voltage light on dash on - is my alt toast?

concretejungle · 06-24-08, 11:27 AM

just wanted to verify. I was driving from one office to another today and noticed at a stop light that the voltage light was on (red light) above the voltage gauge on the dash in the 80. As i hit the gas it would go off, but if i let off the gas it would come back on.

I'm ASSuming this is indicating i'm not getting the needed charge from the alternator? I have not been home to check the owners manual or FSM yet, so i figured a quick post here would let me know.

What do you think?

Bad timing as i have purchased a car and will have it in 10 days. The 80 must have found out i was going to be cheating on her, so she is pissed. Either way, i guess this is a good time to put photoman's alternator bracket to use.

zanderjf · 06-24-08, 12:20 PM

mine does the same thing but the transmission and brake lights come on as well. I haven't taken the time to sort out what is happening but the car still runs just fine.

hj60 · 06-24-08, 01:09 PM

The light comes on cos there isn't enough voltage across the circuit to turn it off. Confused? You will be, after this episode...

1st check belt tension/condition.
2nd check wiring to alt, starter, batt, dash. Pay special attention to grounds.
3rd check FAQ. I think this has been covered fairly well.
Sears Auto Center will check your alternator in the vehicle for a fee. Many parts houses will too, some for free.
Denso alternators are nearly as bulletproof as the vehicles they're in. But, I've seen my share of em go south.

concretejungle · 06-24-08, 01:12 PM

I will check it out. Right now the Alt is covered in PS fluid since i have a PS leak. I wonder if that is what has caused it. I may just clean it up and check belts. See if that does the deed before getting a 130 amp alt.

EDIT: also i looked through the faq and did a search. Maybe i'm not the best at search but it didn't pull anything up to the effect you say is the issue. If you have a link i would appreciate it.

thanks.

hj60 · 06-24-08, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by concretejungle

EDIT: also i looked through the faq and did a search. Maybe i'm not the best at search but it didn't pull anything up to the effect you say is the issue. If you have a link i would appreciate it.

thanks.

My apologies. I'm remembering something that isn't there.
But it should be. Maybe this thread'll remedy that.

P/S fluid will damage an alternator. Eventually. It'll attract dirt which will eventually complete a circuit where it's not supposed to. Some brake clean should get it off there fairly well.
I'd bet that's causing belt slippage, too. The fluid will swell up the belt if it soaks long enough. Have a spare belt on hand cos if it soaked long enough, it will fail. Again, brake clean and compressed air will delay the inevitable.

If you've got a digital multimeter, check for a difference in voltages between the battery and + terminal on the alternator. More than a couple of volts and you're looking for wires. Also check for AC voltage between the battery terminals. More than .5V and your alternator is on its way out.

Normal charging voltage at the battery should be 13 - 14.5V at idle.
With high beams, full A/C, rear defogger and interior lights on, at 1500 - 2000 RPM, it should still be over 13V. (Don't rev it that high for too long. Just get the readings.)

Have your battery load tested. A marginal battery will kill a good alternator. A bad alternator will kill a good battery.

Hope that helps you figger this out.

RavenTai · 06-24-08, 07:20 PM

If you have an original alternator and not a rebuild Do no let it go, first thing to try is new brushes, cheap, easy to change and fixes most problems with 80 series alternaors.

concretejungle · 06-24-08, 08:07 PM

thanks guys. I checked for a loose ground, and there was one. I tightened it up, sprayed some engine degreaser on the Alt. Light is still on. Also, now the light stays on as before it would turn off while in the throttle. Now it just stays on.

The timing on this just sucks as i have a car on the way, but won't have it for about a week to 13 days. I just don't want to fiddle with this until then. I have a new bearing for the AC pulley, getting new belts and also a idler pulley bearing. Wanted to do it all at once along with the install of a 130 amp alternator with photoman's bracket. If this thing could have held out for one more week......

life i guess.

I will look into it further tomorrow.

3sacrwd · 06-24-08, 08:40 PM

That is how mine started to go. Do the tests as suggested, and go to Checker, Autozone, or batteries plus and have them do a test. That should give you an idea, and is cheap and easy. It will sure enough leave you walking if it is the battery, or the alternator.

concretejungle · 06-24-08, 08:50 PM

i seriously doubt it's the battery as it's a new yellow top optima replaced.....well, about 8 months ago.

zanderjf · 06-25-08, 07:39 AM

Uh-oh, I may have jinxed myself. This morning the car quit on me. Lost power after stopping but turned right over and ran again, quit a second time but was fine after that. The girlfriend reports that a similar thing happened to her the other morning. Strange that the lights glow from time to time but the car only quits in the morning, could it be moisture related?

concretejungle · 06-25-08, 07:41 AM

My truck doesn't quit. That sounds like a wiring harness issue if i were to guess.

My truck runs fine, just the light is on and i'm guessing my battery is not being recharged as i drive.

TrickyT · 06-25-08, 01:14 PM

With your PS leak, you may have gotten fluid on the alternator commutator and brushes. Do as RavenTai suggests: get new brushes and clean things up (especially if there's fluid inside the alt.).

concretejungle · 06-25-08, 01:38 PM

Tom,

I can replace the bushes? Kind of like the starter contacts?

TrickyT · 06-25-08, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by concretejungle

Tom,

I can replace the bushes? Kind of like the starter contacts?

Kinda like starter contacts, but of course different. First off, I assume we are talking about your '95 FZJ80 and not an earlier 3FE truck. If so, then just call CDan and order a set of alternator brushes. They are rectangular shaped things made out of carbon and encased in a white plastic holder. They are cheap. You have to pull the alternator out of the truck, but from there it's not that bad a job. Maybe an hour altogether. The procedure is described in the FSM.

Be sure to disconnect the battery before pulling out the alternator!

EDIT: Here's a thread with pictures so you can get a better idea what the brushes look like: http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...ore-after.html

concretejungle · 06-25-08, 09:10 PM

Tricky, thanks man! That's exactly what i needed to see. I'm going now to thumb thru the FSM. Been trying to get ahold of cdan. I'll try again tomorrow.

concretejungle · 06-26-08, 11:27 AM

do you all think it's safe to drive like this?

I have cleaned everything up, checked for loose ground. Still the light stays on. However, the voltage meter on the dash has the needle exactly at the same point (about a needle width above center) for two days now. Has not gone down any, nor up.

Can i keep driving around, limited driving, until i can pull the alt and start fooling around with it?

hj60 · 06-26-08, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by concretejungle

Can i keep driving around, limited driving, until i can pull the alt and start fooling around with it?

you do have AAA, right?
Yes. You can drive like this for a while while you collect parts and labor. Keep jumper cables in the rig, JIC.

RavenTai · 06-26-08, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by concretejungle

do you all think it's safe to drive like this?

I have cleaned everything up, checked for loose ground. Still the light stays on. However, the voltage meter on the dash has the needle exactly at the same point (about a needle width above center) for two days now. Has not gone down any, nor up.

Can i keep driving around, limited driving, until i can pull the alt and start fooling around with it?

what is the resting (overnight) and running voltage at your battery?

resting battery voltage should be in the mid 12's to just below 13, running should be at least 14.0, if you do not get 14._ retest with the engine at 2500 RPM. if you do not get a higher voltage than resting your alternator is not charging.

If your alternator is not charging then you are running on the battery only, when the battery is depleted you will stop running, the remaining range in the battery depends on its health, state of charge and how many accessories (headlights fan wipers radio etc) you run and how many times you start it,

If you need to drive it once to get it somewhere to work on it then give it a shot see if it makes it, use as little electrical as possible you should not drive it more than that. jumper cables will not be as much of a help as when you have a dead battery, when you jump a car with a dead battery you are then runnign on the alternator, having a dead battery and a dead alternator you would be running on whatever charge you got with the jump and it takes quite a bit of time to bring battery from dead to full charge, also automotive starting batteries unlike deep cycle batteries do not like to be deeply discharged it shortens their life.

concretejungle · 06-26-08, 07:08 PM

i have not had a chance to test the voltage. I don't have a meter. I will as soon as i can.

concretejungle · 06-27-08, 08:40 PM

no wonder my alternator was not working!! WTF! look at all the mud/grease/ATF fluid that had gotten into this thing!

First removed the battery box and battery. I have it on a trickle charger right now

THen unbolted the PS resevoir for better acess. Also pulled the dizzy cap for better access too. Might get a replacement rotor while i'm in here.

I'm going to clean it up better tomorrow with some carb cleaner. THen put a new "brush" in it.

Pics of getting to the alternator along with all the sludge problem i have.

concretejungle · 06-27-08, 08:42 PM

couple more pics showing the gunk buildup.

I also replaced the AC idler pulley bearing while i had the belts off.

concretejungle · 06-28-08, 03:36 PM

OK, cleaned it up really well. Put new brushes in and re-installed with new belts. Scangauge says i'm charging at 14.6 volts. That is at idle. Sounds about right, and the dash light is off!

The biggest pain is just getting to the Alternator. The battery box has to come out along with the battery. The PS reservoir has to be moved also.

RavenTai · 06-28-08, 04:58 PM

Nice work, 14.6 is great, your original alternator with new brushes is cheaper and more reliable than a parts store alternator. it can be done without removing the battery box, you just unbolt the PS reservoir and slide the alternator out the back, first time I did it with the battery box removed good to see how everything fits together, try it the other way if you ever need to do it again.

robmir · 06-28-08, 08:18 PM

Look it at the brighter side, you will able to upgrade it to the 130 amp alt in a breeze and with your eyes closed since you practiced with the OEM

concretejungle · 06-28-08, 08:31 PM

honestly, after you get the alternator out, putting new brushes in is super easy. Everyone should do it, just the same as if they were going to put new contacts in their starters.

Raven, I honestly don't think i could have gotten the alt. in or out with the battery box in place. THe hing for the starter and it's bolt are a very tight squeeze. I had to use a brass drift to get that fit lined back up so i could insert the bolt. With the battery box in place i couldn't have gotten the angle to tap that thing in place. Also, taking the adjuster bolts out are a breeze with the box out. With it in, those things are a pain.

The box only takes a few seconds to get out.

robmir · 06-28-08, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by concretejungle

06-24-08, 11:27 AM	#1
concretejungle IH8MUD Tour Guide Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: North Cadillac TLCA# 14646 Posts: 5,991	voltage light on dash on - is my alt toast? just wanted to verify. I was driving from one office to another today and noticed at a stop light that the voltage light was on (red light) above the voltage gauge on the dash in the 80. As i hit the gas it would go off, but if i let off the gas it would come back on. I'm ASSuming this is indicating i'm not getting the needed charge from the alternator? I have not been home to check the owners manual or FSM yet, so i figured a quick post here would let me know. What do you think? Bad timing as i have purchased a car and will have it in 10 days. The 80 must have found out i was going to be cheating on her, so she is pissed. Either way, i guess this is a good time to put photoman's alternator bracket to use. __________________ 95' FZJ80 OME med./J lift, ARB rack, ARB Bull Bar w/tmax 12,500, 315 Nitto, stainless brake lines, Center Diff Lock, Sliders, IPOR Skid, IPOR rear bumper, upgraded slee sticker, custom dents, more to come. . . Remember it's a gateway drug, so it will actually lead to "crystal meh". Last edited by concretejungle; 06-24-08 at 08:49 PM.

06-24-08, 01:09 PM	#3
hj60 paleo-conservative Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ahwatukee, Phoenix, AZ, USA TLCA# 11004 Posts: 1,390	The light comes on cos there isn't enough voltage across the circuit to turn it off. Confused? You will be, after this episode... 1st check belt tension/condition. 2nd check wiring to alt, starter, batt, dash. Pay special attention to grounds. 3rd check FAQ. I think this has been covered fairly well. Sears Auto Center will check your alternator in the vehicle for a fee. Many parts houses will too, some for free. Denso alternators are nearly as bulletproof as the vehicles they're in. But, I've seen my share of em go south. __________________ Jonathan M. Rundlett <hj60dot5@yahoo.com> Copper State Cruisers #001 Member of the Happy Hour Gang 94 locked 80 with black-hub fan clutch and 13k fluid, pin7mod 83 60 4" lift. Sold McCain. Obama. Which one's the lesser evil?

06-24-08, 01:12 PM	#4
concretejungle IH8MUD Tour Guide Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: North Cadillac TLCA# 14646 Posts: 5,991	I will check it out. Right now the Alt is covered in PS fluid since i have a PS leak. I wonder if that is what has caused it. I may just clean it up and check belts. See if that does the deed before getting a 130 amp alt. EDIT: also i looked through the faq and did a search. Maybe i'm not the best at search but it didn't pull anything up to the effect you say is the issue. If you have a link i would appreciate it. thanks. __________________ 95' FZJ80 OME med./J lift, ARB rack, ARB Bull Bar w/tmax 12,500, 315 Nitto, stainless brake lines, Center Diff Lock, Sliders, IPOR Skid, IPOR rear bumper, upgraded slee sticker, custom dents, more to come. . . Remember it's a gateway drug, so it will actually lead to "crystal meh". Last edited by concretejungle; 06-24-08 at 01:38 PM.

06-24-08, 07:20 PM	#6
RavenTai Bish-u-ryd-da-ma-da-bus Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Georgia TLCA# 14809 Posts: 5,364	If you have an original alternator and not a rebuild Do no let it go, first thing to try is new brushes, cheap, easy to change and fixes most problems with 80 series alternaors. __________________ 1988 FJ62 on 33s 1996 LX450 on 33s I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale. Thomas Jefferson

06-24-08, 08:07 PM	#7
concretejungle IH8MUD Tour Guide Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: North Cadillac TLCA# 14646 Posts: 5,991	thanks guys. I checked for a loose ground, and there was one. I tightened it up, sprayed some engine degreaser on the Alt. Light is still on. Also, now the light stays on as before it would turn off while in the throttle. Now it just stays on. The timing on this just sucks as i have a car on the way, but won't have it for about a week to 13 days. I just don't want to fiddle with this until then. I have a new bearing for the AC pulley, getting new belts and also a idler pulley bearing. Wanted to do it all at once along with the install of a 130 amp alternator with photoman's bracket. If this thing could have held out for one more week...... life i guess. I will look into it further tomorrow. __________________ 95' FZJ80 OME med./J lift, ARB rack, ARB Bull Bar w/tmax 12,500, 315 Nitto, stainless brake lines, Center Diff Lock, Sliders, IPOR Skid, IPOR rear bumper, upgraded slee sticker, custom dents, more to come. . . Remember it's a gateway drug, so it will actually lead to "crystal meh".

06-24-08, 12:20 PM	#2
zanderjf IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6	mine does the same thing but the transmission and brake lights come on as well. I haven't taken the time to sort out what is happening but the car still runs just fine.

06-24-08, 08:40 PM	#8
3sacrwd IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 47	That is how mine started to go. Do the tests as suggested, and go to Checker, Autozone, or batteries plus and have them do a test. That should give you an idea, and is cheap and easy. It will sure enough leave you walking if it is the battery, or the alternator. __________________ 1991 TLC, K & N Filter, 154,000 miles and still running strong. No major mods yet, but this may be the year.....?????

06-24-08, 08:50 PM	#9
concretejungle IH8MUD Tour Guide Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: North Cadillac TLCA# 14646 Posts: 5,991	i seriously doubt it's the battery as it's a new yellow top optima replaced.....well, about 8 months ago. __________________ 95' FZJ80 OME med./J lift, ARB rack, ARB Bull Bar w/tmax 12,500, 315 Nitto, stainless brake lines, Center Diff Lock, Sliders, IPOR Skid, IPOR rear bumper, upgraded slee sticker, custom dents, more to come. . . Remember it's a gateway drug, so it will actually lead to "crystal meh".

06-25-08, 07:39 AM	#10
zanderjf IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6	Uh-oh, I may have jinxed myself. This morning the car quit on me. Lost power after stopping but turned right over and ran again, quit a second time but was fine after that. The girlfriend reports that a similar thing happened to her the other morning. Strange that the lights glow from time to time but the car only quits in the morning, could it be moisture related?

06-25-08, 07:41 AM	#11
concretejungle IH8MUD Tour Guide Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: North Cadillac TLCA# 14646 Posts: 5,991	My truck doesn't quit. That sounds like a wiring harness issue if i were to guess. My truck runs fine, just the light is on and i'm guessing my battery is not being recharged as i drive. __________________ 95' FZJ80 OME med./J lift, ARB rack, ARB Bull Bar w/tmax 12,500, 315 Nitto, stainless brake lines, Center Diff Lock, Sliders, IPOR Skid, IPOR rear bumper, upgraded slee sticker, custom dents, more to come. . . Remember it's a gateway drug, so it will actually lead to "crystal meh".

06-25-08, 01:14 PM	#12
TrickyT Hate that mud... Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Mill Valley, CA TLCA# 14435 Posts: 192	With your PS leak, you may have gotten fluid on the alternator commutator and brushes. Do as RavenTai suggests: get new brushes and clean things up (especially if there's fluid inside the alt.). __________________ Tom Ferrin N6TEF - 2m and 70cm 1989 FJ-62 - 200K, 3" OME lift, recent engine overhaul, my daily driver 1997 FZJ-80 - 85K, lifted, bumpers, sliders, lockers, and Moab-trails tested

06-25-08, 01:38 PM	#13
concretejungle IH8MUD Tour Guide Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: North Cadillac TLCA# 14646 Posts: 5,991	Tom, I can replace the bushes? Kind of like the starter contacts? __________________ 95' FZJ80 OME med./J lift, ARB rack, ARB Bull Bar w/tmax 12,500, 315 Nitto, stainless brake lines, Center Diff Lock, Sliders, IPOR Skid, IPOR rear bumper, upgraded slee sticker, custom dents, more to come. . . Remember it's a gateway drug, so it will actually lead to "crystal meh".

06-25-08, 09:10 PM	#15
concretejungle IH8MUD Tour Guide Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: North Cadillac TLCA# 14646 Posts: 5,991	Tricky, thanks man! That's exactly what i needed to see. I'm going now to thumb thru the FSM. Been trying to get ahold of cdan. I'll try again tomorrow. __________________ 95' FZJ80 OME med./J lift, ARB rack, ARB Bull Bar w/tmax 12,500, 315 Nitto, stainless brake lines, Center Diff Lock, Sliders, IPOR Skid, IPOR rear bumper, upgraded slee sticker, custom dents, more to come. . . Remember it's a gateway drug, so it will actually lead to "crystal meh".

06-26-08, 11:27 AM	#16
concretejungle IH8MUD Tour Guide Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: North Cadillac TLCA# 14646 Posts: 5,991	do you all think it's safe to drive like this? I have cleaned everything up, checked for loose ground. Still the light stays on. However, the voltage meter on the dash has the needle exactly at the same point (about a needle width above center) for two days now. Has not gone down any, nor up. Can i keep driving around, limited driving, until i can pull the alt and start fooling around with it? __________________ 95' FZJ80 OME med./J lift, ARB rack, ARB Bull Bar w/tmax 12,500, 315 Nitto, stainless brake lines, Center Diff Lock, Sliders, IPOR Skid, IPOR rear bumper, upgraded slee sticker, custom dents, more to come. . . Remember it's a gateway drug, so it will actually lead to "crystal meh".

06-26-08, 07:08 PM	#19
concretejungle IH8MUD Tour Guide Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: North Cadillac TLCA# 14646 Posts: 5,991	i have not had a chance to test the voltage. I don't have a meter. I will as soon as i can. __________________ 95' FZJ80 OME med./J lift, ARB rack, ARB Bull Bar w/tmax 12,500, 315 Nitto, stainless brake lines, Center Diff Lock, Sliders, IPOR Skid, IPOR rear bumper, upgraded slee sticker, custom dents, more to come. . . Remember it's a gateway drug, so it will actually lead to "crystal meh".

06-28-08, 08:18 PM	#24
robmir IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: South America Posts: 571	Look it at the brighter side, you will able to upgrade it to the 130 amp alt in a breeze and with your eyes closed since you practiced with the OEM __________________ 1993 FZJ80, 2" OME, 305/70-16, Auburn Locker, F&R TJM bullbars,Long Range 150 ltr gas tank, 170 Amp alt, 240 amp 3 Battery Isolator & 3 Deep Cycle batt,4 DBA slotted rotors, Carbon/Ceramic pads, SS/Teflon brake hoses, Warn 9000, PIAA 80 Racing,Coil&Shock Dampened Front Seats.Engel 60 Qts Fridge.

06-27-08, 08:40 PM	#20
concretejungle IH8MUD Tour Guide Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: North Cadillac TLCA# 14646 Posts: 5,991	no wonder my alternator was not working!! WTF! look at all the mud/grease/ATF fluid that had gotten into this thing! First removed the battery box and battery. I have it on a trickle charger right now THen unbolted the PS resevoir for better acess. Also pulled the dizzy cap for better access too. Might get a replacement rotor while i'm in here. I'm going to clean it up better tomorrow with some carb cleaner. THen put a new "brush" in it. Pics of getting to the alternator along with all the sludge problem i have. Attached Images __________________ 95' FZJ80 OME med./J lift, ARB rack, ARB Bull Bar w/tmax 12,500, 315 Nitto, stainless brake lines, Center Diff Lock, Sliders, IPOR Skid, IPOR rear bumper, upgraded slee sticker, custom dents, more to come. . . Remember it's a gateway drug, so it will actually lead to "crystal meh".

06-27-08, 08:42 PM	#21
concretejungle IH8MUD Tour Guide Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: North Cadillac TLCA# 14646 Posts: 5,991	couple more pics showing the gunk buildup. I also replaced the AC idler pulley bearing while i had the belts off. Attached Images __________________ 95' FZJ80 OME med./J lift, ARB rack, ARB Bull Bar w/tmax 12,500, 315 Nitto, stainless brake lines, Center Diff Lock, Sliders, IPOR Skid, IPOR rear bumper, upgraded slee sticker, custom dents, more to come. . . Remember it's a gateway drug, so it will actually lead to "crystal meh".

06-28-08, 03:36 PM	#22
concretejungle IH8MUD Tour Guide Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: North Cadillac TLCA# 14646 Posts: 5,991	OK, cleaned it up really well. Put new brushes in and re-installed with new belts. Scangauge says i'm charging at 14.6 volts. That is at idle. Sounds about right, and the dash light is off! The biggest pain is just getting to the Alternator. The battery box has to come out along with the battery. The PS reservoir has to be moved also. __________________ 95' FZJ80 OME med./J lift, ARB rack, ARB Bull Bar w/tmax 12,500, 315 Nitto, stainless brake lines, Center Diff Lock, Sliders, IPOR Skid, IPOR rear bumper, upgraded slee sticker, custom dents, more to come. . . Remember it's a gateway drug, so it will actually lead to "crystal meh".

06-28-08, 04:58 PM	#23
RavenTai Bish-u-ryd-da-ma-da-bus Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Georgia TLCA# 14809 Posts: 5,364	Nice work, 14.6 is great, your original alternator with new brushes is cheaper and more reliable than a parts store alternator. it can be done without removing the battery box, you just unbolt the PS reservoir and slide the alternator out the back, first time I did it with the battery box removed good to see how everything fits together, try it the other way if you ever need to do it again. __________________ 1988 FJ62 on 33s 1996 LX450 on 33s I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale. Thomas Jefferson

06-28-08, 08:31 PM	#25
concretejungle IH8MUD Tour Guide Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: North Cadillac TLCA# 14646 Posts: 5,991	honestly, after you get the alternator out, putting new brushes in is super easy. Everyone should do it, just the same as if they were going to put new contacts in their starters. Raven, I honestly don't think i could have gotten the alt. in or out with the battery box in place. THe hing for the starter and it's bolt are a very tight squeeze. I had to use a brass drift to get that fit lined back up so i could insert the bolt. With the battery box in place i couldn't have gotten the angle to tap that thing in place. Also, taking the adjuster bolts out are a breeze with the box out. With it in, those things are a pain. The box only takes a few seconds to get out. __________________ 95' FZJ80 OME med./J lift, ARB rack, ARB Bull Bar w/tmax 12,500, 315 Nitto, stainless brake lines, Center Diff Lock, Sliders, IPOR Skid, IPOR rear bumper, upgraded slee sticker, custom dents, more to come. . . Remember it's a gateway drug, so it will actually lead to "crystal meh". Last edited by concretejungle; 06-28-08 at 08:39 PM.