OME Competition Coils and Michelin's (Michelin Guys Question)

[2everest]

Hey all,

Currently I am running J's front and rear, and 1" MAF spacers in the front, with no extra weight. Sitting at Hub to Flare she measures 25" in the front, and 26" in the rear. From all the measurement's I've taken, the Michelin XL 11.00 will clear, but barely.

I also need 1 more inch in the front, to level her out.

So, I am thinking of buying the OME Comp springs, but the 5"ers for the front, and the 4"ers for the rear, so she sits level! Would this be a good assumption? I checked all the springs rates, and it seems that it would work well.

Also, The guys that run the XL's, or XML's, what lift height's are you at? And at what points do you rub?

I am also thinking that with the tire being a skinny one, it would rub less than say a 12.50 wide 38" tire. I am thinking out loud here, and wanting some input from the michelin tire experts on here. I don't want to hear, "Why run that tire?" "You don't need to be that high!" Blah ... Blah ...

This is something I am going to do, regardless!

Thanks in advance fellas!

-Josh

[Bear80]

I can tell you that right now you are setting higher than slee 6" springs. 5" front comps are nearly equivalent to your setup with the only difference that they will be stiffer.

[Cañonero]

What is the stock Hub to flare measure?

[2everest]

It is 20.5" but I don't know if that is the front or the rear. I got that off of a thread a while ago, and have been sticking with it. I think that is the front?

The reason why I switched to J's, is because they are stiffer, and 1" longer than the size before them. I got about 1-1 1/2 inches just from switching to those springs. What I am figuring is that if the Comp springs are stiffer, I will get an inch or so. Trust me, the ride is already stiff! I am sure it can't get much worse with an unloaded 80! Plus, I like the ride, less body roll!

-Josh

[Bear80]

Your info is not correct. The 850J is the same spring rate as the 851 and 850. Even so the 5" comp unloaded will not be much higher than you already are with 850J's and spacers unloaded. Take a look at your pan hard bar and steering rod angles, they are steep as it is. I recommend to keep the front at or under 25"

[2everest]

bump!

[FJBen]

What are you going to run for caster and control arms?

Getting tires to fit is the easy part of this equation. You could fit these on J's and remove the flares. If you want to go with unloaded 5" comps your ride will definitely get stiffer. The rates on the comp are definitely higher.

OME Comp 420 5" fronts = 300 lb/in spring rate, unload free height 21.8"
OME 850J front's 3.5" = 220 lb/in spring rate, unload free height 20.6"

OME Comp 422 4" rears = 280 lb/in spring rate, unload free height 19.8"
OME 863J rear 4" rears = 250 lb/in spring rate, unload free height 20.0"


Not a lot of difference between the rears, other than the rate. The fronts are 1" taller and much stiffer rated.

This is where it gets really expensive. What are you running for caster? panhards? control arms? d-shafts? Upgraded axle shafts? Shocks (L shocks aren't going to work without changing the mounts to get your travel in the right place)

[2everest]

I have the 4+plus adjustable panhard rods, and I am flipping the control arms as soon as I get the ride height where I want it. If you look at the pics above, the flares are gone. They have been gone for some time. hehehe ...

Another option I was thinking of, was swaping the front springs for the OME 5"coils so it sits level with the rear, or close. And keep the J's in the rear. It would be just as much as buying the 2" spacers from Metaltech.

And MAF sells the Comp kits with L shocks. I think they should work fine with proper bump stop adjustments.

Anymore input on rubbing with the michelins.

The more I think about it, the more I feel it won't be that big of a deal!

Thanks

[FJBen]

Originally Posted by 2everest

And MAF sells the Comp kits with L shocks. I think they should work fine with proper bump stop adjustments.


Thanks

Sounds like you got the panhards and caster under control. The shocks are still not very good for your setup. The only reason MAF sells the comp kits with L shocks is because it's the only "bolt-on" shock in that height for the 80.

With that amount of lift, you will probably only have 3-4" of down travel and will be picking up wheels a lot. Definitely not optimal. You can space down the shocks.

I sure hope you are running at least 5.29's and chromolly!

[alkaline747trio]

The front will rub if you don't do something about control arms, placing the axle towards the front where it needs to be. You will want 2" bumpstop extensions all around. Now that you put the front axle in the center of the wheelwell and extended the bumpstops you can fit that tire requardless of spring.

[2everest]

Sweet dude! That sounds like a plan. I will move the axle forward a little when I do the arm flip. Hoe far is to far? Maybe 3/4" or 1" forward?

What about getting the front level?

Do you think the Metaltech spacers, or a Comp spring? No offense to anyone, but I don't want to run any others spring types besides OME.

-Josh

[jfz80]

The OME comp 5''/4'' combo is a sweet setup in my opinion. BUT do you have any plans for armor? or are you keeping her light and tall? I think youd be fine running that tire on the j and 4'' combo if you stay light....sliders and some tube bumperettes. I would rather have spring than spacer but get the appropriate shock to run w/ it, or modify accordingly. I run a 36.9'' tire on the 4''(slee) and J rear combo w/ L shocks. I rub but most of it is due to the stock panhards and a 5.5'' backspaced wheel.

keep us posted on a sub 6'' arm flip...

[alkaline747trio]

Comp 5/4 will keep you level if you have gear in the back, if you're light in the ass end then keep the J springs. Why arm flip? Going through all that trouble might as well do a 3-link. Oh and 4.25" MAX backspacing on the wheels...any more and you're into the frame and control arms.

[2everest]

I am keeping the stock wheels! They work and are light!

The only thing I am planning on, is a brush guard on the front, for lights, and a drawer system out back. That's really it!

Here is a little table I compiled:

FRONT COMP COILS: 300lbs Linear Weight (Rate 52.5)

5” Comp = OME 420 - 555mm/565mm or 21.85"/22.24"
4” Comp = OME 419 - 530mm/540mm or 20.87"/21.26"
3” Comp = OME 418 - 505mm/515mm or 19.88"/20.28"

REAR COMP COILS: 280lbs Linear Weight (Rate 49.0)

5” Comp = OME 423 - 530mm/540mm or 20.87"/21.26"
4” Comp = OME 422 - 505mm/515mm or 19.88"/20.28"
3” Comp = OME 421 - 480mm/490mm or 18.90"/19.29"

CURRENT:

FRONT: 220lbs Linear Weight (Rate 38.5)

= OME 850J - 525mm/535mm - 20.67/21.06

REAR: 250lbs Linear Weight (Rate 44.0)

= OME 863J - 510mm/520mm or 20.08"/20.47"

I hate to say it Bear80, but your info is off. This is from ARB.

Who is running Comps anyways? Any input? If the springs are stiffer, it wouldn't make a difference in an already unloaded 80 with J's, just in height!

I don't want a three link. Mainly because, I think it is toooo much flex. I am happy with the radius arm flip.



-Josh

[2everest]

Bump!

[FJBen]

Originally Posted by 2everest

Who is running Comps anyways? Any input? If the springs are stiffer, it wouldn't make a difference in an already unloaded 80 with J's, just in height!

-Josh

I'm pretty sure thats not a true statement. If the springs are a stiffer spring rate, it's going to ride stiffer. Height and ride wise you'll have something to deal with.

Take OME 864's for instance. They are the "really heavy" heavy's

OME 864 320 lbs/in and a height of 18.8" .....thats a much shorter spring (in theory) with more weight rating than the comp springs. yet unloaded it will be over "J" spring height.

cruiser dan's rig on OMEJ + 1" spacer up front and 864 heavy rears on unloaded 80. You can see it's over the J height. you are talking about a taller spring and a little less spring rate...although still more than the J rate.



to quote GeoRoss here on mud:

The 864's I have are stiff. I am not sure I can detect much difference with 400-500lbs of gear in ride or stance (otherwise stock). I guess the ride is a little less rough, but only marginally. The back will 'jump' on abrupt speed bumps, loaded or not. They flex well. I can say that the stock springs that were on it would begin to sag with as little as 200 llbs.

The ride is very stiff, but I am used to driving trucks, so I am used to it. They do well on washboard roads once you find the right speed.


So considering you are close to that in spring rate, and unloaded your springs are going to ride taller and stiffer than what you have.

[alkaline747trio]

You will gain height with the OME comp coils, 4" will be marginally higher with a different rake, 5" will be 1+" higher with different rake. Buy the comp 5" front springs, then decide from there which rear springs you want.

I also suggest adding your rear sway-bar back...I did and it made offroading way more controlled (forced the front to flex a little more) and on-road evasive maneuvers less seat eating. Extending the stock bracket is extremely easy and even if you can't weld would be cheap to have a shop do.

[2everest]

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

You will gain height with the OME comp coils, 4" will be marginally higher with a different rake, 5" will be 1+" higher with different rake. Buy the comp 5" front springs, then decide from there which rear springs you want.

I also suggest adding your rear sway-bar back...I did and it made offroading way more controlled (forced the front to flex a little more) and on-road evasive maneuvers less seat eating. Extending the stock bracket is extremely easy and even if you can't weld would be cheap to have a shop do.

I agree totally. I think I am going to run the 5" Comps up front w/o spacer, and see where she sits.

I was also thinking about running the sway bar also. When off-roading, the rear unloads like a f%$#n shotgun! I just don't like the way it is installed, and is kind of in the way. I will think about that, but good suggestion.

You are running Michelins right? Or were? how did you like them?

-Josh

[2everest]

Originally Posted by FJBen

I'm pretty sure thats not a true statement. If the springs are a stiffer spring rate, it's going to ride stiffer. Height and ride wise you'll have something to deal with.

Take OME 864's for instance. They are the "really heavy" heavy's

OME 864 320 lbs/in and a height of 18.8" .....thats a much shorter spring (in theory) with more weight rating than the comp springs. yet unloaded it will be over "J" spring height.

cruiser dan's rig on OMEJ + 1" spacer up front and 864 heavy rears on unloaded 80. You can see it's over the J height. you are talking about a taller spring and a little less spring rate...although still more than the J rate.



to quote GeoRoss here on mud:

The 864's I have are stiff. I am not sure I can detect much difference with 400-500lbs of gear in ride or stance (otherwise stock). I guess the ride is a little less rough, but only marginally. The back will 'jump' on abrupt speed bumps, loaded or not. They flex well. I can say that the stock springs that were on it would begin to sag with as little as 200 llbs.

The ride is very stiff, but I am used to driving trucks, so I am used to it. They do well on washboard roads once you find the right speed.


So considering you are close to that in spring rate, and unloaded your springs are going to ride taller and stiffer than what you have.

I still think the J would be taller with any weight (within specs) added. The rear of the truck is so light. I am sitting at about 5.5" of lift in the back, just with the J's, no spacers!

From MAF:

OME COIL REAR SUPER HEAVY 400KG TO GVM 50MM/2-INCH 80 SERIES

or:

OME COIL SPRING REAR HEAVY DUTY 75MM/3-INCH 80 SERIES

In my opinion, with say 200 pounds of weight equally, the J's should sit higher because they are actually built 1" taller than the others.

Before I wrote, "Who is running Comps anyways? Any input? If the springs are stiffer, it wouldn't make a difference in an already unloaded 80 with J's, just in height!"

I meant, the feel of the ride might not be much different, because stiff is stiff. I am also used to trucks. My wife drives a Bronco, her dad drives a LX450 and a 65 Shelby GT350 (yes a real one) with Konie shocks (stiffest ride on planet earth), my parents drive a Damndurango, and a pickup, etc.

[alkaline747trio]

Michelins are bulletproof and with 15lbs of air they can run a trail and run the interstate. A nail isn't shit to them. Rocks don't phase them, neither do they adhear to them. Cut the tread blocks, shave the sidewalls, and sipe them like hell....then you might have a good performing tire on difficult trails. Sand, dirt, mud, whatever...those tires do pretty good and you never worry about a puncture. They are heavy bastards, and unless you get them cheap as hell (less than $300 for a full set w/ decent tread) they aren't worth it IMO. If you do a WHOLE BUNCH of 'expedition' style wheeling, maybe Baja or Alaskan roads/paths...then these would be great tries.

[FJBen]

I guess our interpretation of stiff will have to vary

I have J's on the rear of my rig. It's definitely not a 5.5" lift. It's just slightly taller without the spare tire setup. My rear bumper is light and we took it off to rebuild it. It went up maybe .5" and thats a very light rear on mine. I didn't think it rode stiff at all.

I'd be interested to hear what your hub to flare measurements are right now. I'm running Slee 4"/ OMEJ rear.

[ginericLC]

I ran the Comp 419s in front with the Js in the rear. It sat pretty level. I ran a super light front bumper with a Warn XD9000 winch. I thought the ride was great. I ran L shocks all the way around. I used Christo's caster plates as well. Before this I ran Js in the front with a 1.5" spacer and it was about the same height as the 419s without a spacer.

[2everest]

Originally Posted by ginericLC

I ran the Comp 419s in front with the Js in the rear. It sat pretty level. I ran a super light front bumper with a Warn XD9000 winch. I thought the ride was great. I ran L shocks all the way around. I used Christo's caster plates as well. Before this I ran Js in the front with a 1.5" spacer and it was about the same height as the 419s without a spacer.

Sounds like exactly what I am looking for. Thank you!

[2everest]

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

Michelins are bulletproof and with 15lbs of air they can run a trail and run the interstate. A nail isn't shit to them. Rocks don't phase them, neither do they adhear to them. Cut the tread blocks, shave the sidewalls, and sipe them like hell....then you might have a good performing tire on difficult trails. Sand, dirt, mud, whatever...those tires do pretty good and you never worry about a puncture. They are heavy bastards, and unless you get them cheap as hell (less than $300 for a full set w/ decent tread) they aren't worth it IMO. If you do a WHOLE BUNCH of 'expedition' style wheeling, maybe Baja or Alaskan roads/paths...then these would be great tries.

Hahaha ... I knew they were badass, but Jesus! They are about 110 pounds each, correct? I can't wait. Honestly, I always feel that my Maxxis Bighorns are gunna pop on a sharp rock, and with my gravel driveway, I pull out spitting little rocks everywhere. It's funny to see the business man in the Mercedes cussing and thowing up his hands.

Most of the wheelin we do is either muddy trails, with deep skinny ruts or a more 'expedition" type. Gravel, sand, dirt, with a lot water, etc.

I have a guy who is selling me a Brand New set of 11.00 XL's for $700. Yeah, NEW! What do you think about that price?

[2everest]