Buying experience dilema

[cutter]

rtarh20,

The body shop repair is the issue. I've been to 3 different body shops (and 1 mechanic) just to repair the door hinge and see if they can do anything about aligning the body panel. They won't touch it because it would involve going over someone elses work. Everyone points to the extent of damage that is beyond cosmetic...which I could live with for a while if need be. All 3 body shops have been consistent that repairing it right would not be worthwhile and I don't think i bought it cheap enough to sink that kind of cash. It's something someone would either just have to live with or be proficient enough to do themselves and I'm not a body man. Mechanically I think it's OK but as I go along I"m seeing a few things that may be of concer (eg the ditributor cap was cracked and held together with a cable tie...what cheap ass does that!). The engine isn't rough and the transmission shifts smooth so that's priobably OK.

[vkfzj80]

Sounds like you are liking this cruiser but not sure about the integrety of the body to make it safe for your family. I suggest that you take your LC to one of the body shops again and ask them to put it on a frame rack and take measurements to figure out how far off it really is. Yes it may cost you a $$$ but you'll know exactly what the issues are like bent or twisted frame, caved in pillar and so forth. Something to consider...

[AppleTech]

Originally Posted by cutter

I don't really fault him for not knowing the complete accident history but it's obvious the damage sustained in the accident is more than cosmetic and consequently that should have been factored into the price.

Don't give him too much (ANY) credit - he was told by a body repair professional that the vehicle had MAJOR damage and was not safely repaired - this guy ripped you off and now both of you know it. With mxvet354's word you are golden here.

I would advise calling the guy back and telling him you are in on his scheme... you have someone willing to testify that HE KNEW the vehicle had major damage which he wrongfully kept from you.

Once you get this all settled and taken care of (I'm sure you will - the law should DEFINITELY be on your side at this point), you have learned 2 things to do when searching for your next 80:

1. Always get a carfax
2. Pay mxvet354 to drive with you to look at your next truck!

Sorry this had to happen to you man... it really sucks!

-Phil

[cutter]

Appletech....your 2 points are 100% right

I'll have to seriously consider flying mxvet354 to inspect my next LC....what's your consultant fees like?

I appreciate everyones input and it's great having a support network like this. I hope I can return the favor sometime. I'm going to give the guy a call today and see if he'll try and do the right thing with respect to the knowledge i now have.

I'll let everyone know how it goes

[reffug]

very sad story indeed.

hope it all works out for you in the end.

and that said PO 'douche' gets his.

[cutter]

vkfzj80,

[Sounds like you are liking this cruiser but not sure about the integrety of the body to make it safe for your family. I suggest that you take your LC to one of the body shops again and ask them to put it on a frame rack and take measurements to figure out how far off it really is. Yes it may cost you a $$$ but you'll know exactly what the issues are like bent or twisted frame, caved in pillar and so forth. Something to consider...]

I wouldn't say I am really liking this cruiser. In fact on the way home I had already decided that it was not going to be the one I kept for a long time. And mxvet354 comments on repairing frame damage are exactly why I hesitate doing anything more with it. I've already had a few mechanical problems (not major) but they are (in my opinion) associated with the accident. I think more things will develop as time goes on. The last body shop I went to specializes in fixing frame damage and reconstructing cars. Their opinion was it's just not worth fixing and they thought it was really low that the PO was trying to pawn this off to someone.

[Koffer]

Sounds like it had or has firewall damage . Thats a "total" by most insurance companies around no matter how new or old .
You could always part it out but I dont think you'll break close to even though

Sorry about your truck

good luck finding the next

[AppleTech]

I had a great idea this morning that I will follow up with tonight... I'm going to create a "Cruisers to Avoid" Registry in the 80's forum (and other forums too if the admins go for it) that will be stickied. Then, when someone goes to look at a truck in bad condition, they can list up here the VIN, name of the seller, selling location, and why they wouldn't buy it. That way, anyone looking for a new truck can do a search for the VIN or seller name on MUD first and be forewarned. Since not all users on here have the same technical merit as others, we need to band together as a community and draw from each other's experience, even from the point of purchase. This will help protect our community members from going through the horrible experience you went through.

I'll iron out all the details tonight and post it up. Any moderators on this thread I can PM when I set it up so they can sticky?

-Phil

[mxvet354]

AT - That is a wonderful idea, it won't be perfect but at least if it is listed here people know what they are going to look at. To someone a blown engine/HG may not be a big deal but it would be for me. On the other hand a few dents or fading clear coat wouldn't scare me a bit. I think this would be a good place to start.

If it helps one person, it would definately be worth it. As I look back now in my first post on MUD, instead of mentioning my horrible trip down there I should have provided names and details in order to try and help someone else.

Curt

[e9999]

cutter, don't be wishywashy... You sound like a nice decent guy who doesn't like confrontation. Good for you. But here, you gotta lay down the law on this guy. You got screwed royally by a liar who was told in no uncertain terms there were significant problems. You got very lucky to hear from mx. So run with it, send the guy a registered letter first thing, perhaps from an attorney ($100 - will put the fear of god in him) get your money back and get a good cruiser...
Good luck to ya!

[ToddsFJ60]

As a newbie in the 80 world, and the Cruiser World, I would just like to say that the folks that post on here are good people! I go on a few other forums once in a while and there seem to be a lot of people that get off on making others look stupid online.
The edgy comments I have read on this board are 99% followed with humor, or a don't feel bad I did the same thing myself, and then followed by the beloved. I have learned so much from the posters here and I thank you all for the support. Incidents like this proves there may be a few good people left out there!

Todd

[cruiserdood]

IMHO

You may be able to check the title history and get information from the previous owners on the damages. I contacted the original owners when I purchased my 93. It was the best thing I ever did and gave me peace of mind, as it looked like mine had some damage too.

[EricG]

Originally Posted by AppleTech

I had a great idea this morning that I will follow up with tonight... I'm going to create a "Cruisers to Avoid" Registry in the 80's forum (and other forums too if the admins go for it) that will be stickied. Then, when someone goes to look at a truck in bad condition, they can list up here the VIN, name of the seller, selling location, and why they wouldn't buy it. That way, anyone looking for a new truck can do a search for the VIN or seller name on MUD first and be forewarned. Since not all users on here have the same technical merit as others, we need to band together as a community and draw from each other's experience, even from the point of purchase. This will help protect our community members from going through the horrible experience you went through.

I'll iron out all the details tonight and post it up. Any moderators on this thread I can PM when I set it up so they can sticky?

-Phil

Sounds like a great idea - but with potential for abuse. Maybe at least start with a less confrontational title then "Cruisers To Avoid". Maybe something like "For Sale Cruiser Checkouts". After all, as someone suggested, everybodies criteria are different.

And to the OP - sorry abotu the raw deal you got. Buying used vehicles is always something of a crapshoot, and the odds get worse the older they get. And traveling to look at a truck always that much extra time pressure and such. I just thank my stars I didn't get shafted buying mine on ebay 1600 miles away!

[reffug]

Originally Posted by AppleTech

I'll iron out all the details tonight and post it up. Any moderators on this thread I can PM when I set it up so they can sticky?

-Phil

Don't go ironing anything out just yet.

The matter is under consideration/discussion by the powers that be.

[cutter]

Well....I just got off the phone with him and busted him mxvet354's visit. Right before I busted him he reiterated that I was the first person to come see it. After I busted him he just said that someone came to look at it that was just breezing through town, stayed about 30 minutes and said they'd get back to him but never followed up. I told him mxvet354 specifically pointed out the damage to him and he called him a liar. Then he turned around and called me a liar. I said I had 3 wittnesses not including his son that could point to things he's lied about and that was considered fraud. After hanging up on me once he said I bought it "as is" and his daughter-in-law's father was a hot shot attorney and knew all the judges in the county and he'd see me in court. And then he'd counter sue me.

So I'll see a lawyer, send a certified letter and see where that goes.

[cutter]

cruiserdood,

how did you get that information? I tried contacting the dealership he bought through, which he claims was just handling the transaction (someone happened to be trading it in when he went there) and they wouldn't tell me anything.

[sundaypunch]

The seller is obviously not going to work with you. Your decision now is whether to take legal action or move on and eat the loss. I have seen a lot of these threads but never one where the person followed through with legal action. I would love to see someone nail a seller like this.

[blarsen]

That really sucks that the PO acted the way he did, sounds like he got caught in a lie and resorted to threats.. one of my favorite saying is: "Profanity is the attempt of a feeble mind to express it's self" Well the same goes for the threat of being sued by a very guilty person trying to cover his butt..
talk to a lawyer, find out what your options are and then have a heart to heart with your wife and see how much grief and anger you are willing to add to your life. the process of suing and going to court may in the end not be worth it. Sometimes the hate, anger and thoughts of revenge that it builds in you is more destructive than the loss of money.. In the end this very dishonest person will get what coming to him, they ALWAYS do!!! Carma
later
Bret

[cutter]

Well I talked with a lawyer in Forsyth, Ga (really nice guy by the way). He listened to my story and thought I would have a reasonable chance. He suggested sending a certified letter explaining the situtation, offering a solution and then giving a 2-3week timframe for a response. If he doesn't respond then the next level he recommended is taking him to Magistrate Court, which is the equivalent to small claims court. Hope to craft a letter that would be amicable to both parties

[e9999]

you do realize that if the guy does a cursory web search as in with his name, he knows all about your strategy...? Plus may well have grounds for a libel suit... I would erase this ASAP

[blarsen]

Boy will he get his storm, and odds are that he lives in one everyday just waiting for the big flood to wash him away...
later

[Atticus]

Originally Posted by e9999

you do realize that if the guy does a cursory web search as in with his name, he knows all about your strategy...? Plus may well have grounds for a libel suit... I would erase this ASAP

Truth is a defense to libel.

However, e is right: if you're going to pursue legal action, I would advise you to close this thread.

[cutter]

done

[e9999]

I guess not....

[lacruiser]

I'm a car dealer, been one for 30 years. I'm an honest seller, and I hate to read these kinds of threads.

Here's what I would do:

Contact the GA DMV and follow whatever procedures they require in order to get a full and complete history (INCLUDING OWNERS NAMES AND ADDRESSES), and contact the previous owners and ask them what they told your seller. I'll bet they disclosed the extent of the damage in a little more forceful terms than he did with you.

Second: Try and find out as much info about your seller as you can. What does he do for a living (don't believe a word he told you). He sounds like a professional "curbstoner" to me (an illegal and unlicensed dealer). He may very well be working with a dealer, he may be a licensed dealer himself. If he's a dealer, there are dealer licensing authorities that will prosecute him for this. I know that GA has some pretty stiff consumer protection laws, but I'm in CA, so I'm not familiar with their specifics.

You could hire a PI to do this, but perhaps there's a local (to him) Mud board member that wouldn't mind knocking on a few of his neighbors' doors and asking about him. Believe me, if he's selling cars, they'll know!

He may be a dealer, maybe not. Licensed or unlicensed. However, curbstoning is very common in all states, and it's a big problem. It's illegal in all states.

If you find the car was traded into a dealership, contact that dealership and ask them to provide you whatever info they may have on the vehicle. Each dealership is different, some may be helpful, others not. Maybe your attorney will get the info.

If you find the car was sold through a dealer-only auction, it's highly likely the car was announced as "frame damaged" at that sale. If he IS a dealer, that's solid evidence he knew.

Contact the GA DMV, get ahold of the arm of that bureau that does dealer investigations. There is such a division, it may be called something different. You want the "DMV cops" that investigate dealers and vehicle fraud.

Ask them to run the VIN, and depending upon the investigator you get on the phone, he may reveal a wealth of information to you. I've had this happen with various personnel at different state DMV's, and some of them are very helpful.

You also should mention the sellers name to the investigator. If this guy has done this before, they may have records of previous actions against him. It's certainly worth asking for.

Do all of these things, even if you hire an attorney. Not all attorneys are created equal, some may think of these things, others may not. You may find a bunch of surprising info about your seller. I'd bet a rusty FJ60 that this is not the first fraud this guy's been involved in. Anything you find out will aid your attorney in negotiations/lawsuits.

Also, what kind of paperwork did you get? I assume you got a title, but was it in his name? At that address? Was the title recently issued (evidence he recently bought the truck)?

Also, you can go online to the County of Monroe GA Tax assessors office and type in his address, get the owners name and contact them to see what he does for a living.

Monroe County Tax Assessor's Office



Good luck, and please do keep us informed.

Dana

[Fly Rod]

I would also recommend keeping all your plans unnder wraps. But I am following this thread with interest.

When I was young I bought a BMW with a cashiers check. I went directly to a station and checked the oil. I added 1 1/2 quarts and kept the receipt. Then drove it strait to my mechanic. He told me to return it right away, blown motor, sawdust in tranny, ect. I called the seller and said I was returning it. He laughed and said "if there is any damage you did it, try to prove otherwise." I drove the car to his house and left the keys on his door step. I called the bank manager and explained the situation. He said no problem, he cancelled the cashiers check for $25. I never heard from the seller again. That is also the last car I bought before my mechanic checked it out.

Good luck!

[EricG]

Originally Posted by lacruiser

I'm a car dealer, been one for 30 years. I'm an honest seller, and I hate to read these kinds of threads.

Here's what I would do:

Contact the GA DMV and follow whatever procedures they require in order to get a full and complete history (INCLUDING OWNERS NAMES AND ADDRESSES), and contact the previous owners and ask them what they told your seller. I'll bet they disclosed the extent of the damage in a little more forceful terms than he did with you.

Second: Try and find out as much info about your seller as you can. What does he do for a living (don't believe a word he told you). He sounds like a professional "curbstoner" to me (an illegal and unlicensed dealer). He may very well be working with a dealer, he may be a licensed dealer himself. If he's a dealer, there are dealer licensing authorities that will prosecute him for this. I know that GA has some pretty stiff consumer protection laws, but I'm in CA, so I'm not familiar with their specifics.

You could hire a PI to do this, but perhaps there's a local (to him) Mud board member that wouldn't mind knocking on a few of his neighbors' doors and asking about him. Believe me, if he's selling cars, they'll know!

He may be a dealer, maybe not. Licensed or unlicensed. However, curbstoning is very common in all states, and it's a big problem. It's illegal in all states.

If you find the car was traded into a dealership, contact that dealership and ask them to provide you whatever info they may have on the vehicle. Each dealership is different, some may be helpful, others not. Maybe your attorney will get the info.

If you find the car was sold through a dealer-only auction, it's highly likely the car was announced as "frame damaged" at that sale. If he IS a dealer, that's solid evidence he knew.

Contact the GA DMV, get ahold of the arm of that bureau that does dealer investigations. There is such a division, it may be called something different. You want the "DMV cops" that investigate dealers and vehicle fraud.

Ask them to run the VIN, and depending upon the investigator you get on the phone, he may reveal a wealth of information to you. I've had this happen with various personnel at different state DMV's, and some of them are very helpful.

You also should mention the sellers name to the investigator.