REAL TIME HELP!!!! It did it again this morning!!!

[kino1161]

I psoted that other days that the truck would not start and I cleaned the contacts, jumped it off and it started fine. This was this past Tuesday, May 13th. Well, this morning, it started fine for my wife to take the boys to school, she comes back home for an hour and goes back out to go somewhere and it will not start!!! What is going on? Please help!!! 1996 L/C!!!

[IdahoDoug]

You removed and opened the starter, cleaned the starter contacts and put it back in?! Clarify.

DougM

PS - also clarify "will not start". Won't turn over? Will turn over, won't catch? Just clicks? What?

[Cj80cruiser]

I think he's saying he cleaned his battery terminal contacts. In his other thread this is what he was talking about. The starter would be my prime suspect.

Have you haven't started changing out those vacuum lines yet have you?

[Fly Rod]

Did you test the battery/Alt function? If they are good then I would suspect the starter. When mine started this I would wait a couple minutes and it would start. As it got worse it took longer between no start/start (ftf more often.) Didn't you say the dealer replaced it recently? Try to get it replaced under warrenty.

[e9999]

have you checked the battery, as discussed elsewhere?

If the battery is charged and good, then the next likely culprits are the connectors, cables, starter etc


(why are you starting a new thread on this?)

[CodyRx7]

Actually check the positive connection on the battery.

I stopped my truck for 5 minutes.....got back in to start it and CLICK......nothing.

I pop the hood and checked the battery terminals and the second I touched one everything powered up.

About an inch or 2 from the ring around the terminal, I noticed that the metal tab had a large crack in it...not visible, but apparently enough to cause a break in the power from the battery past that spot on the cable.

Replaced that connection, all is well again.

[kino1161]

No, I am doing everything this weekend.

Well, I went to get the battery checked and they said that the battery does not have a dead cell, but there is something "draining" the battery. That should be the alternator, right? I already ordered bushings this morning. Please, correct me if I am wrong.

[Atoyot1031]

I'd focus on the starter, it sounds like it may be time to replace the contacts and the plunger ~$50 IIRC from cdan.

[malmon]

Originally Posted by kino1161

No, I am doing everything this weekend.

Well, I went to get the battery checked and they said that the battery does not have a dead cell, but there is something "draining" the battery. That should be the alternator, right? I already ordered bushings this morning. Please, correct me if I am wrong.

You "might" be wrong. A drain can come from anywhere and not necessarily from the alternator. You might have a shorted wire, a light that was left on, anything. I wouldn't go to the alternator immediately. You might have even left something charging overnight. One time a penny was left stuck in the ashtray and shorted the lighter connection.

Look for other drains first before going to the alternator.

[kino1161]

Well, I put new speakers in all my doors last Saturday. Maybe I'l go back in there and make sure no wires are touching. My positive wire battery terminal was not tight, I could turn it with my fingers (I just found out, I was only messing with the negative), but it seemed there was still contact.

Why didn't I check my positive? Because I broke down on the road a few months ago on a trip to GA. The mechanic replaced all those wires from the positive terminal and all seemed well over there on that side of the battery. Well, it wasn't because I could turn the nut with my hand.

This is FRUSTRATING!!!

[reffug]

Originally Posted by kino1161

No, I am doing everything this weekend.

Well, I went to get the battery checked and they said that the battery does not have a dead cell, but there is something "draining" the battery. That should be the alternator, right? I already ordered bushings this morning. Please, correct me if I am wrong.

They [a shop] told you this but could tell you nothing more?

They have all the diagnostic gear at their disposal.............

[kino1161]

They just said that "the reason the battery was going dead wansn't from a dead cell, but that something was draining it like the alternator". Their exact words.

[BrotherRob]

Does it click when you try to start it? That is a telltale sign of worn starter contacts/plunger. Have you put a volt meter on the battery? It should have 12-13 volts, and should retain that voltage after sitting. You keep indicating that the battery is draining, how can you tell? If you don't have a meter, they are about $20. From your discription, it runs fine once started, that likely rules out the alternator.

[kino1161]

Yes, it runs fine once started and you can continue to re-start as long as it is not too much time between re-starts, atleast that is how it is right now.

It clicks repeatedly when you turn the key.

[BrotherRob]

Originally Posted by kino1161

Yes, it runs fine once started and you can continue to re-start as long as it is not too much time between re-starts, atleast that is how it is right now.

It clicks repeatedly when you turn the key.

Hard to tell on the web, but it sounds like starter contacts to me. When they are worn, the starter doesn't get full power and won't engage properly. Its usually worse when cold. Sounds like you've checked all the connections. A voltmeter can rule out a drain on the battery. The way would be to turn on the headlights after it has been sitting and check the brightness.

[Cj80cruiser]

Originally Posted by kino1161

My positive wire battery terminal was not tight, I could turn it with my fingers (I just found out, I was only messing with the negative), but it seemed there was still contact.


This is FRUSTRATING!!!

I'm as guilty as anyone that gets into a panic when I can't figure out what is wrong with my truck because it makes my life just a little harder not having it run correctly. To me the positive battery cable not being connected all the way is a problem whether you think it's getting contact or not. Do the simple stuff first. In the last thread you started I stated to make sure they were clean so the alternator can charge your battery correctly well the postive not being connected tightly could also do this.

Look at it like this, make sure your connections to the battery are clean and tight to where you can't turn them by hand. Then order you starter kit. Even if tightening the cables works it won't hurt anything to replace these parts on your starter.

[kino1161]

I went and purchased a voltmeter. While at the Auto Store I checked and it read 12.00 OFF and 13.00 ON. When I got home I replaced the Negative terminal with a new one and checked again with the voltmeter. It then read 13.00 OFF and 14.3 ON!! Why would it jump like that just because I changed a terminal. I think the one I just changed was an original.

Also, even though Toyota just changed my starter back before X-mas, I may still need to rebuild??? I hope the negative terminal was the problem.

[BrotherRob]

Originally Posted by kino1161

I went and purchased a voltmeter. While at the Auto Store I checked and it read 12.00 OFF and 13.00 ON. When I got home I replaced the Negative terminal with a new one and checked again with the voltmeter. It then read 13.00 OFF and 14.3 ON!! Why would it jump like that just because I changed a terminal. I think the one I just changed was an original.

Also, even though Toyota just changed my starter back before X-mas, I may still need to rebuild??? I hope the negative terminal was the problem.

It depends on where you are putting the test probe. If it is on the cable connection, then that would indicate that the connection has improved. If you are testing the battery directly, then the voltage shouldn't go up unless the motor has been run in the interim. The increased voltage while running indicates that it is getting power from the alternator. Make sure all the connections are clean and tight. If Toyota changed the starter, I would let them figure it out if the problem continues.

[Cj80cruiser]

Originally Posted by kino1161

Also, even though Toyota just changed my starter back before X-mas, I may still need to rebuild??? I hope the negative terminal was the problem.

Did you say that in the first thread? I honestly forgot which is a good reason to keep posting in the original thread.

[Proven]

Okay, so

A) You have a voltage issue/power issue not a "starting problem." These two issues are usually confused because what you want isn't happening. The fact that it starts every time you give it enough juice would lead me to look else where.

B) Car batteries have some quirks about them. There is surface voltage and there is actual voltage. With the engine running it is expected that you will see a spike over 12 that could be +1 to +4 volts higher. This usually won't stay constant, but if I remember right there is a spec'd range of surface voltage (my word I learned working on boat engines after having to go over and over and over this with customers). Getting excited about volts isn't going to fix your problem, lets talk about AMPS and is your battery rated to the type of AMPS needed to crank this bad boy over? How old is your battery and what type of battery is it?

C) How long have you owned the vehicle without similar issues. Has it ever had problems starting, be detailed as you can be. Even if you can only say that it has happened off an on for 10 years but now just suddenly it happens every 3 days. It is pointless to discuss in any detail with just the problem for information. We need some more history about recent items you may have installed or "fixed" recently.

The first break through you have given us is that there is a bleed and that you recently did some stereo work. Telling us about the speaker install is pretty important. I have had to backward troubleshoot toooooooo many customers that have recentley installed something and forgot to mention it when dropping off a dead boat. Radios were very high on that list of things which could kill a battery.

Here is an idea - remove the fuse for the radio and leave it out for a week after ensuring the battery is good and charged. If the problem went away and does not come back you might be onto something if you know the pattern to which this issue usually shows it's head.

I have not heard of a starter bleeding down a battery unless it has had loose connection, check the connections and ensure they are tightened to spec. Alternators can sometimes bleed down a battery because they have rectifiers that create DC out of AC current. A diode internal to the alternator could failed and allow current to go backwards thus draining the battery. You need to use an amp draw meter for both scenarios to be verified. Please don't throw parts at it without testing anything. That way you can verify how much current is coming out of the battery to the culprit component.

In my experience starters and alternators are rare. It is usually a raw positive wire pinched somewhere that has current at all times. Very few items have current after the key is turned off, start looking there after you verify that there is a bleed.

Something else to pay attention too is the grounds. This little detail is very important because it is the flow of energy through your engine. Typically in Japanese made products the grounds are toggled in order to create the circuit. Be sure they are all shiny and tight. While it might not fix your issue, it is just good PM. Ensure that your ground wires are tight, clean, and protected with anti-rust/corrosion products.

Just my two cents...

While I might be crazy as hell...I have the scars to show I've learned some lessons.

[BrotherRob]

That's all fine and dandy Proven, assuming there is a drain on the battery. That has yet to be determined. Kino went out a picked up a voltmeter and it showed a full charge. He did have a loose positive and possibly a damaged negative cable. That, hopefully, is the entire problem. I say keep it simple, there's no reason to start chasing ghosts until you know you have one.

[kino1161]

Thanks, again, guys! I love this board!

[Cj80cruiser]

Originally Posted by kino1161

Thanks, again, guys! I love this board!

Is it fixed? What was the problem?

[LC80Ducati996]

Use the amp meter function of your meter. Remove one cable from the battery and connect the meter between it and the battery.

Dont run anything huge like the starter hooked up like that but look for current flow with everything off.

I have found drains like this in the past on other vehicles. Then you can go thru and check things to see what makes the drain go away.

[kino1161]

No, it is not fixed. I changed my EGR Modulator, TB Gasket, PCV 1 & 2 hoses (with grommets) and vacuum hoses. I had planned to do that for the last week. Well, from FRIDAY night until SUNDAY morning my truck was broken down. The battery was disconnected while I worked on everything above. Well, SUNDAY morning around 10:00 I go to the garage to start the truck and she cranks right up as if nothing was wrong. Remember, the battery was DISCONNECTED!! Well, it started up and drove fine yesterday. I go to start the truck this morning on my way to work and.....................click,click,click,click,cl ick!!!

I did not have a chance to go back behind my radio to see if wires were touching or anything, but I will today.

With all of that, any more ideas???

[e9999]

did you measure the battery voltage after it failed to start the engine? Was it 12.6V or less?