Official 80 Series Factory Snorkel Group-Buy Thread

[theferg]

Prossett, that's good info--thanks! A trading company like you suggest might be a good option--as long as their charges are minimal. Remember, the idea here is keeping it on the cheap. We've already got trusted people that can get these for us for ~100 bucks or so more than what we're attempting here...

Prossett, I don't want to speak for Fouad, but I know since the beginning he hasn't really wanted to be the one to handle the money. I'm sure he and all of us signed up for the group buy would really appreciate anything you could do to assist us here. Finding a trading company that could handle this would be awesome! (I'm tempted to *become* a trading company myself so we could get this going... LOL)

Edit: Las Vegas/Dubai roundtrip ~$1500 USD. Divide by 70 snorkel sets. equals $21.43 each... Now if only there were some cheap accommodations that could be arranged (and a week long desert safari trip of course).... Then again, should be much cheaper for a right-coaster to make the trip...

Really though, a trading company sounds like a great idea.

-Ferg-

[fghanem]

Originally Posted by prossett

Coming in a bit late into the discussion - thanks theferg for PM. I've lived in the UAE 9 years now and haven't seen more than 20 snorkels... guess it's you guys buying them all! LOL

Mutazs, recognize your username, buddy it's PR here.

Fouad, would you be so kind to let me know the source of these snorkels - it's not Al Futtaim, so you're getting them from where exactly? Please send me the phone number and the guy's name so I can check up with them.

I agree the money issue's going to be hard, but not because of mistrusting Fouad, simply because Paypal is not yet set up to work over here. That means everyone sending either bank transfers or money orders or Western Union individually to an individual... not good, guys.

I also agree mailing by Emirates Post is the way to go - they go by weight, so it won't be too much. I get stuff from the US by US Post when it's not too heavy.

What do you guys want a snorkel for anyways? The air intake is great as it is!

If I can make a suggestion here - realistically nobody's going to be picking up, transporting, packing and shipping these snorkels for 50-60 guys, especially not Fouad who's in Lebanon anyways. I suggest that if the stock is available we hire the services of a trading company, pay an extra 10-15 bucks for handling, and get them to purchase, transport, pack and ship.

They may also already be set up to handle payments so at least it's a company and not an individual receiving payments, and there can be a bit more recourse if things don't work out.

So, if mudders don't mind, I can offer to check on the stock, pending Fouad's agreement; and try find a company to act as intermediary - basically they buy the snorkels, add their cut (we'll have to negotiate how much) and then they do all the work and receive payments from customers in the USA.

I would suggest a company where someone well known in the 4x4 community out here works, perhaps a Dubai4x4 member (established 4x4 club) or other person who is both an offroader like us and who also has a reputation so he will be less likely to rip anyone off.

Fouad, great job,man! Respekt! Bet you didn't expect 60 orders, eh??? You handled yourself well earlier in the thread, buddy - if you know of any company in Dubai who can fulfil this intermediary role, then let's hear who it is and get working on it!

Hi Prossett,

There is no need for a trading company, the company itself (Papyrus Auto parts) will be more than happy to take care of the order with no further costs except shipping (which they shipped for me to lebanon via Emirates post), they r selling it at their list price, so once we hear of availability, individually, or in batches ppl can order, Sundar is cool people, i am not aware if Ferg called him (them) or not as of yet.

Again Prossett, as you put it, i thought it was gona be like 8 orders or so, and i wasn't gona be paypaled or paid in another method (as i mentioned earlier i am in Lebanon, and i can't handle the responsibility from here, my role is and remain if need be a facilitator until completion), the money needs to be wired to the company Papyrus auto parts in Dubai, and you don't need my agreement to contact them just tell him ur contacting them in regards to the same inquiry Fouad Ghanem so as they don't end uplocating 140 or so sets.

Call them or better yet visit them if ur passing to Dubai;

Papyrus auto parts.
Yousuf baker Road
Opposite City King Hotel
Deira Dubai
U.A.E
Ph : 00971-4-2294494 (ask for Sundar)

As i am leaving Lebanon soon, and wont be back until the 15th or so of next month. Part numbers et al for the snorkel set are already with Sundar, he's the export manager iirc.

Additionally, you can see Mutaz's contact in Dubai as well, AL-Hamadi, they might have the sets, but i have no idea how to contact them nor have i dealt with them, for Papyrus i can say i dealt with them prior to the snorkels, and they fulfilled the order 100%.

If there is anything else you need do let me know.

Fouad

[prossett]

OK, spoke to Mr Sundar - nice guy - and I'll be negotiating with him over the next couple of days.

What I'm looking for (and you guys help me out here):

1. That he bring in stock - he says he has 20 on hand, we want 80.

2. That he post them for us - Emirates Post, to each of our (your) individual addresses.

3. That he accept individual payment from US banks (so that neither I or anyone else has to touch money)

4. That he show us photos of exactly what he's selling so we (you) can see if it's what you want and get no surprises.

5. That we (you) have some sort of recourse if things go wrong, like maybe his company license number with Dubai Municipality.

6. That he set up some sort of order form that we (you) can use.

What else?

The guy sounded like he was on the ball, Indian businessman from Madras, good English, quick thinker, obviously alert and eager to do business.

You know what? I think I'm going to get one for Elsie, too!!!

Please add your comments quick, so I can put forward our requests as I start the negotiation process.

Mutazs has kindly given me another source, also in Dubai, so I'll see if Mr Sundar can serve as Mud central supplier for stock from other suppliers too... and then shall we go for hood ornaments???

BTW, ground rule, neither I nor Fouad nor anyone else will profit from this - it's community service. The business man will set his price and the market shall determine if it's enough of a good deal.

Fouad, you rock, man, and these snorkels should be known as "Fouad Snorkels" from now on!

[Ruadhrigh]

Originally Posted by prossett

Fouad, you rock, man, and these snorkels should be known as "Fouad Snorkels" from now on!

X2

thanks for your input Prossett, maybe we can call them "Prosett-Fouad Snorkels" has a better ring than OEM.

and I think you are dead on with our purchase requirements. Although if it ends up being cheaper maybe mass shipping to a central point? But that adds the need for further distribution.

[theferg]

Originally Posted by prossett

OK, spoke to Mr Sundar - nice guy - and I'll be negotiating with him over the next couple of days.

What I'm looking for (and you guys help me out here):

Sounds cool. I've been attempting to email him over the past week and haven't heard anything back...

1. That he bring in stock - he says he has 20 on hand, we want 80.

Sounds good. Obviously if he can't get 80, we'll take as many sets as we can get.

2. That he post them for us - Emirates Post, to each of our (your) individual addresses.

This would obviously be most ideal as long as shipping cost isn't crazy.

3. That he accept individual payment from US banks (so that neither I or anyone else has to touch money)

I don't care to make this demand myself, it would be better perhaps, but I'm fine with western union like Fouad did.

4. That he show us photos of exactly what he's selling so we (you) can see if it's what you want and get no surprises.

I don't need pictures. If Fouad got his all good, then I trust I'll be good too.

5. That we (you) have some sort of recourse if things go wrong, like maybe his company license number with Dubai Municipality.

Sounds like a good thing...

6. That he set up some sort of order form that we (you) can use.

Would be great, but doesn't seem like something that *must* be done for this to work out... I'm fine with email or phone call.

What else?

The guy sounded like he was on the ball, Indian businessman from Madras, good English, quick thinker, obviously alert and eager to do business.

You know what? I think I'm going to get one for Elsie, too!!!

Please add your comments quick, so I can put forward our requests as I start the negotiation process.

Mutazs has kindly given me another source, also in Dubai, so I'll see if Mr Sundar can serve as Mud central supplier for stock from other suppliers too... and then shall we go for hood ornaments???

BTW, ground rule, neither I nor Fouad nor anyone else will profit from this - it's community service. The business man will set his price and the market shall determine if it's enough of a good deal.

Fouad, you rock, man, and these snorkels should be known as "Fouad Snorkels" from now on!

Thanks for this Prossett! I was indeed going to attempt getting a hood ornament (not sure if I am really going to want it applied to my rig, but I'd still like to have one to decide for myself if I like it on or not...)

-Ferg-

[mot]

WOW!

When this deal is complete it will be known as the greatest group-buy on Mud, ever!

It's really nice to see this deal finally taking shape and picking up steam!

[Doc]

This is just me thinking out loud- I hope Mr. sundar isn't going to order 80 sets and then wait for us to pay him. Invariably in every group buy there is a certain attrition rate. I really doubt there will be 80 buyers when it comes time to lay the $$ on the table. 40? Sure, 60? Maybe.

I just don't want him to be left holding merchandise that was 'spoken' for if / when people back out.

[theferg]

Originally Posted by Doc

This is just me thinking out loud- I hope Mr. sundar isn't going to order 80 sets and then wait for us to pay him. Invariably in every group buy there is a certain attrition rate. I really doubt there will be 80 buyers when it comes time to lay the $$ on the table. 40? Sure, 60? Maybe.

I just don't want him to be left holding merchandise that was 'spoken' for if / when people back out.

Ah yes! Glad you brought this up again. I'd say those numbers are pretty much spot-on Doc.

-Ferg-

[sseaman]

There maybe others such as myself interested, but have held off to see where this was going.

[Ruadhrigh]

So we are still waiting for confirmation of the available quantity. It may not be a bad idea to secure an exact amount, and make the orders in waves. Say 20 at a time.


Before we make too many plans the availability needs to be determined.



Damn the anticipation!

[prossett]

Yeah good point - as I just wrote theferg by PM:

One thing he certainly won't want to do is go ahead and buy a bunch of snorkels before receiving any money - since the orders might not materialize and he'd end up looking the fool.

So what I suggest we use for leverage is that we'll gradually put in orders according to his purchasing power, so he minimizes his risk of initial investment.

Say we want 80, we start with 5. He receives the money, we receive the goods - all's well. On with the next 10. Now he has the money he already received from the first 5 to buy 10... that way we minimize his risk, and also ours!

Anyways, I'll post everything as it goes on the site so all can see. I don't see why it wouldn't work.

The nice thing is that we get a lot of other goodies that you guys in the US don't, so maybe this Sundar guy can end up building a good reputation with Mudders - which is another leverage point when I start talking specifics with hm.

Many Indian businessmen here are excellent, so I'm starting with a positive attitude and let's see where he takes it.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Ruadhrigh

Before we make too many plans the availability needs to be determined.

Your right,

But, lets say Mr. sundar finds 35 complete sets. Ok, so we put out the word to the first 35 on the list to pay up. 20 sets get paid for right away, and the other 15 are 'out there'. How long do we give the other 15 to pay? A week? What if some of those 35 sets get sold to other people while we're waiting on the other 15 to pay? And what if 8-10 of those 15 people back out... now we have to notify the next 8-10 on the list and wait for them to pay.....

I am kind of a negative nancy in that way.

But, I guess if the snorks are being sent to individual addresses then we don't have too much of a problem. The first to pay will be the first to be shipped. You wait to pay, you take your chances- but at least the group isn't waiting on your payment for their snorks to be shipped.

[Ruadhrigh]

Originally Posted by prossett

The nice thing is that we get a lot of other goodies that you guys in the US don't, so maybe this Sundar guy can end up building a good reputation with Mudders - which is another leverage point when I start talking specifics with hm.

Wouldn't thatr be sweet! I can't even imagine all the OEM swag available to the overseas market!

Originally Posted by Doc

The first to pay will be the first to be shipped.

yes, I think that is the best way

[theferg]

Good points Doc. It's an issue I've been trying to figure out in my head ever since Fouad mentioned that it's going to be more like individuals making the purchases and getting them individually shipped. What's to stop people further down the list from just calling up Mr Sundar and making an order?--nothing really. Well, what *should* be stopping them is their integrity and the thought that if all 80 or more of us bombard Mr Sundar with phone calls at this point, he's gonna get pretty frustrated with dealing with us...and it could end up killing the deal for all of us.

And in my mind, a 24 hour notice should be enough for each "wave". Let's say we're doing 20 orders, 20 peeps get PMd, if they haven't responded within 24 hours, then they get left off. Ya, it would suck if only 5 respond and then we have to move down the list, but you could put a cut-off in where after 3 days or after there is 15 of the 20 (whichever comes sooner after the original 24 hour deadline), then the order is placed. Dunno. Seeing as we're not really dealing with a true group buy, it's hard to figure out these types of details.

It would be nice if most everyone could just sit back, hang-tight, and let this continue to run its course and let the details get worked out (such as perhaps an on-line order form). Perhaps the URL of said order form could be kept "secret" and then PMd to people on the list when it's their turn? I dunno.

I want to be fair to everyone and go through the list in order that we've gotten it...

-Ferg-

[prossett]

Ferg, to keep crowd control with who orders when and to make it fair to all, let's prepare an "order form" that Mr Sundar will accept as a bonafide order. You hold this order form and e-mail it to the first 5 guys ready.

Then let's all wait the 2-3 weeks it takes for these 5 orders to come in, let the guys post here saying yup, they are great! and then Ferg send out another 10 of these "official" forms to whoever's next in line.

No form, Mr Sundar no process order.

[fghanem]

Ok I am glad things are starting to look good, and it’s pure synergy in the making. Although I have been real busy lately, I was constantly messaging Sundar, too much so, that I think he got sick of me (lol), so I am glad someone (Prossett) will take care of the nagging. On a good note, my snorkel has arrived; I just need to go pick it up from Lebanese customs. will post some pics tommorow evening (i hope).

My personal take on things, is to individually order it, and then post results, once received. However, out of courtesy to those that are on the list (first come, first serve), it should be going via a cue (there will be no way to control it, only the goodwill and respect for others will be the guarantee), either individually or by the small group buy method, and wire the money via your bank.

I think for Sundar or another person to have a western union trip on an hourly basis would be tiring even to the most fanatic of them, because unlike a bank wire where u get a notice of money in acct, with WU you have to pick up the cash yourself.

Ferg, if you want to do it, then do it soon, or if others have no alternative but WU then batch your orders, one to 5 orders won’t spoil him, but to go and come to WU for 70-80 times, is a major PITA, this is my opinion think about it.

Besides, a bank wire is cheaper, and more secure than cash wiring, sometimes I wire large amounts and the cost is like $20-30 bucks, it does take longer but time isn’t an issue here 2-3 days tops, in my case I went western union, because I have to travel soon, and we had so many holidays Moslem and Christian for that matter, so time was of essence.

I just checked on shipping for 5 kilos, I don’t think it will be more, it was 275 Dirhams which equals like $74 US, so it’s not bad imho.
Here’s the link to the rate calculator, pick parcel and then pick international, then it will take u to where you will pretty much figure it out, FYI a kilo is 2.2 Lbs. and the set iirc is no more than 5 kilos.

:: Emirates Post :: The Official Postal Service of UAE

And Prossett, it was a cooperative effort, so as far as I am concerned it was ideas and actions from here and there and then it gained foot. Ferg was the engine behind the machine, imho.

Fouad

[fghanem]

i just read some of the latest posts, and if u need me to contact Sundar, i can make him allocate like 20 sets and then u guys individually wire money with details in ur email, i already ordered more than 1k of stuff from him, so the trust issue is there.

Ferg, me and you are on the same page when it comes to first come first serve, so it's all abot respect, if it wasnt for the group effort... if it was to each his own, it wouldn't have seen the light of day.

anyway let me know if you need further help.

[fghanem]

Ok the snorkel arrived, and plus some other parts, everything was there, not a single part missing or damaged, including the small screws.


Sundar is the Man.

[prossett]

Can you see how much was the postage cost to Lebanon, and then from that we can see what weight it was on the online postage calculator? Or just weigh the whole box... except I see it's all open already! LOL

Mr Sundar is checking on stock - so far he's having trouble finding complete sets. He said tomorrow he'll provide a quote.

He said shipping cost to Lebanon was AED 120 (USD 33), and the box weighed around 10kg, which by Emirates Post to the USA would be USD 135 by air, and USD 77 by SAL (sea).

[Doc]

I love those little red and white boxes!

[fghanem]

Originally Posted by prossett

Can you see how much was the postage cost to Lebanon, and then from that we can see what weight it was on the online postage calculator? Or just weigh the whole box... except I see it's all open already! LOL

Mr Sundar is checking on stock - so far he's having trouble finding complete sets. He said tomorrow he'll provide a quote.

He said shipping cost to Lebanon was AED 120 (USD 33), and the box weighed around 10kg, which by Emirates Post to the USA would be USD 135 by air, and USD 77 by SAL (sea).

Yes Sundar is right in regards, to my order, but i didn't just order the Snorkel Set, i ordered, tons of other parts(i.e. snorkel set, Air Filter, wipers, spark plugs, tools, tool bags, gaskets, lower air filter cap (the one that goes under the air filter), and other misc. parts.), the weight for the the snorkel will not be more than 5 kilos, and from that do the rate calculation, it came to about 275 Dirhams, which is about $75.

If it's just the Snorkel set then it's 5 kg, if u want to order other toy parts then it's weight dependent.

[theferg]

Awesome! Can't wait to be taking a pic of my snork set on my living room floor...

-Ferg-