe they are not doing it correctly.

I cant see how a Hub can fail.

I do know from experience you can put the seal on the inner hub back wards and then it will fail fairly quickly. It looks right, but it isn't.

Replacing the pump is pretty easy and about 3 hours

If your tired of cutting into your diesel fund, do some of the work yourself.

If you want to get through this, you have to start working through your Punch list

[IronYuppy]

Originally Posted by Romer

Who is doing your front end work. Thinking with that many problems and failures, maybe they are not doing it correctly.

I cant see how a Hub can fail.

I do know from experience you can put the seal on the inner hub back wards and then it will fail fairly quickly. It looks right, but it isn't.

Replacing the pump is pretty easy and about 3 hours

If your tired of cutting into your diesel fund, do some of the work yourself.

If you want to get through this, you have to start working through your Punch list

Yup.

The problem with the failures is invariably they happen when I'm working and I don't have the luxury of time to deal with them myself. It's my DD.

[landtank]

X2 on who is doing the work. A full axle rebuild done properly would have negated all that continued problems with the front axle. Who ever is doing the work doesn't seem to know what they are doing.

the rest is age related and you have had plenty of time to deal with them but it seems you will want to wait until a full out failure and then pay someone to do the work.

I have 230k on my truck. Watch for signs of pending issues and plan out their repairs. I do all my own work so those repairs should be done properly and I wouldn't hesitate to drive this truck to CA tomorrow.

[NaterGator]

Originally Posted by IronYuppy

There's no real point to this thread, except for venting. All of the things I'm about to list can be fixed easily - I'm just tired of driving a vehicle I don't trust to get me from point A to point B at the moment....

Two years ago: complete front end rebuild as part of my new-ownership plan.

Eight months ago - had a DS wheel bearing fail in rush-hour traffic, destroying hub, spindle, Longfield, and brake disc. $100 tow bill, a week of rental car, and a $1300 fix at a shop (because I didn't have time to let it sit).


...

The steering box leaks so bad now that I have to top up the fluid twice a week, and my driveway looks like a slip-n-slide. I have a replacement box, but no time to swap them out. Also, haven't done one before so I'm better-off waiting for a club tech day to do it with some more-capable Cruiserheads.

The front windows still don't work properly, despite having new window runs. I guess new regulators are in the cards. Also, the actual window switch module in the armrest has a broken mount, and sits loose.

Rear main oil seal is leaking something fierce, too.

I blow some nasty blue smoke at start-up.
...
Apart from that, everything is awesome. I love my truck, but it's hurting and I don't trust it anymore. I miss my indestructible 4Runner, which was subject to eight years of horrendous abuse without any consequence at all.

Anything I didn't delete, I've had similar experiences with. I very much so feel your pain.... I read people who say "My 80 is the only vehicle I trust to get me from point a to point b, blah blah blah" and I think bull****. My 80 has never once successfully gotten me 600 miles to NC and back yet. I am religious about the PM, fluid intervals, etc, but it just isn't enough to keep up with an old 80 I guess. Say what you want about the 80s being a bombproof design (they are) but the list of consumable parts that wear out or go bad and are nearly impossible to fix/change and require extensive downtime for a DD are huge. Oil pan arch, oil pump seal, etc, etc.

I'm with you, I'm frustrated and fawking tired of going to make a trip and then calling my employer to say "sorry, can't make it until next week because my car crapped out on me in XXX city and I'm waiting on parts". I'll keep fixing it because the 99% of the time that it's not broken it's great, but I really don't get how the damn thing can be so hard for Toyota's people to service. I thought having Toyota mechanics perform my front axle maintenance was a good idea, but evidently some are too inept to do even that and it seems if you make one mistake at any point in the front axle it will come back to bite your ass in a huge way at the worst possible time.


Oh well, I'll just be happy to get my cruiser back and start doing literally everything myself. At least then I'll know I'm to blame and who to be mad at.

Edited for language by Romer

[Romer]

I have never had a break down on my or my daughters 80. I have had problems develop and then fixed them.

I figured when the Power steering pump starts leaking after 150K miles and needs work thats not bad for a part that gets constant use. I have had my share of other problems, but that comes with buying these vehicles for what we do vs the $54K they rolled of the showroom floor.

I have had the annoying problems that resulted in lots of troubleshooting until I figured out a corroded wire on the connector to the tranny.

I will say, if it wasn't for Mud, I would have likely given up years ago. When you have a problem you cant find and have to spend tons of money ion a mechanic who is use to new vehicles and not these, then that can get frustrating and make you pull your hair out.

I haven't had a problem that I haven't found a solution on Mud or at least talked through it to find the solution. Thats a huge part of owning these vehicles to me, the reach back and knowing there is help when I need it.

Every truck is different

[NaterGator]

Originally Posted by Romer

I have never had a break down on my or my daughters 80. I have had problems develop and then fixed them.

Romer my greatest complain with the front axle is that many problems I've seen/experienced from it don't seem to have a clear death-call that says "hey something is going wrong, get in here and fix me". Perhaps it is because the design is so robust that it can survive quite well in a non-ideal configuration that is ruining it.

See: Woody's catastrophic failure (though that was known neglect to be fair), IY's failure, my failure on the i-state, another 2 or 3 people that posted in my thread 2 years ago with similar stories. You're driving on what you think is a properly (even factory) maintained axle and blammo, 20 minutes later you have a wheel bearing weld itself to the spindle or worse you lose a wheel. Thats the sort of failure that really bugs me with the 80... I can deal with something that gives up the ghost in a predictable manner or even wears and warns of an impending failure, but IME it seems like things go from fine to undrivable very quickly in the 80. Another good example of such failures is the headgasket failure many have experienced.

[Radd Cruisers]

Originally Posted by IronYuppy

Yup.

The problem with the failures is invariably they happen when I'm working and I don't have the luxury of time to deal with them myself. It's my DD.

As Romer mentioned a little maintence goes a long long long way.


Excuses excuses, Im just too lazy myself to work on my own rig.

I have a new job through the week days and worked from 10am yesterday until 9pm last night on a rig, it sucks but I need the cash. Not to mention it was a jeep eeeeeehhhhh........


Rob

['74 UA FJ]

It's has a lot to do with bad luck, in you guys' cases. My brother's 60 series hasn't had an axle service in 350,000 miles and it still keeps rolling on. Hell, he just changed the spark plugs for the first time in 200,000 miles because it started skipping.

I haven't had a problem with my 80 yet, but it's only got just over 100,000 miles. I don't ever plan to sell it, so I will keep you updated...

[cruiserdan]

Wheel bearing failure in an 80 is almost always pilot error.

[NaterGator]

Originally Posted by cruiserdan

Wheel bearing failure in an 80 is almost always pilot error.

Can it really be considered "pilot error" when the services are being performed by Toyota techs at Toyota dealerships using Toyota parts?

You told me over the phone that the service interval on wheel bearings is ~30k miles for normal usage. ~20k miles ago I had my spindles and bearings replaced with entirely new components by a Lexus dealership. ~2k miles ago I had them repacked by a Lexus dealer in Tampa. ~200 miles ago I looked at them myself and with a tech at a Toyota dealership and they are now apparently in need of replacing, not repacking.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting "pilot error" but I don't exactly feel at fault for 20k mile old wheel bearings needing to be replaced when I had Toyota techs working on them every time.

[cruiserdan]

Originally Posted by NaterGator

Can it really be considered "pilot error" when the services are being performed by Toyota techs at Toyota dealerships using Toyota parts?

You bet.

Just because the guy wears a shirt with the sombrero on it does not mean he knows how to work on something other than Camrys and Rav4s.

[Romer]

Originally Posted by cruiserdan

You bet.

Just because the guy wears a shirt with the sombrero on it does not mean he knows how to work on something other than Camrys and Rav4s.

Yup

I found the Toyota dealer is great for my wife's 06 4runner, but they are clueless to an 80 series and most have not ever worked on a solid front axle

[ToothDr]

Your average Toyota dealer is one of the last places I'd take an 80 unless you know a tech there that's had plenty of experience on an 80 series. I speak from experience. Here in Denver there's a Toyota dealership with 2 very good land cruiser guys. Both have been with Toyota for 25+ years. Not all dealerhips are so lucky. You have to ask for the tech with the most experience with these trucks. Like Romer said, many of these techs haven't even worked on a solid front axle truck. The 1997 80 series was the last solid axle truck for the US market from Toyota.
Most of the 80's that are left are in the hands of enthusiats like mud members that do their own work. Toyota dealers rarely see 80's anymore. Better off taking it to an independant shop that works on 80's and older solid axle stuff all day and request Toyota parts.

Bottom line, a dealership is no guarantee that your 80 will be fixed right. Ask around here on MUD for a good land cruiser shop and or tech in your area.

Pete

[80t0ylc]

Originally Posted by cruiserdan

Wheel bearing failure in an 80 is almost always pilot error.

Agreed! The pilot(owner, driver, keeper of the keys or whatever you call them) makes the decision who does the maintenance. So faulty maintenance is traced back to the decision maker, whether he did the work or not. You can't blame the rig, the parts or the results on anyone else. At least not more than once! We don't want to hear this, especially in the middle of the problem, but once we realize and admit it, the battle is half fought. Proper maintenance is so time consuming, that most of us want or need to delegate it to someone else. You have to admit, our rigs are time vampires. The question becomes: do we want to pay that price or not. Reality is: life often sets our priorities for us. What we want and what we need do not always run parallel - most often they don't.

So, to the OP, maybe as some have already suggested, it's time to move on. It's not an easy decision or one to be taken lightly, but never-the-less, needs to be made. Please don't misunderstand my intentions. This is not callous unfeeling criticism, but attempts to help a fellow mudder get control of their situation. Tomorrow, I may be in the same boat! You never know.

[Squash]

So,
Some complaints dealing with the front end which should and can be addressed as a group.

How about temperature probes into the knuckle???
Either mounted to the hub itself or into the cavity like the ABS sensor...rising heat levels will warn you that failure is coming.
The failure could mean stuck calipers to spindle or wheel bearings, which generally leave people stranded.

For the money this is a great mod.

Here is just one example of mini sensors:
Miniature Sensors monitor embedded bearing temperature., Conax Buffalo Technologies
Temperature Sensor features separate electronics module., Calex Electronics Limited

Do you ever run your hands over the hubs when stopped after a runor between fill ups when on a road trip, if a hub is hot to the touch chances are you need to investigate.