How bad are these birfs?

bowyer2002 · 06-26-08, 09:38 AM

I already have my stuff from Cruiser Dan to do the axle rebuild but just haven't gotten a weekend yet to do the tear down & rebuild + i need to get a FSM.

SOO - how bad are these birfs? Should I even drive it around? Its

DD and she wants to take it on a trip this weekend.

The 450 steers fine and there are no weird sounds from the wheels - last nite I even set the 450 on jackstands all the way around in my shop so it could be put into drive and I could listen to the rotating wheels while it was steered lock to lock for any noise.

nicholas · 06-26-08, 09:56 AM

It's tough to say without more info. Ultimately you can't tell until you take the knuckle apart.

When was the last knuckle service done and by whom?

Did you peek inside the hole with the square plug on top of the knuckle to see if there is any grease and or diff fluid in the knuckle? There really isn't any way to get grease inside the birf housing without taking everything apart. But I have heard of people just dumping a bunch of new grease down the square plugged hole in hopes that a birf bathed in grease would possibly gain some grease to buy them some time before the rebuild.

Do you have any clicking when ou turn?

What does your diff fluid look like? Grease contamination due to failed axle seal?

How far of a road trip are you planning on taking?

I was told by a reputable source on this board that is would be ok to fill up the knuckle with grease in order to make the 1600 mile trip back home to do the knuckle service when I was concerned about my birf's needing repacking. This is not ideal and can be a gamble depending on how bad your knuckles need servicing.

bowyer2002 · 06-26-08, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicholas

It's tough to say without more info. Ultimately you can't tell until you take the knuckle apart.

When was the last knuckle service done and by whom? who knows, we have owned it the last 50K

Did you peek inside the hole with the square plug on top of the knuckle to see if there is any grease and or diff fluid in the knuckle? There really isn't any way to get grease inside the birf housing without taking everything apart. But I have heard of people just dumping a bunch of new grease down the square plugged hole in hopes that a birf bathed in grease would possibly gain some grease to buy them some time before the rebuild.
I wasn't aware of this option - i'll have to look

Do you have any clicking when ou turn? no

What does your diff fluid look like? Grease contamination due to failed axle seal? didn't know to check, will do today.

How far of a road trip are you planning on taking? 500 miles all highway

I was told by a reputable source on this board that is would be ok to fill up the knuckle with grease in order to make the 1600 mile trip back home to do the knuckle service when I was concerned about my birf's needing repacking. This is not ideal and can be a gamble depending on how bad your knuckles need servicing.

how long did this band-aid fix take - the axle rebuild will take place in the next week or so.

BTW thanks for the suggestions!

CreeperSleeper · 06-26-08, 10:38 AM

Couldn't take too long. Remove plug, insert grease, close plug... Repeat. Step 6. 1/2 hr tops?

Beowulf · 06-26-08, 10:48 AM

Agree. Pump some moly (1/2 to 1 tube per side) in through the square plug atop the steering knuckle and take care of the axle service in a few weeks. You should be fine.

Take some HD degreaser and spray both knuckles heavily then take it to an environmental recycling station (or maybe a car wash but I would never do that myself

) and have them collect the old grease for proper recycling. That will make your job a lot easier when you get to the disassembly and cleaning steps.

-B-

bowyer2002 · 06-26-08, 10:48 AM

Thanks Creeper!

BTW what kind of grease should I use? AND should I use a grease gun (makes sense to me but I'll need to buy one!)

Is the nut on top obvious?

MoJ · 06-26-08, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowyer2002

Thanks Creeper!

BTW what kind of grease should I use? AND should I use a grease gun (makes sense to me but I'll need to buy one!)

Is the nut on top obvious?

moly fortified grease (it's in your owner's manual)
It's the only square nut on top of the housing.

CreeperSleeper · 06-26-08, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoJ

moly fortified grease (it's in your owner's manual)
It's the only square nut on top of the housing.

Yep. It's not directly on top, more like 2 o clock... But it's the only square bolt!

Joe Egolf · 06-26-08, 12:35 PM

Clean em up ,fill with grease ,you should be fine for the trip.I have seen much messier /leaky birfs that were ok after rebuild. I recommend Marlin Crawlers seals.

bowyer2002 · 06-27-08, 09:29 PM

Easy job!

Thanks for all the suggestions.
I greased them up - almost a full tube! (about 140 pumps per birf!)

That should hold for another week until I can do the whole job right!

BTW do I need a FSM or will a Haynes or Chiltons do? FSM is only available on line to me. I have used Haynes for my old pathfinder and VW bus and it was pretty thorough.

Thanks!

Miescha · 06-27-08, 09:45 PM

Where in Missouri are you located? Maybe one of us could loan you the FSM portions you need. Also, post up on the local group pages if you need help or tools.

I'm no expert, but those look more dry than wet from failed seals.

And if you're not sure what grease to use, you may not be ready to do the birf job even if you have everything from CDan - you need to buy a LOT of grease and fluid(s) for the birfs and diffs and there is plenty of obscurity regarding which grease to use and where (you'll need both moly and non-moly and some say at least 3% for the moly). Not the mention the many color choices

for grease.

Then, of course, the decision to separate the axles and swap sides on the birfs or just ignore this step. Whether to change out the knuckle steering studs for the new torx heads and, if so, what torque to tighten and whether to use loc-tite or anti-seize and where. Should you also replace the pads and rotors while there? Are you re-using the wheel bearings or replacing them? Do you have a fish scale for the preload setting? and on and on and on . . .

You get the idea.

Good luck!

Beowulf · 06-27-08, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowyer2002

BTW do I need a FSM

Yes. Hardcopy or electronic, but you need the FSM and I strongly recommend getting the EWD.

-B-

bowyer2002 · 06-28-08, 03:29 PM

miescha -
I live in NEMO - Kirksville area. I'd like to take you up on the manual loan - I 'll shoot you a U2U with my address & we can work out the details - thanks a lot for the offer!
The birfs were REALLY dry!

I have the stuff ordered from C-dan but don't know how much or what type of grease & fluids I'll need - I am assembling the required stuff (from the FAQ section) so that I don't spend allocated build time running around for parts, pieces & supplies.
I have torque wrenches, fish scales, etc and have read some of the posts here for the birf rebuilds to help with the process.
I thought I'd ask what type grease since there are several out there and designed for special applications. I have rebuilt the wheel bearnings about 50K ago but will put in new parts as part of the rebuild while I am already in there - sometimes I can work smarter & not harder...

Chevinater77 · 06-28-08, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Yes. Hardcopy or electronic, but you need the FSM and I strongly recommend getting the EWD.

-B-

EWD? Please spell out for me!

Beowulf · 06-28-08, 09:35 PM

EWD=Electronic Wiring Diagram.

Toyota produces an excellent EWD. All system are laid out in a book of 100+ pgs. All images are multi-color. It describes each connector and how to open it.

-B-

06-26-08, 09:38 AM	#1
bowyer2002 IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: KIRKSVILLE, MO Posts: 149	How bad are these birfs? I already have my stuff from Cruiser Dan to do the axle rebuild but just haven't gotten a weekend yet to do the tear down & rebuild + i need to get a FSM. SOO - how bad are these birfs? Should I even drive it around? Its DD and she wants to take it on a trip this weekend. The 450 steers fine and there are no weird sounds from the wheels - last nite I even set the 450 on jackstands all the way around in my shop so it could be put into drive and I could listen to the rotating wheels while it was steered lock to lock for any noise. Attached Images __________________ 97' LX450 (WIFE'S) OEM CUPHOLDER, PHH 01' TACOMA DBL CAB, LIFT, ARB, ARE SHELL, HI-LIFT, SLIDERS, ETC.

06-26-08, 09:56 AM	#2
nicholas IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 276	It's tough to say without more info. Ultimately you can't tell until you take the knuckle apart. When was the last knuckle service done and by whom? Did you peek inside the hole with the square plug on top of the knuckle to see if there is any grease and or diff fluid in the knuckle? There really isn't any way to get grease inside the birf housing without taking everything apart. But I have heard of people just dumping a bunch of new grease down the square plugged hole in hopes that a birf bathed in grease would possibly gain some grease to buy them some time before the rebuild. Do you have any clicking when ou turn? What does your diff fluid look like? Grease contamination due to failed axle seal? How far of a road trip are you planning on taking? I was told by a reputable source on this board that is would be ok to fill up the knuckle with grease in order to make the 1600 mile trip back home to do the knuckle service when I was concerned about my birf's needing repacking. This is not ideal and can be a gamble depending on how bad your knuckles need servicing. __________________ 97LX450, 141K, 285CooperSST's, OME851/860's, Slee SS lines, 100 pads, silicone PHH, Raventai temp, S/C in a box. Chillin' in Cornfeilds (IA) studying.

06-26-08, 10:48 AM	#5
Beowulf The quick brown fox ..... Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Somewhere in the foothills... Posts: 10,118	Agree. Pump some moly (1/2 to 1 tube per side) in through the square plug atop the steering knuckle and take care of the axle service in a few weeks. You should be fine. Take some HD degreaser and spray both knuckles heavily then take it to an environmental recycling station (or maybe a car wash but I would never do that myself ) and have them collect the old grease for proper recycling. That will make your job a lot easier when you get to the disassembly and cleaning steps. -B- __________________ 97 FZJ80 - Wing Nut MAF, locked, 315 Toyos, 4.88s, Slee 4", George's sliders, Slee bumpers, M12000, OBA, Outback drawers + other stuff. Transformation in progress... Sometimes you find yourself in the middle of nowhere. And sometimes in the middle of nowhere, you find yourself. Last edited by Beowulf; 06-26-08 at 10:53 AM.

06-26-08, 10:48 AM	#6
bowyer2002 IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: KIRKSVILLE, MO Posts: 149	Thanks Creeper! BTW what kind of grease should I use? AND should I use a grease gun (makes sense to me but I'll need to buy one!) Is the nut on top obvious? __________________ 97' LX450 (WIFE'S) OEM CUPHOLDER, PHH 01' TACOMA DBL CAB, LIFT, ARB, ARE SHELL, HI-LIFT, SLIDERS, ETC.

06-26-08, 12:35 PM	#9
Joe Egolf IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: W.Suffield Ct Posts: 384	birf's Clean em up ,fill with grease ,you should be fine for the trip.I have seen much messier /leaky birfs that were ok after rebuild. I recommend Marlin Crawlers seals. __________________ 1981 BJ42

06-27-08, 09:29 PM	#10
bowyer2002 IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: KIRKSVILLE, MO Posts: 149	Easy job! Thanks for all the suggestions. I greased them up - almost a full tube! (about 140 pumps per birf!) That should hold for another week until I can do the whole job right! BTW do I need a FSM or will a Haynes or Chiltons do? FSM is only available on line to me. I have used Haynes for my old pathfinder and VW bus and it was pretty thorough. Thanks! __________________ 97' LX450 (WIFE'S) OEM CUPHOLDER, PHH 01' TACOMA DBL CAB, LIFT, ARB, ARE SHELL, HI-LIFT, SLIDERS, ETC.

06-27-08, 09:45 PM	#11
Miescha Guy Fawkes Lives! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: St. Louis, MO TLCA# 8094 Posts: 823	Where in Missouri are you located? Maybe one of us could loan you the FSM portions you need. Also, post up on the local group pages if you need help or tools. I'm no expert, but those look more dry than wet from failed seals. And if you're not sure what grease to use, you may not be ready to do the birf job even if you have everything from CDan - you need to buy a LOT of grease and fluid(s) for the birfs and diffs and there is plenty of obscurity regarding which grease to use and where (you'll need both moly and non-moly and some say at least 3% for the moly). Not the mention the many color choices for grease. Then, of course, the decision to separate the axles and swap sides on the birfs or just ignore this step. Whether to change out the knuckle steering studs for the new torx heads and, if so, what torque to tighten and whether to use loc-tite or anti-seize and where. Should you also replace the pads and rotors while there? Are you re-using the wheel bearings or replacing them? Do you have a fish scale for the preload setting? and on and on and on . . . You get the idea. Good luck! __________________ *1996 FZJ80* (original owner) Black & Oak, 105k miles with factory F/R lockers, CDL switch, hand throttle, OME Springs & Shocks, ARB, Warn M12000, Milford Barrier, Dual Optima Blues, extended breathers, OEM dash cupholder, 285/75/16 BFG AT, Landtank seat rails, Slee AC dryer & T-case skid plates, Slee light & aux harnesses, Slee SS brake lines (frame->axle->caliper), V-1 with remote display, Icom IC-7000, Yaesu 8900R, Cobra 75wstx, Larsen NMO-2/70 & NMO-27, 100-series pads

06-28-08, 03:29 PM	#13
bowyer2002 IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: KIRKSVILLE, MO Posts: 149	miescha - I live in NEMO - Kirksville area. I'd like to take you up on the manual loan - I 'll shoot you a U2U with my address & we can work out the details - thanks a lot for the offer! The birfs were REALLY dry! I have the stuff ordered from C-dan but don't know how much or what type of grease & fluids I'll need - I am assembling the required stuff (from the FAQ section) so that I don't spend allocated build time running around for parts, pieces & supplies. I have torque wrenches, fish scales, etc and have read some of the posts here for the birf rebuilds to help with the process. I thought I'd ask what type grease since there are several out there and designed for special applications. I have rebuilt the wheel bearnings about 50K ago but will put in new parts as part of the rebuild while I am already in there - sometimes I can work smarter & not harder... __________________ 97' LX450 (WIFE'S) OEM CUPHOLDER, PHH 01' TACOMA DBL CAB, LIFT, ARB, ARE SHELL, HI-LIFT, SLIDERS, ETC.

06-28-08, 09:35 PM	#15
Beowulf The quick brown fox ..... Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Somewhere in the foothills... Posts: 10,118	EWD=Electronic Wiring Diagram. Toyota produces an excellent EWD. All system are laid out in a book of 100+ pgs. All images are multi-color. It describes each connector and how to open it. -B- __________________ 97 FZJ80 - Wing Nut MAF, locked, 315 Toyos, 4.88s, Slee 4", George's sliders, Slee bumpers, M12000, OBA, Outback drawers + other stuff. Transformation in progress... Sometimes you find yourself in the middle of nowhere. And sometimes in the middle of nowhere, you find yourself.

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