Hafc Install Thread! (mpg Increase?!)

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by SS_Storm

none. I checked it against my buddies honda and it read the same speed. 35 inch MTR's and 488's

In order to do an accurate MPG calculation you will need to have an accurate odometer. Yours is off. The percentage it is off is between 5% and 6%. Your truck will show more miles traveled than actual, skewing your MPG calculations by ~6%.

-B-

[SS_Storm]

ok, well keep that in mind for me :-P

[medtro]

Originally Posted by Beowulf

In order to do an accurate MPG calculation you will need to have an accurate odometer. Yours is off. The percentage it is off is between 5% and 6%. Your truck will show more miles traveled than actual, skewing your MPG calculations by ~6%.

-B-

It is not necessary to do this when he is interested in "at least 50% gain". He is looking for the gain percentage, not X MPG.

[Elijah]

Originally Posted by medtro

It is not necessary to do this when he is interested in "at least 50% gain". He is looking for the gain percentage, not X MPG.

But it does relate to his initial '17-18 mpg starting point'.

[medtro]

Originally Posted by Elijah

But it does relate to his initial '17-18 mpg starting point'.

I didn't say it is not related.

[Elijah]

Originally Posted by medtro

I didn't say it is not related.

I didn't say that you said that it's not related.

[nakman]

are you guys related?


Let's see the new mileage, already.

[medtro]

Originally Posted by Elijah

I didn't say that you said that it's not related.

May be you should not have quoted me in your post.

Okay, I am done with this hijack.

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by medtro

It is not necessary to do this when he is interested in "at least 50% gain". He is looking for the gain percentage, not X MPG.

And I didn't say it was necessary for the 50% numbers. I only said that is necessary to adjust his calculations for an accurate MPG based on his tyre size and gear ratio.

I stand by my post.

-B-

[Elijah]

Originally Posted by medtro

May be you should not have quoted me in your post.

Okay, I am done with this hijack.

Ouch. Sorry, man. I'm done too.

[Elijah]

Originally Posted by Beowulf

And I didn't say it was necessary for the 50% numbers. I only said that is necessary to adjust his calculations for an accurate MPG based on his tyre size and gear ratio.

I stand by my post.

-B-

With this I do agree. While the percentage of change will be consistent, the actual MPG difference will need to be adjusted for the incorrect reading from the odometer with 4.88 gears and 35" tyres.

[psreno]

Well, I must admit I was skeptic. One of my engineers put a HHO system (ebay, $150) in his '70 Impala with a carb'd sbc. He went from just under 16 to just under 24 mpg increase over a 200 mile hiway test drive. He also mentioned a smoother acceleration although he was unable to quantify. I trust his measurements as I need repeatable results from his bench work - he's very careful with the little variables.

Anecdotal evidence is cheap, although I can rely on his measurement. But the reason I bring it up is that I don't see any reason these kits can't be fabbed up for cheap. For our crowd we would need a non-breakable cannisters instead of mason jars.

What else can one do with HHO? Flamethrower? Watch me light the fire!
Or how about into a heat exchanger such as in how a hot water heater works in a camper.

Any other ideas?

[medtro]

Originally Posted by Beowulf

And I didn't say it was necessary for the 50% numbers. I only said that is necessary to adjust his calculations for an accurate MPG based on his tyre size and gear ratio.

I stand by my post.

-B-

I didn't say that you said that it was necessary. Kidding

You are absolutely correct and accurate.

[SS_Storm]

So I tested twice tonight. first test I got 14.9 mpg than I tuned it got 18.1 mpg I have alot more head room too. I will continue tuning and keep you all updated

[landtank]

Originally Posted by SS_Storm

So I tested twice tonight. first test I got 14.9 mpg than I tuned it got 18.1 mpg I have alot more head room too. I will continue tuning and keep you all updated

I'm having a little trouble with what your doing. I thought you already tuned the truck before the first run. Then when you actually saw that your MPG was worse you tuned the truck again and are now back to where you started before you installed this unit and you're now going to tune the truck a 3rd time?

To me the % of HHO/GAS should be a constant throughout the operating range and the tuning should be to a specific target. Hit your target and your done.

It looks to me that you have this Optomizer Gizmo that you are diddling with until you get better MPGs.

[sundaypunch]

Originally Posted by Beowulf

In order to do an accurate MPG calculation you will need to have an accurate odometer. Yours is off. The percentage it is off is between 5% and 6%. Your truck will show more miles traveled than actual, skewing your MPG calculations by ~6%.

Won't bigger tires make his mileage show worse than it actually is?

Say X number of wheel revolutions on stock tires = 100 miles. With bigger tires each revolution travels further (larger tire circumference). X number of turns might equal 110 miles when his odometer shows 100 miles travelled.

[alia176]

Originally Posted by Beowulf

In order to do an accurate MPG calculation you will need to have an accurate odometer. Yours is off. The percentage it is off is between 5% and 6%. Your truck will show more miles traveled than actual, skewing your MPG calculations by ~6%.

-B-

Does it really matter how accurate his odo is in the long run? We're looking for the delta increase. As long as he keeps using his inaccurate odo throughout the entire project, he'll be fine.

[Elijah]

Originally Posted by sundaypunch

Won't bigger tires make his mileage show worse than it actually is?

Say X number of wheel revolutions on stock tires = 100 miles. With bigger tires each revolution travels further (larger tire circumference). X number of turns might equal 110 miles when his odometer shows 100 miles travelled.

Don't forget that he has regeared to 4.88's along with the 35" tires. So he is actually overgeared by 5-6 percent, as Beo had stated.

[charleston]

Originally Posted by sundaypunch

Won't bigger tires make his mileage show worse than it actually is?

Say X number of wheel revolutions on stock tires = 100 miles. With bigger tires each revolution travels further (larger tire circumference). X number of turns might equal 110 miles when his odometer shows 100 miles travelled.

Correct, My od is off about 8% with 285/75 and shows less miles traveled then actual. When I figure mpg I just do the math and add 8% to come up with the final figure, usually add about 20 miles to a tank.

The best way to check is to use a gps to track your miles traveled against your od, especially if you can do a 300 mile run without stopping.

[medtro]

Originally Posted by alia176

Does it really matter how accurate his odo is in the long run? We're looking for the delta increase. As long as he keeps using his inaccurate odo throughout the entire project, he'll be fine.

X2. This is what I was trying to say without questioning -B-.

[sundaypunch]

Originally Posted by Elijah

Don't forget that he has regeared to 4.88's along with the 35" tires. So he is actually overgeared by 5-6 percent, as Beo had stated.

My bad, I missed the re-gearing. The overgearing will make the mileage look better than actual - won't the larger tires negate this?

[Aseif007]

I've got a GPS unit and I am close by. That is an accurate way to track milage IMHO. I also saw a little piece on Yahoo this morning briefly talking about how these kits don't work, and that they may void warranty and so on. I am willing to give it a chance no matter how skeptical I am because if it works, it works. PM me if you are interested, I would love to see your setup.

[SS_Storm]

Sure! anyone that wants to see it, I have kinda breezed over because I wanted to get it all tuned before people came to check it out. I don't care anymore hahaha PM me for anyone who wants to see.

So land tank- the tuning is not hit and miss, I am doing some testing for myself. I did one of these on a tacoma one time that when put into cruise control would start runnin like crap. turned out it would lean the mixture automatically when in cruise for better mileage. I am trying to see if the cruiser has this point because I do not feel good about hitting it. it is a far too lean situation and could damage the engine.
SO im just goin a little bit at a time.

[jjcobm]

A few months ago a buddy and I from my AET (automotive engineering technology) class tried playing with the hho idea for the heck of it to see if this would work. We built different set-up to see which would make greater hho gas. (They are really cheap to make). We ended up giving up on the project due to a few issues with the system.

First off, forcing the pcm into a lean state as most of these kits do is not the way to go. In order for your engine to get the best fuel economy is to have some sort of regulator/sensor that ties into the pcm letting it know how much hho gas is going into the combustion chamber just as it does for gasoline. What these systems are doing is just burning unmetered fuel (hho) causing a rich state, then your o2 sensor doesn't know what to do and it leans out your gasoline fuel. It can no way control the amount of hho gas being fed into the engine because that is fed into a vacuum line. What is the perfect air fuel mixture for gasoline? 14.7:1 and the pcm does this through sensors and the fuel injectors and it is always constantly enriching and leaning fuel to compensate. I believe doing an hho setup without sensors is like having the opposite of a vacuum leak. And worse, is leaning out your engine manually. What happens when temperatuew changes, or bad gasoline, you never know when you will hear pinging.

Secondly, I read here that the tundra leaned out with cruise control. Modern OBD2 vehicles are programmed to have what is called a lean cruise mode which is what happens when you drive 60mph on the highway (don't need to have it on cruise), you only need around 10hp at that speed to keep the car at a constant speed so some cars will just shut off the injectors on various cylinders. I will have to look it up but I believe some also do lean out the fuel to a point.

The magnets will do nothing and that has been proven. I can think of more things but these are just some of issues with hho and why we gave up the project.

I am not being skeptical, but I just want to point out that in order to take hho and really have a reputable kit you have to do a lot of measurements and calculations to get true results and that is engineering.

[Ebag333]

I tracked down the Mythbusters where they were trying to run a car on hydrogen.

They couldn't get their internet system to work (though I did see a few flaws with it), but they actually got the rig to run on pure hydrogen (bottled).

The problem was, the second time they tried it, they had a nice backfire that would have caused some serious damage had the hood not been open.

What prevents this system from having the same issue, since you're just dumping the "water gas" into the air intake?