Ruin Cody's day in 3...2...1... (rear locker?)

[CodyRx7]

I'm hoping for a simple explanation that isn't a big deal...but I fear that it probably is a big problem that is going to make me hate everything.

So heres the deal:

I hit the switch for my ARB compressor....it turns on.

I hit the rear locker switch.....the compressor doesn't turn off.

(normally it turns on for 2 seconds, activates the locker, and switches off)

I go back and check the lines...I hear hissing.

I run my fingers all around the line, no air leaks....then I check the top of the rear axle breather.....THATS where the air hissing is coming from.


So....

Since this never happened before, and not at all while wheeling in Sedona and turning the lockers on and off...

I'm wondering whats wrong.

There is a very strong axle grease/diff oil kinda smell (which I assume is normal since its air rushing out of the rear axle breather.

What gives?

There is no oil spray or leak around the compressor.

There is no oil leaking from the front or rear 3rd or even out of the breather.

I'm pretty sure air is not supposed to be pressuring the entire diff, just a part of the locker...so I'm worried something is broke?

[CodyRx7]

Googling stuff about this....its seeming that the only way for air to be outside the locker like this would be the "ARB o-ring failure".

This really confuses the hell out of me, since each post about this mentions a bad install....but ZUK professionally installed the lockers and gears himself.

The posts also mention "your aging ARB locker."

Mine is what......2 weeks old?

WTF?!!?!

[619TOY]

Take a deep breath there little buddy, I'm sure everything will be ok. I've dealt with enough electrical and mechanical components in my life to know that anything can fail, sometimes even before it is installed. You know that ARB is good stuff and you know that ZUK is top notch, so this is probably an unfortunate fluke. Have you given ZUK a call yet? That would be my first move. I'm sure that everything will work out in the end. When we push our rig's to the extreme, we need to be willing to welcome the pitfalls that come with our decisions

[concretejungle]

not that big of a deal i believe. I remember reading about this several times. Someone will chime in with the dealio.

[CodyRx7]

I just spent a few THOUSAND dollars on parts and install and all of the driving parts to ZUK in Phoenix and back.

I think I'm going to spontaneously combust if this is a few day old, 50 cent O-ring failure that is going to cost me another few hundred dollars in teardown, transport, labor, etc...



Can anyone confirm that it is definately an O-ring failure if the entire diff is pressurizing and not just the locker?

[Cruiserdrew]

Do this first. Go out and drive and make sure the oil is warm. Then activate the locker. If you already did that, then you are screwed and it needs to come apart to be fixed. Still, at least with the FF axle, the tear down is less than an hour.

Your installer should stand behind this one.

[CodyRx7]

This is what I found which is basically identical to my issue:

One day on the trail I hit my front locker and my compressor just ran and ran. I new I had an air leak, but I wasn't sure where it was. I did the normal thing and popped my hood and hear air coming up from the radiator, but that didn't make sense because there isn't an air line there. After some more digging we realized it was coming from my axle housing vent tube. That can mean one of two possible problems. The air line has come loose in the housing or an O-ring has failed. I was able to get 4 good years out of the front/rear. The rear is still working so lets see how much longer I can go before it fails.

ARB lockers work great, but even they have a weakness. Its a small O-ring that costs no more than a couple of bucks. The only problem with replacing the O-ring is you have to literally take your ARB locker out of the axle housing which means you guess it. Everything must come out/off. Wheels, calipers, rotors and axle shafts. Its not really a difficult task, but just time consuming.

[CodyRx7]

Oil was warm....I was driving for about 30 minutes and stopped at my gf's parents house for a minute. I was showing her dad the newest additions to the truck and noticed the compressor kept running when I engaged the rear locker - instead of turning off in 2 seconds.

Thats when I checked the lines and found the air to be rushing out of the axle breather.

[azzzuki]

Hey cody; I cant belive u got dave to set up yr gears.....When i ask him last year to set up mine he said NO!....
.Im sure u wil figger out the leak...

Rob

[CodyRx7]

"Dave"?

Zuk's name is Ken (IIRC)

[ecameron87]

Cody, it is possible that the copper line that goes from the third member housing to the ARB unit could have been pushed into the ring gear while you were installing the third member back into the housing. I saw your third members at Zuk's house when I went to go pick up mine. He was doing my set at the same time as yours. I remember thinking "how do you keep the copper line from rubbing against moving parts, it looks like close tolerances?" I promise I didn't touch them! It is a soft copper line that can bend easily and I know it is a bear to reinstall that third member. Maybe the line got bumped somehow?I suggest that if you definately know that the leak is in the axle, pull the third member and then pressure test it again outside of the vehicle to get a better look at things.This is a major bummer. I feel your pain!!!

[CodyRx7]

While I can't completely rule that out...everything was working fine for a few days.

Testing the lockers and compressor when it was all buttoned up - everything was great.

Wheeling in Sedona, testing the lockers on that one steep rock climb thingy in the middle of Broken Arrow - everything turned on, worked, and shut off as it should.

See - I would have assumed if it was something like an o-ring or the copper line problem - it would have shown up when I was wheeling.

I wheeled some trails in Sedona....and drove home. Tested the lockers a few days later (today) and only today was the problem happening. ??? :(

[CRUIZER DAN]

sounds to me like the o-ring same thing happened to me the part cost $1.00 but labour to replace it was around the $150.00 mark and i pulled the center out my slef

[lx450landcruiser]

is there any worry about the pressure with in the diff causing problems with seals around the bearings in the axle? I know its unrelated and although pressure is obviously being released through the diff breather might be cautious about running the compressor to "test" scenarios Just a thought

[powderpig]

If it is not the small wiper O rings, it could be the piston O ring or the air supply pipe. Stuff happens and it does not mater when it happens(either on the trail or just showing it off to a friend). Give Zuk a call and see what the deal is. Any how the rear will have to be taken out and taken back to the Zuk to look at and fix. It happens once in a while. I do these installs as well, I do a good job and some times stuff messes up or I just plan make a mistake(mechanics are humans too, we can make mistakes), or even sometimes it is the piston O ring, or the housing, which is not fault of any one but ARB. Good installers will take care of you. Cheer up it will be right soon. Later Robbie

[sleeoffroad]

Did you install the diff or did Zuk? It is pretty common that people bump the copper airline that comes from the bulkhead fitting to the seal housing (the part where the O rings are in). This is way more common than the O ring just failing. When you bump the airline you either screw up the seal housing centering or you can also push it into the locker. So now the little line is against a rotating part and could eventually wear a hole in it.

So it is entirely possible that Zuk still did and excellent job, bench tested it, cycled it etc etc but the damage was done post install. Either transporting the diff or trying to get it back in the housing.

[edit] Sorry, didn't see that it was already covered in post 11. Just wanted to add this since we have seen quite a few of these cases. Also not sure what vintage locker you got but ARB did change the seal housings to make it easier to center. They used to screw on and were fixed position but now the float using a circlip type arrangement.

The "it works for a while" makes me thing the line rubbed through on a rotating part. The O ring can not just blow. How many miles on the lockers? We have seen it where the O rings were ground flat due to excessive metal in the diff oil from parts that wearing incorrectly or breaking in. We recommend changing your diff oil 500 miles after install.

[azzzuki]

Originally Posted by CodyRx7

"Dave"?

Zuk's name is Ken (IIRC)

We must not be talking about the same guy, the guy im talking about used to be in to Samurai's and now sets up alot of gears.

[ecameron87]

Originally Posted by azzzuki

We must not be talking about the same guy, the guy im talking about used to be in to Samurai's and now sets up alot of gears.

Still sounds like the same guy. Ken used to run around in a Samurai (hence the nickname.) Here is his website:
Toyota Gear Installs

[CodyRx7]

ZUK suggested to try gently tightening the external hose connection since he believes this may be the culprit.



While he is the expert, I would assume that if that guy wasn't tight the air would be escaping around the threads outside and I could feel it with my fingers around that connection...?

Someone else who had the same problem (air rushing out of the axle breather, compressor not turning off) found the problem to be in the 2 o-rings in the seal on the ARB.

The seal is the little ring he is removing that is attached to the copper line inside.



The air is pumped into the seal assembly, comes out this pin hole:



and enters the pin hole on the locker to activate it:



This is what he found inside:

[e9999]

if it was installed there, you're golden, they should take care of you.
If you installed it, well try to see if it's an installation problem or not.

[Leroy]

while i can not be of any help here..... i got a real good chuckle out of the title of your thread.

keep your sense of humor and hope maybe it's a simple fix. good luck.

[CodyRx7]

ZUK did all the work on the 3rds.

Me and another MUD'er used a rolling floor jack to slide the 3rds back into the housings to ensure nothing was going to scrape or contact the copper hard lines inside.

So I didn't touch anything on the lockers or gears install myself outside of putting the newly customized 3rds back into the housing.

I'll check the nipple o-ring as ZUK suggested and report back.

[Tapage]

subscribing to know the end of your history .. anycase you have a chance to be a part of the next saga of fantastic 4

[B.C. Hoshall]

My rear ARB is now 12 years old. Has seen 3 different R&P Ratios and has clocked only about 50k since installation. My breather is run into the rollcage and I have the same problem SOMETIMES...
Have you checked your diff fluid level? Mine will act up when low. I know someone mentioned temperature, and mine is more prone to hissing when cold. Lance at IPOR used to give me a hard time about having to "Warm up my Diffs" prior to wheeling.
If the fluid level is good, I would drain and check the plug magnet for debris.
Either way, no solutions here, just my 2 pesos.

[CodyRx7]

I'll report back with the current fluid level (was topped off with no leaks after everything was buttoned up)

Where is your hissing coming from?

If I understand these things correctly, there should be no "loose air" in the housing at all....and mine is definately in the housing and releasing pressure through the breather on the rear axle.

[B.C. Hoshall]

My air leak is coming through the extended breather from the innards of the differential. Sometimes I smell the gear fluid before I hear the hissing.

What happens when you cycle the compressor until it cuts out? Do you wait until the pressure is peak before engaging the locker?

[CodyRx7]

That sounds like mine...but the compressor never shuts off.

I always turn on the compressor....it runs like 2-3 seconds and stops. I assume this means it reaches its PSI setting which is why it then turns off.

Hit the rear......BRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.....(locker clicks in) and it stops.

Now it just stays BRRRRRRRRRRing away, I can't tell if the locker clicks in at all in the rear.

If I click the front locker....it will lock the front and the whole thing turns off.

I don't know if the whole setup thinks the rear is done and focuses air only on the front locker after I hit the front switch, but the front locker locks in and the compressor cuts out like the job is complete.

There is no air leak at all in the front lines or locker.

[B.C. Hoshall]

I may not have the correct pressures but here goes:

The compressor has a <90psi cut in and a > 110psi cut off pressure valve wired between the switch and compressor motor.

The control solenoid delivers appx 10psi to via the blue tube to engage the locker.

If you have a faulty O-ring in the rear, the compressor still has enough pressure to activate the working front.

I assume you have a ARB Compressor with integrated tank? No auxillary?? This would explain why the compressor kicks on again just after you try to engage the rear locker.

Check for junk in the pumkin juice but it looks like we both need a new O-