Regular or Supreme Gas?

Harpenden fjz80 · 05-10-08, 05:39 PM

Hey,
I just got a 95 fjz 80 and just wanted to know what the verdict was on regular or supreme gas? Thanks
Victor

lowbanks · 05-10-08, 05:46 PM

Just use regular unless you have a knocking (pinging) problem that can't be cured.

On a well maintained, well tuned engine there is no advantage to a higher octane gas (huge advantage to the oil companies).

campoj2 · 05-10-08, 06:05 PM

The horse was beat dead a long time ago on this one. Lowbanks is dead nuts on with his post, the engine was built to eat shi* gas from 3rd world countries.

webelk6 · 05-10-08, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowbanks

Just use regular unless you have a knocking (pinging) problem that can't be cured.

On a well maintained, well tuned engine there is no advantage to a higher octane gas (huge advantage to the oil companies).

How about the mid grade version? I use that and today after filling up the

cruiser at the tune of $3.84/gallon, I had 2nd thoughts.

alkaline747trio · 05-11-08, 12:56 AM

Premium, and advance your timing to take advantage of it. Usually burns a little cleaner too...

Brian894X4 · 05-11-08, 03:45 AM

This is probably new information and will probably surprise a lot of people, but I have in my hands a fairly detailed article written in 1993 by a British Mag about the new 1FZ at the time, that specificly says that Toyota claims the new duel knock sensors and engine management system will allow the engine to make more power when using higher octane fuel.

I have no idea if this truly accurate or even possible. All I can do is report what the article says.

Of course, I always use regular and with these prices see no reason not to keep doing that. Besides, the power increase, if true, is probably a bit minimal.

Blue Phoenix · 05-11-08, 07:09 AM

I think I am going to have to get serious about monitoring my gas mileage. I have long wondered what the difference in mileage would be from a tank of premium and regular in this vehicle. As stated above, it was designed to run on extremely low octane gas if need be, but Im also not sure if the difference would be enough to justify paying 20 cents or more a gallon for the sweet stuff. The next couple of fillups will tell.
In my thinking though, I at least feel like running high octane fuel will reduce engine deposits over time and save me a little money from having to do more maintenance because of it. Someone please flame me if I sound like an idiot!

FirstToy · 05-11-08, 02:03 PM

That's good to know Brian- it's just like all new Toyota suv's
I accept the knock retard sensors will allow better use of premium but I have to say, "so what?" A tad more power on the 80 is like a tad more fat on a 500lb man's neck... no one's going to notice and it doesn't make any differnce if you do.

Blue Phoenix,
premium isn't any "cleaner" than regular. It doesn't clean the engine any more than regular. That is a function of additives. Higher octane makes the fuel more difficult to detonate (thus less knock and used for high compression engines).

gnx7 · 05-11-08, 02:35 PM

If you plan to have the computer "relearn" and adjust for better fuel quality.... make sure you remove both battery connections for a few minutes AFTER you have put a full tank of 91+ octane in it. Then the computer will relearn and create settings for the better octane in tank.

The Supra 2JZ-GTE is like this where you can put in 100 octane unleaded, remove the battery connections for a few minutes, then reconnect and it allows more boost/timing etc.

How much more power our 4.5i will make with better octane.... and if you will be able to feel it in a 6000lb truck..... who knows?!?!?!

fjfar80 · 05-11-08, 10:48 PM

I will add my $.02 on this one. Since purchasing my truck in 2006 I have always used "premium" fuel or 92+ octane. I have noticed that it seems to run extremely smooth and the one time I used "regular" or 89 octane (due to no other fuel being available) I noticed a difference. The engine seemed a bit rougher and did not seem as smooth when accelerating. Now, the way I look at it the extra $4.00 is worth it when you talk about $.20 more per gallon and 20 gallons going into your tank. Anyway, I have no data to support my observations but; I make sure only the best goes into the truck (oil, fluids, etc.) so, higher octane fuel can't be a bad thing.

lowbanks · 05-12-08, 04:06 AM

Even though I wear a size 9 shoe, I notice that when I put on a size 13, I run much faster.
I've googled this to death and can't find 1 article to support using higher octane on a well maintained engine if all that's called for is 87 octane.
The cost savings over years (and gallons) of gas purchases would buy you a new engine if you stick to regular.

Pogue · 05-12-08, 04:09 AM

mine run great on crap

campoj2 · 05-12-08, 06:48 AM

What is the compression ratio of the 1FZ engine?

alkaline747trio · 05-12-08, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowbanks

Even though I wear a size 9 shoe, I notice that when I put on a size 13, I run much faster.
I've googled this to death and can't find 1 article to support using higher octane on a well maintained engine if all that's called for is 87 octane.
The cost savings over years (and gallons) of gas purchases would buy you a new engine if you stick to regular.

Or.....you could save money by running premium because your premium economy is 4mpg better than your regular economy and my engine is pretty damn spotless inside too. But I'm desmogged, tweaked, and my compression ratio is greater than stock.

Ruadhrigh · 05-12-08, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

Or.....you could save money by running premium because your premium economy is 4mpg better than your regular economy and my engine is pretty damn spotless inside too. But I'm desmogged, tweaked, and my compression ratio is greater than stock.

and not a 1FZ

Hilux · 05-12-08, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstToy

That's good to know Brian- it's just like all new Toyota suv's
I accept the knock retard sensors will allow better use of premium but I have to say, "so what?" A tad more power on the 80 is like a tad more fat on a 500lb man's neck... no one's going to notice and it doesn't make any differnce if you do.

Blue Phoenix,
premium isn't any "cleaner" than regular. It doesn't clean the engine any more than regular. That is a function of additives. Higher octane makes the fuel more difficult to detonate (thus less knock and used for high compression engines).

Thats exactly right. I maybe wrong, maybe right, but I consider the lower grade of fuel closer to Diesel. And guess why Diesel is so efficient?

The higher grade was explained to me as a harder to burn fuel. In high performance HIGH COMPRESSION RATIO cars, the ping you hear of low test is the gas combusting before the spark a few degree's before TDC. The "high test" lets the engine get to max timing before the ignition. Like Diesel the low test will combust (NOT ignite) with higher compression ratio's....PING!

Quote:

Originally Posted by campoj2

What is the compression ratio of the 1FZ engine?

9.0:1............22RE's are 9.3:1

they should run on alcohol

alkaline747trio · 05-12-08, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruadhrigh

and not a 1FZ

Older and less sophisticated.......the 1FZFE has one more knock sensor than I do, and OBDII.

alkaline747trio · 05-12-08, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstToy

Blue Phoenix,
premium isn't any "cleaner" than regular. It doesn't clean the engine any more than regular. That is a function of additives. Higher octane makes the fuel more difficult to detonate (thus less knock and used for high compression engines).

Premium fuel is where you find those additives that make the engine burn cleaner. Ex: Shell V-Power. Higher octane AND has additives....

Hilux · 05-12-08, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

Older and less sophisticated.......the 1FZFE has one more knock sensor than I do, and OBDII.

Not all?

IIRC 93, 94 have OBDI

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

Premium fuel is where you find those additives that make the engine burn cleaner. Ex: Shell V-Power. Higher octane AND has additives....

Read my lips, Mar-ket-ing.

Yeah I'm sure, seriously, their is something that differentiates the two, but otherwise I'm not believing all the hype. Hype is whats selling gas to those who don't need it

Like here for instance: http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...preme-gas.html

alkaline747trio · 05-12-08, 09:35 AM

You're right, not all are OBD2...but they do have the extra knock sensor.

And I agree...that's mostly hype....but premium is where you find the additives, and that's what my point was.

Atoyot1031 · 05-12-08, 10:25 AM

I've always ran the low grade, and at altitude it's 85. However, with the SC I do have to run premium. A trade I'm willing to make to be blown.

Brian894X4 · 05-12-08, 01:44 PM

Based on the 1993 article about the "new" 1FZ's engine management system and my limited knowledge of octane and engines, this appears to be what's going on....correct me if I'm wrong....

Even though 9 to 1 compression seems low by today's standards, it's really not that low and most engines are only able to run on the standard octane gas, because the timing is retarded to prevent pinging and other issues, which is where power is lost.

The 1FZ with its duel knock sensors and new engine management system can run the higher octane fuel with the engine timing advanced and providing more power and possibly smoother operation, while the duel knock sensors prevent damage by sensor potential problems from all 6 cylinders. Since the engine can run more advanced, there is more power.

It's not about more energy or less energy in the different octane fuels giving more power, it's about whether or not the engine can run at peak effeciency and more advanced timing without risking damage.

Also, another thing to consider. Small piston aircraft gas engines use 100 or 130 octane fuel, yet have fairly low 6 or 7 to 1 compression ratios on many models.

By the way, my 22RE pings like a mad monkey on low octane fuel. But part of the problem, I'm sure, is carbon deposits on the pistons over the years, even though I've cleaned out the combustion chambers multiple times.

Hilux · 05-12-08, 01:50 PM

Just a rant but this is why the 3fe gets such bad power #'s, its hideously low compression ratio.

the last place the average complainer thinks to look at why its power is so low.....

And Brian, great post, and your 22RE problems also make me question your fuel quality in Oregon.

and cant you make wx3.brian894x4.com a link? You know, fer lazy people?

FirstToy · 05-12-08, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

Premium fuel is where you find those additives that make the engine burn cleaner. Ex: Shell V-Power. Higher octane AND has additives....

Shell's Regular, Plus and Shell V-Power® premium-grade gasolines all meet the “TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline” standard.
Shell Regular and Plus gasolines, which meet the “TOP TIER” standard, also contain more than two times the amount of cleaning agents required by the EPA.

Cheveron has Techron in all grades of fuel.

People can argue the benefits of premium in a vehicle that requires regular but even the gas companies white papers don't support that idea.
It's something that allows them to make more money though.

05-10-08, 05:39 PM	#1
Harpenden fjz80 IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: May 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 35	Regular or Supreme Gas? Hey, I just got a 95 fjz 80 and just wanted to know what the verdict was on regular or supreme gas? Thanks Victor

05-10-08, 05:46 PM	#2
lowbanks IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 50	Just use regular unless you have a knocking (pinging) problem that can't be cured. On a well maintained, well tuned engine there is no advantage to a higher octane gas (huge advantage to the oil companies). __________________ 1995 FZJ80 Red/Tan leather 163,000 2nd owner, 285 BFG AT's, spare tire mod, CDL, Pin7 mod, OEM cupholder.

05-10-08, 06:05 PM	#3
campoj2 IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The Land of Frank Rizzo TLCA# Unknown Posts: 608	The horse was beat dead a long time ago on this one. Lowbanks is dead nuts on with his post, the engine was built to eat shi* gas from 3rd world countries. __________________ 1994 Green FZJ80 Locked - But not currently Locking EZ Pass Son of Moose http://www.carrfuneralhome.net/?p=146

05-11-08, 12:56 AM	#5
alkaline747trio Young and Dumb apparently Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Blacksburg VA or Albemarle NC Posts: 3,703	Premium, and advance your timing to take advantage of it. Usually burns a little cleaner too... __________________ '92 - 3FE POWER'D! -- Slee 6"/OME 863J, Pro-Comp 14" ES3000/N74L, Gen. 2 Slee Front Control Arms, T-G Sliders, Ext. Diff. Breathers, Slee SS Brake Lines, 5.29s, Aussie Locker'd rear, 35" TrXus STS Street/38.5x11 Boggers Trail, 180k. '85 Honda Accord - 55MPG!!! -- No air filter, Custom Burple (blue and purple) Paint. Upstate Cruisers

05-11-08, 03:45 AM	#6
Brian894X4 IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Oregon Posts: 602	This is probably new information and will probably surprise a lot of people, but I have in my hands a fairly detailed article written in 1993 by a British Mag about the new 1FZ at the time, that specificly says that Toyota claims the new duel knock sensors and engine management system will allow the engine to make more power when using higher octane fuel. I have no idea if this truly accurate or even possible. All I can do is report what the article says. Of course, I always use regular and with these prices see no reason not to keep doing that. Besides, the power increase, if true, is probably a bit minimal. __________________ 1995 FZJ80, modified for regional expeditions. Click here for more... My main website: In Search of History Expeditions Foreign Toyota 4x4s Military Toyota 4x4s

05-11-08, 07:09 AM	#7
Blue Phoenix IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Colorado Springs, CO TLCA# 18336 Posts: 165	I think I am going to have to get serious about monitoring my gas mileage. I have long wondered what the difference in mileage would be from a tank of premium and regular in this vehicle. As stated above, it was designed to run on extremely low octane gas if need be, but Im also not sure if the difference would be enough to justify paying 20 cents or more a gallon for the sweet stuff. The next couple of fillups will tell. In my thinking though, I at least feel like running high octane fuel will reduce engine deposits over time and save me a little money from having to do more maintenance because of it. Someone please flame me if I sound like an idiot! __________________ 1997 LX 450, OEM Lockers 2003 VeeDub Jetta 1.8T (The Wifeys) A_Soldiers_Diary

05-11-08, 02:03 PM	#8
FirstToy tlcwagons.org Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,292	That's good to know Brian- it's just like all new Toyota suv's I accept the knock retard sensors will allow better use of premium but I have to say, "so what?" A tad more power on the 80 is like a tad more fat on a 500lb man's neck... no one's going to notice and it doesn't make any differnce if you do. Blue Phoenix, premium isn't any "cleaner" than regular. It doesn't clean the engine any more than regular. That is a function of additives. Higher octane makes the fuel more difficult to detonate (thus less knock and used for high compression engines). __________________ TLCA#14645 BRC#41798 I love cachapas! my wip I drink your milkshake!

05-11-08, 02:35 PM	#9
gnx7 IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 487	If you plan to have the computer "relearn" and adjust for better fuel quality.... make sure you remove both battery connections for a few minutes AFTER you have put a full tank of 91+ octane in it. Then the computer will relearn and create settings for the better octane in tank. The Supra 2JZ-GTE is like this where you can put in 100 octane unleaded, remove the battery connections for a few minutes, then reconnect and it allows more boost/timing etc. How much more power our 4.5i will make with better octane.... and if you will be able to feel it in a 6000lb truck..... who knows?!?!?! __________________ '97 LX450 triple lock'd, J's, 285s, MTsliders,4x4Labs bumper, BBGT35R turbo kit '84 FJ60 OME 2" lift, 33's "Mr. Hanky" NEW PROJECT road race RX-7/LS7/T56 575rwhp 10.5@140mph goal '93 RX-7/LS1/T56 440rwhp/2800lbs 1.13gs 11.41@127.4mph SOLD '87 RX-7/Buick GN power - 11.6@115mph R.I.P.

05-11-08, 10:48 PM	#10
fjfar80 IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Hong Kong SAR Posts: 228	I will add my $.02 on this one. Since purchasing my truck in 2006 I have always used "premium" fuel or 92+ octane. I have noticed that it seems to run extremely smooth and the one time I used "regular" or 89 octane (due to no other fuel being available) I noticed a difference. The engine seemed a bit rougher and did not seem as smooth when accelerating. Now, the way I look at it the extra $4.00 is worth it when you talk about $.20 more per gallon and 20 gallons going into your tank. Anyway, I have no data to support my observations but; I make sure only the best goes into the truck (oil, fluids, etc.) so, higher octane fuel can't be a bad thing. __________________ 1997 FZJ80 - Flareless, Lined, PM'd to the Gills, BFG ATs, Alpine, and XM but, just starting (it's sitting in CONUS...a bit lonely..awaiting customization) 1997 BMW 528i - AC Schnitzer'd out (right-hand drive) 1988 E28 M5 - Currently being restored in the US "It is not the critic that counts" TR - 1910 http://faragesgarage.blogspot.com

05-12-08, 04:06 AM	#11
lowbanks IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 50	Even though I wear a size 9 shoe, I notice that when I put on a size 13, I run much faster. I've googled this to death and can't find 1 article to support using higher octane on a well maintained engine if all that's called for is 87 octane. The cost savings over years (and gallons) of gas purchases would buy you a new engine if you stick to regular. __________________ 1995 FZJ80 Red/Tan leather 163,000 2nd owner, 285 BFG AT's, spare tire mod, CDL, Pin7 mod, OEM cupholder.

05-12-08, 04:09 AM	#12
Pogue IH8MUD Junior Join Date: May 2007 Location: tx Posts: 89	mine run great on crap __________________ short, bald, happy with it

05-12-08, 06:48 AM	#13
campoj2 IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The Land of Frank Rizzo TLCA# Unknown Posts: 608	What is the compression ratio of the 1FZ engine? __________________ 1994 Green FZJ80 Locked - But not currently Locking EZ Pass Son of Moose http://www.carrfuneralhome.net/?p=146

05-12-08, 09:35 AM	#20
alkaline747trio Young and Dumb apparently Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Blacksburg VA or Albemarle NC Posts: 3,703	You're right, not all are OBD2...but they do have the extra knock sensor. And I agree...that's mostly hype....but premium is where you find the additives, and that's what my point was. __________________ '92 - 3FE POWER'D! -- Slee 6"/OME 863J, Pro-Comp 14" ES3000/N74L, Gen. 2 Slee Front Control Arms, T-G Sliders, Ext. Diff. Breathers, Slee SS Brake Lines, 5.29s, Aussie Locker'd rear, 35" TrXus STS Street/38.5x11 Boggers Trail, 180k. '85 Honda Accord - 55MPG!!! -- No air filter, Custom Burple (blue and purple) Paint. Upstate Cruisers

05-12-08, 10:25 AM	#21
Atoyot1031 IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Aspen, CO TLCA# 18402 Posts: 943	I've always ran the low grade, and at altitude it's 85. However, with the SC I do have to run premium. A trade I'm willing to make to be blown. __________________ "Macadamia nuts in mixed nuts?!? Now *that's* a high class nut mix..." -Anonymous quote heard during a CM08 lunch break in the worm hole on Kane Creek

05-12-08, 01:44 PM	#22
Brian894X4 IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Oregon Posts: 602	Based on the 1993 article about the "new" 1FZ's engine management system and my limited knowledge of octane and engines, this appears to be what's going on....correct me if I'm wrong.... Even though 9 to 1 compression seems low by today's standards, it's really not that low and most engines are only able to run on the standard octane gas, because the timing is retarded to prevent pinging and other issues, which is where power is lost. The 1FZ with its duel knock sensors and new engine management system can run the higher octane fuel with the engine timing advanced and providing more power and possibly smoother operation, while the duel knock sensors prevent damage by sensor potential problems from all 6 cylinders. Since the engine can run more advanced, there is more power. It's not about more energy or less energy in the different octane fuels giving more power, it's about whether or not the engine can run at peak effeciency and more advanced timing without risking damage. Also, another thing to consider. Small piston aircraft gas engines use 100 or 130 octane fuel, yet have fairly low 6 or 7 to 1 compression ratios on many models. By the way, my 22RE pings like a mad monkey on low octane fuel. But part of the problem, I'm sure, is carbon deposits on the pistons over the years, even though I've cleaned out the combustion chambers multiple times. __________________ 1995 FZJ80, modified for regional expeditions. Click here for more... My main website: In Search of History Expeditions Foreign Toyota 4x4s Military Toyota 4x4s Last edited by Brian894X4; 05-12-08 at 04:57 PM.

05-12-08, 01:50 PM	#23
Hilux IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Naked at the other end of this... TLCA# 9h9-69 Posts: 577	Just a rant but this is why the 3fe gets such bad power #'s, its hideously low compression ratio. the last place the average complainer thinks to look at why its power is so low..... And Brian, great post, and your 22RE problems also make me question your fuel quality in Oregon. and cant you make wx3.brian894x4.com a link? You know, fer lazy people? __________________ I'm too old school, I still hold a phone to my ear... We're just one krappy Diesel away from another 30 years of gas ...the "6.2 Redo" As soon as I figure out how to make a still, I'm going to start making "Bio Gasoline" lets see, corn, sugar...copper pipe...