Hafc Install Thread! (mpg Increase?!)

[dmos]

I don't mean to Hijack the thread... I am eagerly awaiting the results of this experiment. However I just got 16.9 mpg on a trip Between Okanagon WA <--> Seattle WA ..and thought I'd chime in.

Test Case:

*Locked/Stock '97 80 w/no mods (unless Landtank's rail extenders count ) New fluids, well tuned & maintained.

*2 Passengers, no gear to speak of.

*Nighttime travel (no traffic), 50-60mph sustained.

*Filled to the neck and used Cruise control over ~150 miles (regular)

Results: I tracked at 16.8 mpg in both directions.

<end hijack>

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by IdahoDoug

The way the 17.9mpg was achieved was not posted, but I'd be interested as much in an attempt at accurate MPG testing as in the modification itself.

Doug,
Actually, he indirectly posted how the mileage calculation was performed. The manufacturer has a "methodology" that the customer is required to use if they have any chance at getting a refund based on not achieving the 50% improvement mark. That method is the "orange" method; so called as "apples-to-apples, oranges-to-oranges." The details are in the link that I posted that has the warranty for the HAFC unit.

Basically, they want you to use the same pump on the same day and to fill the tank to the same level. They want you to drive a round-trip of ~50 total miles, all on multi-lane freeway, minimum hills, minimum traffic, minimum braking. Maintain a steady MPH (50-60mph) and use the cruise control. There were a few other details like consistent tyre pressures and vehicle load and things like that. Mostly good, common sense recommendations for achieving consistent before/after comparisons.

The same "orange" method must be used post install. Same station, same pump, same route, same speed and distance; within 2 weeks of the install and final tuning by the trained tuner.

The issue that I have with the "orange" MPG method is that it only runs the vehicle for ~1hr and I question whether that gives the ECM enough time to revert to a base configuration (richen the mixture) once it detects the excessive lean conditions being forced by the black-box.

As you said, the proper way to measure MPG is over a much longer distance and multiple tanks. It can all be highway if that is your goal, but IMHO, you cannot get a good measurement of MPG with a ~50 mile trip.

-B-

[sundaypunch]

If anything, basing this on a pre-mod number of 18mpg is very conservative for him. His improvements if any would look much better if he used a more realistic baseline.

Just going from 15 to 18mpg would already be a 20% jump.

[Romer]

And I repeat

Originally Posted by Romer

Enough Chat about this

No bumping the thread to the top

Wait tell he posts the results please!

Your friendly 80's moderators who are starting to get cranky. Ok we have always been cranky

[reffug]

Originally Posted by Romer

Enough Chat about this

No bumping the thread to the top

Wait tell he posts the results please!

Your friendly 80's moderators who are starting to get cranky. Ok we have always been cranky

Originally Posted by Romer

And I repeat

and to think I always thought I was the cranky one...................

[SS_Storm]

WOW! sorry guys I have been seriously busy. Life is insane. I will tune the kit tonight but so far I am LOVING the power increase! seat of the pants its quite noticeable, I have my idle set extremely low and it idles so smooth with no shake at all. I can have my hand on the oil cap and it feels like a cars motor or better, no shake. I have a video going through on you tube right now of I think like a 0-50 acceleration run off of a stop light on a totally flat run. you know my truck so this may or may not show anything you can tell but it feels great to me. engine is stock except for snorkel and rear resonator is cut off.
YouTube - Land Cruiser HAFC
I can e-mail the origional video to whoever wants it.

ok so you tube looks to have made it too resolution. anyone know how I can make this different? I want you to see the speedo needle


AND I have not even started the tuning process. I have been waiting on my oscilloscope to get here and a couple offsets I had to build (secret tuning items :-P) the O-scope is VITAL to getting it tuned to as lean as I can get it without throwing a code

Yes starting from a number of 15mpg would be easier BUT 18 is gonna be a much bigger increase also I wouldn't throw out 15 if I got 17.9 its not cool. I dont know how I got almost 18 I never get more than 14 to a fill up with combined city and highway driving

[concretejungle]

good job coming back and posting. I was worried you were scared off!

Now tune that sucker and give us some data! Also, any pictures of the equipment installed?

[NLXTACY]

The ONLY thing that video proves is people listen to sucky music

[landtank]

How did you set your idle?

[SS_Storm]

LMBO are you calling crystal method Sucky?!? :-P I call it classic hahahhahahahaa

Setting the idle just happens with the tune... I have installed 3 kits now and have never had one change idle. I have this one idling around 250 rpm tho Ill take a video of all the components installed and the idle and engine running smooth b4 I tune tonight

[landtank]

Originally Posted by SS_Storm

Setting the idle just happens with the tune... I have installed 3 kits now and have never had one change idle. I have this one idling around 250 rpm tho Ill take a video of all the components installed and the idle and engine running smooth b4 I tune tonight

The idle is controlled automatically by the ECU. You're getting different results from this install than 3 previous ones, I'd take it slow.

[SS_Storm]

the only thing I have any doubt about is how I wired in the intake air temperature wire. maybe you could help me. is the intake temperature sorted out by the MAF? thats where I figured it was from my schematics but I am more than happy to take any advice

[landtank]

The 94s use a different AFM than the 95+ trucks but I do beleive that the IAT sensor is still in the AFM attached to the filter cover. I just don't have the schematics to confirm that or know which wire it is.

[jditom]

Originally Posted by SS_Storm

WOW! sorry guys I have been seriously busy. Life is insane. I will tune the kit tonight but so far I am LOVING the power increase! seat of the pants its quite noticeable, I have my idle set extremely low and it idles so smooth with no shake at all. I can have my hand on the oil cap and it feels like a cars motor or better, no shake. I have a video going through on you tube right now of I think like a 0-50 acceleration run off of a stop light on a totally flat run. you know my truck so this may or may not show anything you can tell but it feels great to me. engine is stock except for snorkel and rear resonator is cut off.
YouTube - Land Cruiser HAFC
I can e-mail the origional video to whoever wants it.

ok so you tube looks to have made it too resolution. anyone know how I can make this different? I want you to see the speedo needle


AND I have not even started the tuning process. I have been waiting on my oscilloscope to get here and a couple offsets I had to build (secret tuning items :-P) the O-scope is VITAL to getting it tuned to as lean as I can get it without throwing a code

Yes starting from a number of 15mpg would be easier BUT 18 is gonna be a much bigger increase also I wouldn't throw out 15 if I got 17.9 its not cool. I dont know how I got almost 18 I never get more than 14 to a fill up with combined city and highway driving

Next time film in the day time and leave out the music. We want to hear the engine not tunes. Just m2$

[SS_Storm]

ok cool I got it right than.

During the day I had too much glare you couldn't even see the gauges and the road sooo Id get some dork on here sayin I had the truck on jackstands

[Riad]

Glad to see this coming along good. I am curious to see your spark plugs. Take some pictures of those if you can.

Thanks

[SS_Storm]

Another acceleration run YouTube - Land Cruiser HAFC

[SS_Storm]

YouTube - Land Cruiser HAFC 3
Heres a rundown of my setup and im off to tune

LOL anyone care to see me explode some hydrogen?

[SS_Storm]

Ok so bad news guys.
This is my truck I just did a tune up not long ago blah blah its been maintained. it runs well so I didn't do my homework.

The guy that told me my 02 sensors were out gets a pat on the back. they are DEAD no switching going on AT ALL which I have never seen. most switch 10 times a second!

SO this means my orange test (initial mileage test) results have to be disregarded and I cannot even guarantee myself a # for my mpg's without lieing to the factory. Which I will not do.

So can we all agree that 16.8 can be a number I can shoot for 50% more than? this is now just for fun because I just assumed that since it was my own truck nothing was wrong with it. on a customers car I check first thing if its 02 sensors work.

I dont know. my goal is now simply to get as high of mileage as I can.

[reffug]

Hell Blake I don't think anyone is going to hold you to 18. You could use 15 as a starting point and if you saw a 50% increase from that I would be thoroughly impressed.

Although I am still skeptical I am definately intrigued to see the results.

[F0RSAKEN]

I will admit, I am skeptical as hell too, but I still want to see your results, and I wont hold it against you for trying when it turns out you got ripped off

But really man, I hope this works out, I'd be happy to get 16mpg regularly, as I'm getting around 11 right now.

[landtank]

are you reading those sensors with the HHO active? A dead sensor should have shown as a CEL before you started the whole project.

[landtank]

thought I'd add something else here.

When working with TurboCruiser on my MAF sensor we noticed that when the stock MAF got saturated during a boosted state the O2 sensors would shut down. Since my MAF doesn't do that the O2 sensors stay active through out the operating range of the engine.

You seeing both sensors dead might be a result of the electronic piece you wired in. If that has changed a sensor reading enough to be out of limits the ECU might be shutting itself down.

Not knowing what's in that box, I would imagine that there is a setting that doesn't influence any of the sensors and just passes the signals through un altered, is this where you are at?

[SS_Storm]

Ok so I am only modifying the 02 sensors when seeing the flat line with my scope so I am guessing I don't know how to use my scope. I am not getting a MIL before the HAFC or now so I assume I just don't know how to use my new toy.
along this line of thinking I have been tuning it like normal. and it seems to be responding well. I should be able to have time to finish tuning tomorrow

[landtank]

this isn't an area where you want to assume the problem is with you and not the system. If the ECU is shutting down you are loosing a lot of compensation and safety by running the truck with it like that.

[SS_Storm]

I was the idiot! sorry I read the instructions on how to use the scope now :-P
heres a pic of it going-

I knew I had wired it right and couldn't figure what the problem was. Thanks for the concern land tank! truck is almost done tuning but I am gonna take a mileage reading tonight and see where I am at.

[concretejungle]

SS, what is that reading? Is that voltage from the O2 sensors?