Hafc Install Thread! (mpg Increase?!)

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by SS_Storm

OH! and theres more ways to tune, its hidden :-P they teach us how in the classes but we sign a contract saying we won't disclose how SORRY!

This thread really needs to be in chat. This is not a tech thread and is certain to turn into a divisive topic. Chat will sort out the claims and it will still be here on 'Mud for all to participate. Besides, the 40 & 60 drivers need to improve their fuel economy too.

-B-

[SS_Storm]

what ever you think beowulf, I would prefer to stay in here but if you have a problem with me upholding something I signed than chat it is ;-) if everyone knew how how would we make any money?

Also it is tech I am showing myself bolting stuff on my truck thats awesome tech! :-P
and if its a source of division who cares, I dont think Pamela Anderson is attractive you do, I could care less. it should be the same in here I believe I will get better mileage I really don't care if people don't believe I will but if they pose something I can answer like a question Id love to reply :-) and if I don't
get any gains I will tell you all. If I do but less than 50% Ill tell that too. unbiased reporting

[lx450landcruiser]

Originally Posted by Beowulf

This thread really needs to be in chat. This is not a tech thread and is certain to turn into a divisive topic. Chat will sort out the claims and it will still be here on 'Mud for all to participate. Besides, the 40 & 60 drivers need to improve their fuel economy too.

-B-

Dude whats wrong with some one trying something new? if you dont "believe" in it then just skip past the thread. Not saying this is legit but hey if some ones willing to try it and post up then more power to them.

[e9999]

the good thing about all this is that it proves that the major car companies, their engineers, marketers, designers, and accountants are all idiots since they spent billions trying to buy politicos to nix the CAFE increase, and here they could install this kind of gizmo all along and double their CAFE with no trouble at all....

[reffug]

Its stays in tech for now.

I also am very skeptical however it is being installed on an 80 and we will at least wait until the results are in before we all go over the deep end and call BS. I for one don't know enough about the system in question to ascertain its validity, however I do question the 'sense' in purposely running ones engine as lean as I believe this is suggesting. Also I don't ever see how this could even be contemplated for a forced induction rig.

Let it run its course fella's.

[powderpig]

Hello Blake:
I am wondering what your level of Mechanical background is? Are you a tech with several years of experience in Auto repair? Interesting stuff. I have been too busy the last several weeks to really look into this stuff yet. I have contacted a trainer to see what the costs are associated with this just to find out info. So you went to the 5 day class in Phoenix? Or was it longer? Anyhow good luck with this project, looking forward to seeing the numbers and how much it works for you.

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by lx450landcruiser

Dude whats wrong with some one trying something new? if you dont "believe" in it then just skip past the thread. Not saying this is legit but hey if some ones willing to try it and post up then more power to them.

Mikey,
I am not challenging if this is a valid topic for discussion on 'Mud and there is nothing wrong with someone trying something new, even if it is a well-documented scam perpetrated by a convicted felon (e.g. Dennis Lee.)

However, I don't believe that this is a valid TECH topic any more than a thread about my new friend from Nigeria who wants to send me TWELVE MILLION US AMERICAN DOLLARS so I can do a few more mods to my truck. Neither of these topics are 80-Series tech, and both are well known scams. Chat, I say.

I'll leave you with a few clichès.
"There is a sucker born every minute."
"A fool and his money are quickly parted."
"Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see."


Take the $3,000 dollars you'll spend on this snake oil and buy stock in Exxon. You'll be able to retire when you reach my age.

[Disclaimer: I am not a financial adviser. You assume all risks with investments. The stock market may go up and it may go down. I have no control over the stock market. I make no representations as to the validity of a recommendation to buy or sell Exxon. I have no ownership in Exxon. I cannot even buy their fuel 'cause there isn't an outlet in my city. Do whatever the hell you want to do but pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. That is all. Please don't sue me.]



-B-

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by reffug

... we will at least wait until the results are in before we all go over the deep end and call BS.

Too late.

Originally Posted by jonheld

I call BS.

Jon has already called BS in post #24 and I agree.

-B-

[SS_Storm]

Powder- I am a mechanic from a course I took in high school so I am legal to work in a shop but I have no experience in a shop professionally ( I sell fiber optics for a living)

[alaskacruiser]

While I am a skeptic, I'm going to wait for some objective data (dyno results, a good # of sample points, customer reports from guinea pigs...oops I mean forum members) before I conclude anything. I would think the company would realize that funding objective test methods to collect data for specific vehicles would really help sell their product, but the proof is in the pudding, so perhaps that's why they're being so vague about it.

[EricG]

Well, I'll say right up front that I'm digging for my hip waders before slogging into this - my BS meter is pegged.

Originally Posted by SS_Storm

I did my "orange test" today which is where we test the exact hwy MPG to get a baseline for the at least 50% gain or money back claim. this has to be performed exactly as the instructions say in order to get the money back if you end up needing it.

Mileage with cruise set at 65mph was 17.9mpg
I cannot test city mpg with the kit for the improvement because I cannot recreate the exact scenario due to traffic lights ect.

So guaranteed I will hit 8.9mpg better which is 26.8... lets see if I can hit that but I am planning on much more. I am setting my GOAL at 35mpg highway

So what are the details of this "orange test" for your baseline MPG check.

OH! and theres more ways to tune, its hidden :-P they teach us how in the classes but we sign a contract saying we won't disclose how SORRY!

Of course - this is the out.

If it doesn't work as advertised, you must not have installed & tuned it correctly - so either shell out $$$ for a certified installer or $$$ for the course. So then even if they have to refund for the kit (which probably has about 300% markup or higher) they still make their $$$ on the training and installation. And I'll bet that getting your refund is a long drawn-out process with plenty of caveats, gotchas and PITA factor - if its possible at all. In the end many will likely abandon the process and write it off.

if everyone knew how how would we make any money?

Uhm - by selling a quality product and/or service that works and is suitably protected by patents and such if necessary. You know, the way the rest of the legitimate market works.

[Romer]

Being an engineer I am always skeptical, but I have learned from experience to withhold judgment until the complete story is told.

I would hate to have Blake decide to stop posting.

[alia176]

Heck I'm skeptic too but this is his money and I hope he gets positive results.

Good luck man.

[EricG]

Originally Posted by alaskacruiser

While I am a skeptic, I'm going to wait for some objective data (dyno results, a good # of sample points, customer reports from guinea pigs...oops I mean forum members) before I conclude anything. I would think the company would realize that funding objective test methods to collect data for specific vehicles would really help sell their product, but the proof is in the pudding, so perhaps that's why they're being so vague about it.

I'd prefer that some of these reports didn't come from people with a vested interest in selling the kits and/or installation as well.

[Silicon 70]

I've been looking at this kit as well and was hoping to install it on my 80. Keep posting your results for us to see because all it takes is one person to do it then alot more will follow.

[reffug]

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Too late.

Jon has already called BS in post #24 and I agree.

-B-

duly noted...................

but I am at least gonna wait till it does or doesn't work before I go ape shit about my own opinions on the topic.

let it ride gentlemen.

[Ebag333]

Originally Posted by EricG

So what are the details of this "orange test" for your baseline MPG check.

Google FTW.

The Revolution is in your hands.....Hydro-Assist Fuel Cell

HOW TO PROPERLY TEST THE MILEAGE (orange test)

There are all sorts of variables in short term testing for mileage increase. Is it winter or summer? Was it windy the day the test ran; were there favorable or unfavorable weather conditions? Did you go up hills or down hills, and have to start and stop more? Many things must be considered, including your driving habits, traffic patterns, weather conditions, geography of the land, and many other variables. In order to properly test the mileage of a vehicle, it is important to limit all variables except the vehicle itself. That way the vehicle can tell you what has happened to its efficiency by comparing an orange to an orange. You must test your mileage BEFORE you install the HAFC Kit, and then again AFTER. Here’s how to conduct your mileage test…

• Find a freeway with at least three or four lanes going in your direction, with an entrance and exit on both the north and south side of the freeway. It should be the straightest and most level strip of freeway available to you. There must also be a gas station on one side or the other at the exit.
• Stop and fully gas up your car until it is absolutely full to the top. If you want to be absolutely sure, use a funnel to top it off.
• Travel at least twenty miles or more, in one direction or the other to a u-turn that goes over the freeway and heads back in the direction you came from. USE CRUISE CONTROL TO MAINTAIN A CONSTANT 55mph SPEED!
• Go back to the exit you got on and get off. Go back across the freeway to the gas station you gassed up at and top it off once more.
• The amount you used to travel the forty or fifty miles (whatever the mileage was for the total trip) will determine your mileage on the highway. Go at least forty miles in total.
• Divide the miles by the amount of gas used to get miles per gallon of gas.

We provide more information about this test with the kit.

Sounds like a fair test, at least.


A couple of things.

I, along with others, have serious problems in the believability here. There's a lot of psuedo-science here, but a lot of it just doesn't make sense (like the magnets...I mean....come on!). Some of it does and could no doubt be applied to increase fuel milage and perhaps even power (such as injecting hydrogen). There are methods to producing hydrogen that with refinement might make it worth-while (such as Directory:John Kanzius Produces Hydrogen from Salt Water Using Radio Waves - PESWiki ). But producing hydrogen on the fly isn't there, yet, certainly not in the size of generators we're talking about here.


There are some people doing amazing things with vehicles. Take this guy:
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html

Definatly believable, and it's interesting that he uses hydrogen as a supplemental fuel. However he's not "generating" it, but is just using it from a tank.

There's definatly a lot of stagnation in the auto industry as far as improving fuel milage goes. There's been lots of ways to do so that have been ignored. Heck, just switching vehicles to diesel would greatly improve fuel milage. So making the arguement that "if it was so good all automakers would be doing it" doesn't really hold up that well.

It'll be interesting to see where this thread goes.




/me edits

Just found this on the "main" site for this.

For example, one critic of Dutchman Enterprises (a man who has hunted Dennis Lee like a mad dog for over twelve years) claims that “ex-convict Dennis Lee is behind this”. In fact, Dutchman Enterprises is NOT owned by Dennis Lee. The Director of Marketing for Dutchman Enterprises is Dennis Lee. He is an employee. We find him to be not only extremely effective in his job, but also a very honest Christian man. He was in prison for two years about fifteen years ago for not filling out a form, a civil code (cc1812) violation.

Dennis Lee's free electricity PICC and HAFC claims

Yup. That's a person I want to hand thousands of dollars over to.

[sprocket3]

Where are the results from the 80??? That's what i want to read about. Enough talk, now out with the numbers. If they are good we need to have it verified by a 3rd party that has nothing to gain either way.

Either way there will be some crow to eat here. You all better eat up when it's time.

Please finish your rig and take it for a long drive so we can know what it gets with the new system....

[EricG]

Originally Posted by Ebag333

Google FTW.

The Revolution is in your hands.....Hydro-Assist Fuel Cell



Sounds like a fair test, at least.

Actually, I'd say it is far to short, particularly for more efficient vehicles. The reccomended test length of 40 miles could be as little as 1 gallon of gas for some vehicles, so any measure would be very sensitive to the fuel fill level.
Of course, it could go either way - was the initial fill short, or the final fill?

I'd say that you need to burn a substantial fraction of the tank to get a realistic number. And really, this should, averaged over several samples.

Of course a short test could be advantageous for the post-install test. If what some people are suggesting about the computer on this tricking your ecu into running the engine extremely lean, then the first few miles might well show improved economy (though not to the levels claimed). But a longer test may end up with the ECU giving up on the O2 sensor readings and run open-loop and show lower efficiency over all.

[SS_Storm]

LOL lots of people have thrie undies in a bundle over this.
but progress will be slow during the week I have a real Job I sell Fiber optics. I have not chosen to turn this into a business yet, many people I know that are doind it are getting threats over the phone so Im not sure where I stand on trying to make it a source of income, Im only doing it for a few close buddies after this.

[fzjconvert]

Threats for what?

[Ebag333]

Originally Posted by fzjconvert

Threats for what?

• You stole my money.
• Where's the refund I was promised?
• You claimed I'd get 50% increase.
• I just burnt up my motor.
• You lied to me.

Just a couple I've seen from doing some very basic research on this.

[fzjconvert]

OH OK, Ouch! I get it, I am a skeptic too. However, to Blakes credit he has not tried to sell anything and he is installing the kit on his own rig. This alone should have kept the flaming down but, I guess some have to pee on new ideas no matter what.

Personally, I am looking forward to the end result. If it works, great! Better for all of us. Heck, I'd buy a 100 series in a second, for the wife and sell her Camry. The mileage being similar with a hafc system.

Dave