Advice on DUal Battery Setup

[Filmpros]

LandTank is in the process of building my truck.

I am requesting that a dual battery setup with two (2) Sears Platinum / Odyssey Marine Batteries - Group 31 Size if it will fit. 1150 Cold Cranking Amps and 205 Minutes Reserve Capacity.

DieHard Marine Battery, Platinum PM-1 - Group Size 31M - Model PM-1 at Sears.com

Also, based on recommendations, I am having a 150 Amp Sequoia Alternator installed.

Since Rick is installing a hydraulic Winch, the Dual Battery setup is primarily dedicated to my Radio Gear and any outboard electrical equipment I may install in the future.

My application is as follows:

1 - Radio Gear. My Radio will draw 65amps when keyed down with the Radio Amp ON ... maybe more when modulating. It will draw 25 Amps with the Radio Amp OFF. I will use it when required in remote location with the Radio Amp ... so I need to be capable of at least a 65amp draw off the secondary fuse block.

2 - Refrigerator. I figure about 5 Amps for this.

3 - Cell Phone Amp. This only draws 2 Amps.

4 - Secondary Lighting & Electronics. 20 Amps if that much.

** 100Amps may be required in total to cover any given scenario.

My current thoughts for the dual battery setup is to run all of the above off an isolated 2nd battery. I would keep the primary battery for starting, lighting, and normal truck operations.

I thought about using the second battery for my secondary lighting as well, but I see no reason why I would need / want to do that. Besides, it would probably make the install more complex. I want to keep things simple. All of the items above are being wired after the fact and could more easily be routed to run off the 2nd battery.

Any suggestions on the best approach and best equipment to use?

[NLXTACY]

I have pretty much the same setup:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...ppearance.html

As far as wiring and battery:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...-da-power.html

[clarkrw3]

That's how I have mine set up...I run my stereo eqip. off the main battery as well as my lightforce 240's and everything else gets run off the aux battery using the National Luna system. Actually I am running my Inverter off the main as will due to the cable run (have it mounted under the drivers seat) I would highly suggest you run a set of 4/0 cables off of the aux battery into the cab like NLXTACY did to aux mounting points so all your other acc. don't have to run back to the battery and run 2 aux fuse boxes one inside and one under the hood.

[NLXTACY]

kinda like this :
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...use-panel.html

Not sure I would recommend running 4/0, that stuff is HUGE!!!! And very, very difficult to work with. In fact I originally started with 4/0 and as much as I like overkill, this was OVERkill. If you use the wire guide charts you will see that pretty much anything you are thinking about can be run all through 1/0.

[NLXTACY]

BTW I'm sure the National Luna is fine for the amperage output of the new alternator but the Hellroaring BIC-95150 was pretty much designed for high amperage alternators like this and you can set up with either starter side isolation or aux. side isolation.

[clarkrw3]

You are probably right....I was just thinking that my sub amp specs 1/0 and my inverter specs 2gauge and then you have your aux fuse at at least 8 gauge and then my 4 channel specs 4 gauge...it all adds up and if I did it over I would rather have a set up like yours and run everything off the main wire 2/0 would probably be fine...

[Filmpros]

Any recommendations on the best quality Pure Sine Way Inverter? I think anywhere from 1,250 watts to 2,000 watts will work.

[NLXTACY]

If you want top of the line you need to go Xantrex

Xantrex Technology Inc. - Boats - Prosine 2.0 - Product Information

Prices go for around $800-$1000.

[NLXTACY]

BTW this is the one I will eventually be going with. Again, overkill.
Also because of its size you are more limited to its mounting locations. Also, a MOD SINE inverter is perfectly fine AND CHEAP for 110V power on items that don't need the smooth charging curve.

[fzjconvert]

Originally Posted by NLXTACY

If you want top of the line you need to go Xantrex

Xantrex Technology Inc. - Boats - Prosine 2.0 - Product Information

Prices go for around $800-$1000.

Doesn't 619toy have something like this?

[Filmpros]

Thank you. Yes, I want the best and this looks great. It is also a battery charger? It comes with a remote panel which is perfect. I am calling the company today to learn more ... but it sounds like the one.

Originally Posted by NLXTACY

If you want top of the line you need to go Xantrex

Xantrex Technology Inc. - Boats - Prosine 2.0 - Product Information

Prices go for around $800-$1000.

[Filmpros]

Yes, I know. But I want the option of using this with any type of gear. Mostly, I will use it for my MAC Notebook with a Broadband Card and for powering my Blackberry ... eventually maybe even a small portable office when I am traveling. Also, since I am in the Music, Film, Televisions and Home Video Business ... a Blu-ray Player and small HDTV for screening works in progress ... which my end up being a Blu-ray Drive connected to my MAC for conevnience and efficiency.

Originally Posted by NLXTACY

BTW this is the one I will eventually be going with. Again, overkill.
Also because of its size you are more limited to its mounting locations. Also, a MOD SINE inverter is perfectly fine AND CHEAP for 110V power on items that don't need the smooth charging curve.

[Beowulf]

Rich,
Think through your scenarios for why you want the dual battery set up. There were/are several good threads here in the 80-section and in the Electronic Toys, Expedition, and Recovery gear sections.

Many of us have selected the "backup battery" configuration. Reasons vary but basically the general thinking is to always have a fresh battery in reserve. This means NO loads on the backup battery and the isolator/combiner will ensure that it is always charged. All loads run off the primary battery which is usually a high capacity deep cycle. So if your 65amp radio is hung in Xmit because the mic got stuck between the seats with the PTT button pushed down and the fridge got cycled to the high setting and a door was left open, you don't wake up to a completely dead vehicle in the remote Utah desert and have to cut off your arm to get out.

The isolator/combiner (Hellroaring is an excellent choice) can be manually switched for combining the 2 batteries for self-jumping or winching. I realize you have selected a hydraulic winch so winching is not a load that you need to be concerned with.

If you are usually in a group or where you can call AAA for a jump then splitting the loads between the 2 batteries isn't a big deal.

-B-

[unwiredadventures]

Originally Posted by Filmpros

Any recommendations on the best quality Pure Sine Way Inverter? I think anywhere from 1,250 watts to 2,000 watts will work.

I've been using many laptops and other electronics in my vehicles for years. You'll use far less battery if you can get DC adapters for your electronics.

I have a DC powered power supply for each of my laptops. I like the iGo devices: iGo.com - Power Adapters and Chargers for Mobile Electronic Devices

I have a small inverter for small items like my SLR AC battery charger and a few other small AC devices.

[Filmpros]

That is a good thought actually. My thinking was the other way around .... to isolate the battery for the heavy draw electronics so my primary is always good for staring. If they were isolated, I would not have the problem you described...right?

Is it possible to have options with the Hellroaring setup? I looked at their website and it seems they have a switched setup where you can Isolate or Join the batteries and there is some kind of Auto Mode as well.

Albeit, you suggestion makes sense. Would the Hellroaring setup have to be wired diferently to accomlish what you descibed or just the accessories, radio, etc wired to the main battery?

Also, in speaking with a less than enthusiastic tech at Xantrex today ... the power inverter folks .... he told me that a 150 amp Alterntaor would kill the Group 31 battery. He said the alternator should put ideally out 25% of the amp hour rating.

That would be 25 watts for the Alternator feeding a Group 31 battery rated at 100 amp hours with 1150 CCA and 205 Minutes reserve.

Obvioulsy, he is mistaken as the stock alternator is about 80 amps I belive and I have a Group D35 Yellow Top in there that is rated at 48 amp hours with 650 CCA and 98 minutes of reserve capacity. He must have been confused

He also said I would need something like 4/4 cable ... whatever that is ... rated at 250 amps to connect the power inverter. I was hoping to get away with something like 1/0 cable. Even for the 1000 Watt he suggested 2 gauge which he insisted is larger than 1/0. Either everything I am confused or he is. The wire charst online indicate that the 0 gauge is capable of more power tansmission than the 2 gauge.

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Rich,
Think through your scenarios for why you want the dual battery set up. There were/are several good threads here in the 80-section and in the Electronic Toys, Expedition, and Recovery gear sections.

Many of us have selected the "backup battery" configuration. Reasons vary but basically the general thinking is to always have a fresh battery in reserve. This means NO loads on the backup battery and the isolator/combiner will ensure that it is always charged. All loads run off the primary battery which is usually a high capacity deep cycle. So if your 65amp radio is hung in Xmit because the mic got stuck between the seats with the PTT button pushed down and the fridge got cycled to the high setting and a door was left open, you don't wake up to a completely dead vehicle in the remote Utah desert and have to cut off your arm to get out.

The isolator/combiner (Hellroaring is an excellent choice) can be manually switched for combining the 2 batteries for self-jumping or winching. I realize you have selected a hydraulic winch so winching is not a load that you need to be concerned with.

If you are usually in a group or where you can call AAA for a jump then splitting the loads between the 2 batteries isn't a big deal.

-B-

[Filmpros]

Yes, I am leaning towards a 1,000 watt Pure Sine wave inverter at this point due to the size and draw factors.

I checked out the website...those may work if I install a few power ports in the truck...which I plan to do.

Originally Posted by unwiredadventures

I've been using many laptops and other electronics in my vehicles for years. You'll use far less battery if you can get DC adapters for your electronics.

I have a DC powered power supply for each of my laptops. I like the iGo devices: iGo.com - Power Adapters and Chargers for Mobile Electronic Devices

I have a small inverter for small items like my SLR AC battery charger and a few other small AC devices.

[Filmpros]

Your thread on this was fantastic. I noticed there was some room under the metal base that the center console sits ... where you installed your power inverter. Do you know how much room is there?

The Xantrex 1,000 and 1,800 watt units are 15.4" x 11" x 4.5".

The Xantrex 2,000 watt unit is 17.7" x 11.2" x 5.7"

Any idea if any of these will fit in that location?
[IMG]file:///Users/richardcasey/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]

Originally Posted by NLXTACY

I have pretty much the same setup:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...ppearance.html

As far as wiring and battery:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...-da-power.html

[NLXTACY]

Some folks isolate the starting side and some isolate the aux. side. I isolated the starting side MAINLY because I will be adding a THIRD battery which will be a true back up.

I would call Mike Hines at Hellroaring and run through your thoughts. His site needs help and there is a lot that isn't on the site.

The difference in wiring is basically where the alternator fits into the system. That's the major difference.

His numbers are off. Stock is 80A. I, and a few folks here, are or will be running 150A alternators. Well the alternator will only put out that amperage at higher rev. Of you are using a GSM battery you should be fine because thats what the regulator is there for anyway. A lead/acid based battery requires 14.4 volts and a GSM requires 14.1, not sure why he thinks amperage is going to kill the battery. Its being well under or well over that will kill a GSM battery.

When he is saying 4/4 I can only assume he means 4 wires of 4AWG. That would make sense.

Sounds like you got a newbie because his AWG wire sizing is pretty much opposite. I would recommend maybe trying them again and seeing if you can talk to one of their engineers.

Originally Posted by Filmpros

That is a good thought actually. My thinking was the other way around .... to isolate the battery for the heavy draw electronics so my primary is always good for staring. If they were isolated, I would not have the problem you described...right?

Is it possible to have options with the Hellroaring setup? I looked at their website and it seems they have a switched setup where you can Isolate or Join the batteries and there is some kind of Auto Mode as well.

Albeit, you suggestion makes sense. Would the Hellroaring setup have to be wired diferently to accomlish what you descibed or just the accessories, radio, etc wired to the main battery?

Also, in speaking with a less than enthusiastic tech at Xantrex today ... the power inverter folks .... he told me that a 150 amp Alterntaor would kill the Group 31 battery. He said the alternator should put ideally out 25% of the amp hour rating.

That would be 25 watts for the Alternator feeding a Group 31 battery rated at 100 amp hours with 1150 CCA and 205 Minutes reserve.

Obvioulsy, he is mistaken as the stock alternator is about 80 amps I belive and I have a Group D35 Yellow Top in there that is rated at 48 amp hours with 650 CCA and 98 minutes of reserve capacity. He must have been confused

He also said I would need something like 4/4 cable ... whatever that is ... rated at 250 amps to connect the power inverter. I was hoping to get away with something like 1/0 cable. Even for the 1000 Watt he suggested 2 gauge which he insisted is larger than 1/0. Either everything I am confused or he is. The wire charst online indicate that the 0 gauge is capable of more power tansmission than the 2 gauge.

[NLXTACY]

I considered this as well but unfortunately there IS enough height but the units are too wide so they wont work. And the unit is too tall to fit under the driver's side seat. Also because of fan noise I would recommend putting it in the cargo area.

I thought the fan wouldn't bother me but after a 3200 miles trip I was looking for reasons to turn it off. Its not that its loud per se, just annoying.

Originally Posted by Filmpros

Your thread on this was fantastic. I noticed there was some room under the metal base that the center console sits ... where you installed your power inverter. Do you know how much room is there?

The Xantrex 1,000 and 1,800 watt units are 15.4" x 11" x 4.5".

The Xantrex 2,000 watt unit is 17.7" x 11.2" x 5.7"

Any idea if any of these will fit in that location?
[IMG]file:///Users/richardcasey/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]

[NLXTACY]

BTW, I HIGHLY recommend getting this book. It will explain in detail EVERYTHING that you are thinking about and it will make your decisions much easier:

Amazon.com: Managing 12 Volts: How to Upgrade, Operate, and Troubleshoot 12 Volt Electrical Systems: Harold Barre: Books

[Filmpros]

I just realized that he CD Changer in my LX-450 is mounted in the lower back of the console. I would imagine that this Changer Unit extends in to that cavity beneath the metal plate you mounted your power inverter to. That might rule out anything I want to install there.

Originally Posted by NLXTACY

I considered this as well but unfortunately there IS enough height but the units are too wide so they wont work. And the unit is too tall to fit under the driver's side seat. Also because of fan noise I would recommend putting it in the cargo area.

I thought the fan wouldn't bother me but after a 3200 miles trip I was looking for reasons to turn it off. Its not that its loud per se, just annoying.

[NLXTACY]

Do you mean to tell me that you have a CD changer that works!?!!?

Yes I took out the CD changer AND the mid box. Both can kiss my a$$. Buts its moot anyway because it wont fit because of the width.

Originally Posted by Filmpros

I just realized that he CD Changer in my LX-450 is mounted in the lower back of the console. I would imagine that this Changer Unit extends in to that cavity beneath the metal plate you mounted your power inverter to. That might rule out anything I want to install there.