HOW TO: Dual Battery install with Hellroaring BIC-95150B plus guest appearance!

NLXTACY · 08-30-08, 11:22 PM

Hi there folks here comes another edition of "Joey needs a real job".

I went back and forth a few times trying to decide which system to ultimately go with for my system as I asked it here:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...powergate.html

I ultimately decided to go with the Hellroaring 95150B. Now I didn't see this installed anywhere else in search. For those that are not familiar, the 95150B is the one that is used for when your amperage is going to be above 80A (which mine will when I FINALLY install my 150A alternator using Photoman's alt kit/bracket). This unit also gets rid of the sensor wire and the middle lug. There are now only two lugs on this with three smaller threads.

In my particular situation I decided to go with Starter Side Isolation. The reason for this is because I will have a bunch of stuff running off the aux. battery instead of running of the main. I wanted the main battery to be for the standard vehicle functions. In a short amount of time I will be adding a third battery as a true "back-up" battery ala 450 DUDE:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...y-install.html

I started with getting the second battery tray from CDan and the used Slee's washer bottle kit. I wont go into those installs because they have all been exhaustively documented.

I need a good location for the BIC. I decided on the back side of the aux. battery nearest the fender. For the bolts I followed the previous install thread advice and used fender washers on the backside. I had a few conversations with Mike at Hellroaring and he suggested I use (2) 80A circuit breakers (or fuses) on both batteries. So I decided to go with the Blue Sea 80A Circuit Breaker from Dave's Marine because...well....they were the cheapest I could find:
Blue Sea Systems 7114 Circuit Breaker 80a

NLXTACY · 08-30-08, 11:23 PM

Now placement of the circuit breakers was a major pain in the ass. I couldn't find a good solid place to put them. I considered mounting them on the battery box but that just wasnt a good aesthetic solution. After getting frustrated I looked over to the fender bolts. Hmm. I measured where the hood strut lays and I had a piece of steel bent up by a local sheet metal shop. Took them like 6 mins and cost me like $20.

I then took the sheet metal and drilled out for the fender bolts. I then drilled it out for the 250A Mega Fuse I was going to be using for the aux. power in the cab and I drilled out for (2) 80AMP Blue Sea Circuit breakers. One is for the Hellroaring and the other is for an under hood aux. fuse panel that you can see mounted on top off the cruise control cover. After all my holes were drilled out I primered and painted the new metal and then installed it. Now its set up perfectly but I had to make sure all the wiring was done before I went ahead and cinched down the new bracket. Also, removing the air filter canister top now is a little bit of a challenge but works fine once you know what to do.

NLXTACY · 08-30-08, 11:24 PM

The next step was deciding on the battery. Well since Sears started carrying the Odyssey battery under their name I decided to go that route and got a 34M Deep Cycle battery. I found that it fit perfectly inside the new battery tray EXCEPT that it was too short. A quick trip to Pep Boys for a free battery tray riser and I was set.

Now I spent a lot of time reading "Managing 12 Volt" as a recommendation by CDan during one of our conversations. Well one of the excerpts from the book was talking about battery temperature and how its a MAJOR killer of batteries. So I decided that I would start life for this battery out right by wrapping it in a heat shield. The one I got was from ThermaTec at a cost of $26.44: https://www.shopatron.com/product/pa...er=13200/681.0

This was simple to install. It comes with an acid absorbing mat (which by the way is serious overkill with an AGM battery but heck, I love overkill). So I wrapped the mat, taped in place and then trimmed it using scissors. Then you wrap the thermal cover around the battery and mat. This thermal covering has an aluminum side and an adhesive side. Well once its cut to size, it takes about 2 minutes to completely cover the battery with new sticky heat shield.

NLXTACY · 08-30-08, 11:25 PM

More battery pics

NLXTACY · 08-30-08, 11:26 PM

Now battery is installed. I connected the ground required for the BIC to the existing ground found on the fender in the battery tray. The ground wire, connectors and 3AMP fuse are all supplied by Hellroaring.

I now needed to attach the main battery circuit breaker. This was a tougher decision for placement. I may just make something cleaner but for now where it is is fine. I mounted it on the main battery tray backside. I then hooked up the alternator and the battery power. After discussing with Mike at Hellroaring, he recommended only using 8AWG for the power cables AND at a length of 15-20ft. This was needed to supply the appropriate amount of resistance when needed.

Now the 15-20ft is from battery to battery or rather circuit breaker to circuit breaker. I had 2ft. from the BIC to the main battery which meant the remain 18ft or so needs to be spooled somewhere and then connected to the main battery side. Well turns out I had this backwards. I need to have the short run going to the main and the long run going to the aux. side. THIS IS FOR AUXILIARY SIDE ISOLATION ONLY!! (Edit: I previously stated Starter side which was incorrect)

NLXTACY · 08-30-08, 11:27 PM

All cables hooked up and everything WORKS BAD ASS!!!! And it was thoroughly tested on my 8 day, 3200+ mile trip to Yellowstone. I had aux power going nonstop, I had it on while driving and with the truck off. For hours. No problems whatsoever!!! Always starting without a hesitation. In fact my only problem I had was connecting power to the ground side of my voltmeter and rendering it useless :(

Now the only fly in the ointment was my jumper cable set up:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...er-cables.html

Turns out that the BIC is NOT set up to have THAT high of current going through it and it would pretty much toast the unit if I jump started someone. Now Mike had a workaround for me in mind. He suggested grounding out the switch part of the unit, effectively turning it off. This is an additional ground on top of the the initial install. So a relay mounted parallel with my solenoid for the jumper cables with take care of that.

For this current system I do not have an in-cab control. Reason is there is nothing to control really. It charges the batteries but preferences the aux. side. Now doing it this way IF you have a totally dead main battery, you would have to jumper the BIC to get it to start. Or use the jumper cables. But the reason I had it set up this way is because I will be adding a true main battery back up and THAT will have the in-cab switch to start from the back up. Violå, fully overkill

NLXTACY · 08-30-08, 11:28 PM

Well none other than Mike Hines himself from Hellroaring personally paid me a visit to Yellowstone at the Old Faithful lodge JUST to make sure I did everything right and to see things for himself. Of course he decided to make a weekend out of it and take his wife to see the geyser, but he came out just to see me.

At least thats what I keep telling myself.

Izeloz · 08-31-08, 12:08 AM

Got a block diagram or schematic for someone interested in a similar setup? Looks good. I love clean installs.

NLXTACY · 08-31-08, 12:22 AM

Yeah I can make one up. The one that comes from Hellroaring is kinda sad but Mike promises that change is on its way. Just so you know you would need to have particular needs in order to run it this way:
• 130/150A alternator
• aux side. accessories (starter side isolation)
• NOT using the remote

SF80 · 08-31-08, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLXTACY

I ultimately decided to go with the Hellroaring 95150B. Now I didn't see this installed anywhere else in search. For those that are not familiar, the 95150B is the one that is used for when your amperage is going to be above 80A (which mine will when I FINALLY install my 150A alternator using Photoman's alt kit/bracket). This unit also gets rid of the sensor wire and the middle lug. There are now only two lugs on this with three smaller threads.

Is this new from Mike at Hellroaring? That third stud is horrible to deal with!

BTW, my install: http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...y-install.html You can see how close the wires are on the studs!

NLXTACY · 08-31-08, 01:14 AM

Haha Brian, YOURS is why I was thinking about NOT going with the HR unit. But yeah evidently its not exactly new but because it fit my set up perfectly, Mike suggested it.

SF80 · 08-31-08, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLXTACY

Haha Brian, YOURS is why I was thinking about NOT going with the HR unit. But yeah evidently its not exactly new but because it fit my set up perfectly, Mike suggested it.

Great, thanks. Glad I could be a NEGATIVE inspiration...

NLXTACY · 08-31-08, 01:35 AM

haha, ok that came out wrong. I saw how close those lugs were to each other and that just didn't give me the warm fuzzies. There was also talk of needing the lugs to be ground down. Maybe that was you. But when I saw that image it almost made me shy away from going HR.

SF80 · 08-31-08, 01:44 AM

Yeah, I like to OVERSIZE *everything* (as I suspect you do.) Heavy duty lugs + hellroaring isolator did not mix well. I might investigate your isolator and see if Mike will give me a trade in.

So I have the 150 amp alternator, I'll be using the batteries bonded for winching, I have the remote, BUT I do not have any load on the 2nd battery when it is not bonded to the main battery. Might your setup be a better solution? Would the winch load be like your issue with your jumper cables where you would need to take the isolator out of the equation?

Maybe I should have just gone for the marine switch/solenoid solution...

NLXTACY · 08-31-08, 01:54 AM

If and when I add a winch, the winch will be driven off the MAIN battery. Perhaps the isolator I just got MIGHT be better for you. I would consider giving him a call and seeing what he says. You mentioned the batteries are bonded for winching though. From what Mike was saying THAT kind of amperage, winching (or for my case jumper cables), shouldn't be going through the BIC.

edit: unless its grounded to turn off but then your batteries wont be bonded.

SF80 · 08-31-08, 01:57 AM

Hmmmm. Ok, maybe for winching I will un-bond the 2nd battery (via the remote.) The Optima group 31 + the 150 amp alternator should provide enough power for winching.

NLXTACY · 08-31-08, 01:59 AM

Ding ding ding. Should be plenty and yes, turn off BIC when winching. You could maybe wire that parallel with the winch remote so you dont have to try and remember to do both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SF80

Hmmmm. Ok, maybe for winching I will un-bond the 2nd battery (via the remote.) The Optima group 31 + the 150 amp alternator should provide enough power for winching.

SF80 · 08-31-08, 02:20 AM

All good ideas.

Oh, yeah, nice install, as always! You've got to have more wire in that thing than any LC I've ever seen!

NLXTACY · 08-31-08, 09:21 AM

haha, if you think this is a lot of wire, wait until I do the write up for my aux.power, fuse panel and inverter. :P

BTW, I think I've done pretty well to hide all the wire as best I can. I hate seeing exposed stuff and only do it when it serves a good purpose. Like the bracket on the fender. It holds a mega amp and two circuit breakers.

NLXTACY · 08-31-08, 01:19 PM

Hi there folks, I just got an email from Mike clarifying the discussion about winching and this directly applies to the thread between Brian (SF80) and myself.

From Mike at Hellroaring:

Hello Joey,

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the trip.

One inaccuracy in particular, on Post #5, you stated that "THIS IS FOR
STARTED SIDE ISOLATION ONLY!!" . Actually, I believe that you set it up for
the Auxiliary isolation method. This is where it is most important.

Also, in that thread discussion, I see some confusion over the use for
winching. For others who installed a Backup battery setup, that is wired
differently with heavier wire with the unit with three studs and no loads on
the Backup battery. So, winching in the combined mode is ok for them. In
your case, the setup is not intended for that and if the winch is connected
on the same side as the alternator (main side as yours is presently wired),
then no remote is needed, as the BIC will automatically switch off when
winching. But, if you connect the winch on your auxiliary battery (or in
your case, your jumper connector), you must switch it off prior to winching
or cranking with a jumped vehicle.

For those using the Backup battery setup, there can be no loads connected to
their Backup battery, so the winch must be connected to the Main side,
regardless. They have the option to winch with just the main battery or
combine them and winch with both...

Let me know if you have any more questions...

Best Regards,

Mike Hines
Hellroaring Technologies, inc.
P.O. Box 1521
Polson, MT 59860
406 883-3801
406 883-1174 fax
Hellroaring Technologies, inc., Manufacturer of Solid State Dual Battery Isolator / Combiners

SF80 · 08-31-08, 01:25 PM

Excellent! This makes it sound like I'm ok since I have all loads going to the main battery. Thanks for following up on this.

NLXTACY · 08-31-08, 01:30 PM

Yup, I just wanted to make sure so I wanted Mike to read what he did. I'm glad he cleared it up and you don't have to get anything exchanged

RescueU · 06-15-09, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLXTACY

If and when I add a winch, the winch will be driven off the MAIN battery. Perhaps the isolator I just got MIGHT be better for you. I would consider giving him a call and seeing what he says. You mentioned the batteries are bonded for winching though. From what Mike was saying THAT kind of amperage, winching (or for my case jumper cables), shouldn't be going through the BIC.

edit: unless its grounded to turn off but then your batteries wont be bonded.

Hi Joey,

I just had a BIC-95150B arrive in the mail today and so I started reviewing all the old threads i'd used for my research on this project.

A question comes to mind about winching and how to bond the 2 batteries to use them in series for greater "draw depth" across both, and yet still avoid running that combined load thru the BIC.

Couldn't this be accomplished simply enough by connecting the positive leads from both batteries to a marine rotary switch? When turning to knob to the "1+2" position, that'd be pulling current from both batteries simultaneously, while avoiding pull via the BIC, wouldn't it?

I'm moderately knowledgeable and and experienced with electronics... but know well how quickly I reach the limits of my skill sets. So I ask the question for your consideration.

Thank you!

NLXTACY · 06-15-09, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RescueU

Couldn't this be accomplished simply enough by connecting the positive leads from both batteries to a marine rotary switch? When turning to knob to the "1+2" position, that'd be pulling current from both batteries simultaneously, while avoiding pull via the BIC, wouldn't it?

YES and I was just going to use a Perko switch (marine rotary switch) but have since decided to plan on hydraulic.