[Photoman]

Originally Posted by sdnative

OK, after thinking about how exactly I want to upgrade the wiring, I have a question or two:

I am looking at the EWD189U, page 48, and it looks like the easiest way to upgrade the wiring is simply to lift the ring off of the B alternator terminal and wrap it up so to isolate it from shorting on something. Then run a larger wire directly from the battery to the B alternator connector through a fuse. This was suggested earlier by Brian894X4, but I dont think anyone caught the simplicity of it. From what I can tell, this is a legit solution, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Second, where can I source the parts circled in red:



I know I can probably get the blue sea stuff from west marine, but what about the battery terminals? I was just going to buy the whole harness from urban land cruisers, but I think I'll just build my own.

Thanks!

There are two white wires in that “B” terminal connector on the alternator. One charging big white wire goes to the battery positive and is protected by connecting through about a #14 fusible link wire in the AM1 plastic box. The other white wire at the alternator “B” terminal is about a #10 gauge wire and sends power to the under hood fuse box. Before it gets to the under hood fuse box it splits and supplies power to some circuits in the dash fuse panel. So in this stock configuration power is coming directly from the alternator on this #10 wire to supply these circuits.
If the wire is just removed from the alternator and a new heavy wire is run between the alternator and the battery positive, the under hood fuse box and the under dash fuse panel circuits are now being fed back through the #14 fusible link wire. Like this – power from alternator up big new wire through new fuse to battery positive – from battery positive back through old 14 gauge fusible link wire through old former big charging white wire then to old 10 gauge white wire to fuse panels. It will work, but all those circuits could have less power since they are being back fed through the smaller fusible link wire. To say it another way from faulty memory, the headlights, EFI, tail light relay, defog, FL heater, ECU B, and OBD will now all be fed through the 14 gauge fusible link. Hope this makes sense. Sorry I do not have that version EWD.

Wrangler NW among others has those items circled.

Hope this helps.


Bill

[NLXTACY]

I use Dave's Marine in Vegas.

[NLXTACY]

Wrangler is starting to cut out a large set of their inventory numbers in order to concentrate on their alternator/dual battery biz. Make sure to call because you wont be able to find it on the site any longer.

BTW Bill, I have YET to finish this

[concretejungle]

when i went to NAPA and asked for a 150 amp fuse and fuse block, the guy about crapped himself. He said that is a HUGE fuse. I had no idea how big it was until he brought it down from in the back. It is a huge fuse.

SDnative, that's exactly what i did. Upgraded that wire and just cut the other wire out completely.

I think i used a busman fuse. Here is the best pic i can take right now since it's dark outside. i'll try to do better tomorrow. Mine runs from the alternator to the fuse, fuse to battery.

[sdnative]

Originally Posted by Photoman

There are two white wires in that “B” terminal connector on the alternator. One charging big white wire goes to the battery positive and is protected by connecting through about a #14 fusible link wire in the AM1 plastic box. The other white wire at the alternator “B” terminal is about a #10 gauge wire and sends power to the under hood fuse box. Before it gets to the under hood fuse box it splits and supplies power to some circuits in the dash fuse panel. So in this stock configuration power is coming directly from the alternator on this #10 wire to supply these circuits.
If the wire is just removed from the alternator and a new heavy wire is run between the alternator and the battery positive, the under hood fuse box and the under dash fuse panel circuits are now being fed back through the #14 fusible link wire. Like this – power from alternator up big new wire through new fuse to battery positive – from battery positive back through old 14 gauge fusible link wire through old former big charging white wire then to old 10 gauge white wire to fuse panels. It will work, but all those circuits could have less power since they are being back fed through the smaller fusible link wire. To say it another way from faulty memory, the headlights, EFI, tail light relay, defog, FL heater, ECU B, and OBD will now all be fed through the 14 gauge fusible link. Hope this makes sense. Sorry I do not have that version EWD.

Wrangler NW among others has those items circled.

Hope this helps.


Bill

Bill, thanks for the reply.

I see what you are saying, but I'm still not sure that is a problem. The fusible link, instead of protecting the large current going from the alt to the battery, now only has to handle the smaller current going from the battery to the fuse box. As far as current limiting, it may as well be a solid piece of wire, as it is now way oversized for it's new duty. As far as I can tell, the only downside to doing this would be the lack of proper fusing between the battery and the fuse box (maybe 20" of wire on mine). The extra distance of wire from the fuse box to it's source (previously the alt, now the battery) would have negligible voltage drop due to resistance. When the vehicle is running, the alt B terminal and the battery + are at the same potential anyway, minus the small drop across the link (which I assume is negligible as well).

The only thing I would probably do is use a smaller rated fuse and holder in place of the fusible link inside the little AM1 box only to protect the wire from the battery to the fuse box.

I tend to over-analyze everything, and just wanted to make as few wiring changes as possible. I have not traced out the wires in the vehicle yet, so far have just been looking at the EWD.

What do you think? I'm pretty sure it will work and there will be no measurable difference in voltage levels or current draw. Unless I am missing something.

Sorry to rehash this over again.

BTW: thanks for the Wrangle link. I'll give them a call.

[Photoman]

Originally Posted by sdnative

Bill, thanks for the reply.

I see what you are saying, but I'm still not sure that is a problem. The fusible link, instead of protecting the large current going from the alt to the battery, now only has to handle the smaller current going from the battery to the fuse box. As far as current limiting, it may as well be a solid piece of wire, as it is now way oversized for it's new duty. As far as I can tell, the only downside to doing this would be the lack of proper fusing between the battery and the fuse box (maybe 20" of wire on mine). The extra distance of wire from the fuse box to it's source (previously the alt, now the battery) would have negligible voltage drop due to resistance. When the vehicle is running, the alt B terminal and the battery + are at the same potential anyway, minus the small drop across the link (which I assume is negligible as well).

The only thing I would probably do is use a smaller rated fuse and holder in place of the fusible link inside the little AM1 box only to protect the wire from the battery to the fuse box.

I tend to over-analyze everything, and just wanted to make as few wiring changes as possible. I have not traced out the wires in the vehicle yet, so far have just been looking at the EWD.

What do you think? I'm pretty sure it will work and there will be no measurable difference in voltage levels or current draw. Unless I am missing something.

Sorry to rehash this over again.

BTW: thanks for the Wrangle link. I'll give them a call.

It is true that because of its short length the fusible link has to carry at least 80 amps as that is the output of the stock alternator, at least for a short time.

Since you are looking for making as few wiring changes possible you could maybe consider one other way. Run the new large charging wire through a new fuse to the battery positive and just leave the stock wire on the alternator "B" post. Then unbolt the fusible link in the AM1 box and wrap the battery positive end with tape. This way there is minimum wiring changes and those fuse box circuits would still be fed directly from the alternator through that larger #10 wire.

Another consideration while you are analyzing and doing what you originally proposed. In a scenario where the engine could still run and either the fusible link or the fuse you replace it with blows, then you could possibly be without headlights and EFI, and ECU B since there would now be no feed to those circuits in the fuse boxes. In other words not running and possibly blind. A short in 1 circuit could shut them all down. Probably not fun to just have a short in the headlights shut the engine down.

There is a reason Toyota fed those circuits directly from the alternator and not from the battery. I like to preserve the original intentions as much as possible.

Hope these thoughts help.

Bill

[kennyfj40]

Bill,
Got the bracket for the upgrade to the 150 amp alternator, looks great by the way, thanks. I have been reading through the posts about the wiring and have a question for you electrical types. I saw that you recommend using a fuse between the alternator and battery and it should be 20% greater than the amps being pushed through the wire. I see some people using the 150 amp fuse or breaker. I am going with the 150amp alt, so do I need a 180amp fuse? I am having trouble finding one in that size seems they go from 150 then jump to 200. Will the 150 work or is it safe to jump up to the 200amp fuse?

[sdnative]

Originally Posted by Photoman

Run the new large charging wire through a new fuse to the battery positive and just leave the stock wire on the alternator "B" post. Then unbolt the fusible link in the AM1 box and wrap the battery positive end with tape. This way there is minimum wiring changes and those fuse box circuits would still be fed directly from the alternator through that larger #10 wire.

That would work. I like that idea better .

Originally Posted by Photoman

Another consideration while you are analyzing and doing what you originally proposed. In a scenario where the engine could still run and either the fusible link or the fuse you replace it with blows, then you could possibly be without headlights and EFI, and ECU B since there would now be no feed to those circuits in the fuse boxes. In other words not running and possibly blind. A short in 1 circuit could shut them all down. Probably not fun to just have a short in the headlights shut the engine down.

There is a reason Toyota fed those circuits directly from the alternator and not from the battery. I like to preserve the original intentions as much as possible.
Bill

That's exactly what I was looking for. I wanted to make sure I thought of every scenario. I guess if toyota spends big $ on development, it's probably sound. Good call.

Thanks again Bill, I'm loving the new alternator!

[sdnative]

Originally Posted by kennyfj40

Bill,
Got the bracket for the upgrade to the 150 amp alternator, looks great by the way, thanks. I have been reading through the posts about the wiring and have a question for you electrical types. I saw that you recommend using a fuse between the alternator and battery and it should be 20% greater than the amps being pushed through the wire. I see some people using the 150 amp fuse or breaker. I am going with the 150amp alt, so do I need a 180amp fuse? I am having trouble finding one in that size seems they go from 150 then jump to 200. Will the 150 work or is it safe to jump up to the 200amp fuse?

Dont take my recomendation, but I have heard reports of the 150a alt putting out more like 160-170. Probably should go with the 200a.

[Photoman]

Originally Posted by kennyfj40

Bill,
Got the bracket for the upgrade to the 150 amp alternator, looks great by the way, thanks. I have been reading through the posts about the wiring and have a question for you electrical types. I saw that you recommend using a fuse between the alternator and battery and it should be 20% greater than the amps being pushed through the wire. I see some people using the 150 amp fuse or breaker. I am going with the 150amp alt, so do I need a 180amp fuse? I am having trouble finding one in that size seems they go from 150 then jump to 200. Will the 150 work or is it safe to jump up to the 200amp fuse?

Thank you.

Maybe an electrical type can correct me if I'm wrong but I will take a shot at it.
The fuse is there to protect the wire and the components. If you are using a 4 gauge wire as many are, I think the wire is rated for 125-150 amps maximum around 4-5 feet long. So based on that wire size and length a 200 amp fuse might be a bit much.

I’m pretty sure these Mega fuses have a slow blow component.

I just looked and on the back of the fuse package there is a scale that shows how much over current protection and for how long. I looked at a couple of different Mega size fuses I have and they both have this same slow blow percentage rating scale. So a 150 amp fuse with this slow blow feature should be able to handle a current surge or spike for a short time without blowing. In looking it says the fuses will take 130 percent over current for 10 minutes. So a 150 amp could take 195 amps for 10 minutes before blowing. For what its worth, 200 percent for 3 1/2 seconds.

Here is an example with a little information. Lol, I don’t know who would buy a used fuse but I guess it takes all kinds.

The company does show they make a 175 amp if you scroll down a bit but don’t know about the availability here.

sdnative - It's good to hear you got the bad boy in there.

Bill

[TrickyT]

Originally Posted by Photoman

...Since you are looking for making as few wiring changes possible you could maybe consider one other way. Run the new large charging wire through a new fuse to the battery positive and just leave the stock wire on the alternator "B" post. Then unbolt the fusible link in the AM1 box and wrap the battery positive end with tape. This way there is minimum wiring changes and those fuse box circuits would still be fed directly from the alternator through that larger #10 wire...

The downside of this approach is that the 10AWG wire circuit is now protected against shorts by a 150A fuse instead of the "Main 2.0L" fusible link. I've never seen an equivalency table that goes from fusible link cross section area to amperage capacity, so I'm not sure how much of a problem this really is. Normally a 10AWG wire would get fused with a 30A fuse. But the 2.0L fusible link must be of greater capacity than this, since it was designed to handle to the full 80A output of the OEM alternator. Still, if a short occurs you want the 150A fuse to blow and not for the #10 wire to turn red hot and start a fire.

Note that all of the various circuits that the #10 wire feeds have their own fuses, so the only thing that is of concern here is what would happen if the 10AWG white wire shorts to ground because of an accident or because its insulation gets compromised. Perhaps an experiment is in order; connect a 4ft length of 10AWG wire through a 150A fuse to the terminals of a 12v car battery and see what happens. If the fuse blows then I think Bill's suggestion is a viable approach. If the wire turns red hot and the insulation melts then it's not such a good idea. If someone tries this out, please post the results.

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by TrickyT

If someone tries this out, please post the results.

With a short video please. Shouldn't take but about 30 to 60 seconds.

-B-

[Photoman]

Originally Posted by TrickyT

The downside of this approach is that the 10AWG wire circuit is now protected against shorts by a 150A fuse instead of the "Main 2.0L" fusible link. I've never seen an equivalency table that goes from fusible link cross section area to amperage capacity, so I'm not sure how much of a problem this really is. Normally a 10AWG wire would get fused with a 30A fuse. But the 2.0L fusible link must be of greater capacity than this, since it was designed to handle to the full 80A output of the OEM alternator. Still, if a short occurs you want the 150A fuse to blow and not for the #10 wire to turn red hot and start a fire.

Note that all of the various circuits that the #10 wire feeds have their own fuses, so the only thing that is of concern here is what would happen if the 10AWG white wire shorts to ground because of an accident or because its insulation gets compromised. Perhaps an experiment is in order; connect a 4ft length of 10AWG wire through a 150A fuse to the terminals of a 12v car battery and see what happens. If the fuse blows then I think Bill's suggestion is a viable approach. If the wire turns red hot and the insulation melts then it's not such a good idea. If someone tries this out, please post the results.

I’m not sure about that downside. I would ask this question. Does the cruiser run with the battery disconnected? If yes, either the Main 2.0L fusible link or a 150 amp fuse would only protect the small white wire from the battery, not the alternator. In the accident or wire short scenario if the motor was still running it would not matter if either fuse failed as the small white wire would still get output from the alternator. Maybe unregulated.

TrickyT’s point is well taken. Any alterations we make can have consequences. If this is not acceptable, leave it stock. If concerned about TrickT’s point with the above wiring option, fuse the small white wire at the alternator.

Before we pull our hotdogs out for the wire test I need to make a couple corrections.
I said the small white wire was “about” 10 gauge; it’s actually closer to 7 gauge. The 10 gauge wire is 12 inches away from the “B” alternator terminal. Second the fuse link wire measures around 12 gauge not 14 gauge. I measured the copper now instead of “abouting”, first with an American standard wire gauge and then with a micrometer. They still will not be exact but closer to correct.

The diameters of the wires are as follows:
Main charging larger white wire was .160 inches……..~ 6 gauge
Smaller white wire .140 inches……..~7 gauge
Blue fusible link wire .082 inches…….~12 gauge

12 inches from the “B” post on the alternator the .140 inch smaller white wire has 2 wires bugged on. The diameter of each wire is .100 inches…….~10 gauge One of these wires goes to the under hood 15 amp EFI, the other to the headlight relay.
The .140 inch white wire continues through the firewall to the in dash fuse panel. At least 3 other wires are bugged off this to feed circuits in the fuse panel. 10 amp ECU B, 15 amp OBD, 20 amp defog, and 40 amp FL heater. I did not measure these wire sizes nor look where the splices were. To sum up, an ~7 gauge wire runs from the alternator “B” post in to the in dash fuse panel with at least 5 wires bugged off of it some of them ~10 gauge.

Bill

.

[TrickyT]

Originally Posted by Photoman

I’m not sure about that downside. I would ask this question. Does the cruiser run with the battery disconnected? If yes, either the Main 2.0L fusible link or a 150 amp fuse would only protect the small white wire from the battery, not the alternator. In the accident or wire short scenario if the motor was still running it would not matter if either fuse failed as the small white wire would still get output from the alternator. Maybe unregulated.

I think it will run with the battery disconnected. But in this scenario it won't stay running long because the wire in question powers the ECU and if it shorts to ground the ECU will go dead and the motor will stop. So the wiring is self-protected in this case.

Originally Posted by Photoman

TrickyT’s point is well taken. Any alterations we make can have consequences. If this is not acceptable, leave it stock. If concerned about TrickyT’s point with the above wiring option, fuse the small white wire at the alternator.

Before we pull our hotdogs out for the wire test I need to make a couple corrections. I said the small white wire was “about” 10 gauge; it’s actually closer to 7 gauge. The 10 gauge wire is 12 inches away from the “B” alternator terminal. Second the fuse link wire measures around 12 gauge not 14 gauge. I measured the copper now instead of “abouting”, first with an American standard wire gauge and then with a micrometer. They still will not be exact but closer to correct.

The diameters of the wires are as follows:
Main charging larger white wire was .160 inches……..~ 6 gauge
Smaller white wire .140 inches……..~7 gauge
Blue fusible link wire .082 inches…….~12 gauge

12 inches from the “B” post on the alternator the .140 inch smaller white wire has 2 wires bugged on. The diameter of each wire is .100 inches…….~10 gauge One of these wires goes to the under hood 15 amp EFI, the other to the headlight relay.
The .140 inch white wire continues through the firewall to the in dash fuse panel. At least 3 other wires are bugged off this to feed circuits in the fuse panel. 10 amp ECU B, 15 amp OBD, 20 amp defog, and 40 amp FL heater. I did not measure these wire sizes nor look where the splices were. To sum up, an ~7 gauge wire runs from the alternator “B” post in to the in dash fuse panel with at least 5 wires bugged off of it some of them ~10 gauge.

~7 gauge should be good for ~89 amps indefinitely according to the chart. And like any copper wire, it will probably handle much more than this for a short period of time. In the short-to-ground scenario it needs to handle a whole lot of current for a short time. Can it handle, for example, the 200% overload of a 150A Megafuse for the 3 1/2 seconds required before the fuse blows? Probably. I certainly feel more confident about it with it being a ~7 gauge wire. In fact so much so that I don't think it's worth doing the experiment I proposed because I'm willing to bet on the fuse blowing.

It's also worth keeping in mind the chances of the failure scenario we are talking about, where the white wire supplying 12v to a bunch of fused circuits shorts to ground somewhere along it's ~6-8ft path between the battery to the two fuse blocks. It certainly could happen, but I've never read a report of it here on Mud and suspect the chances are relatively low. So it's like you said Bill, the alterations we make can have consequences and folks just need to be aware of what they are and assess them from a safety perspective themselves. As for me, I think the idea we're talking about, running a larger 2 gauge wire fused at 150A from the battery to the alternator and disconnecting the "Main 2.0L" fusible link is a good one and is what I'm going to do when I do my install.

[TrickyT]

I stopped by West Marine on my way home yesterday because I was seriously thinking of buying a 150A Megafuse ($13) and doing the experiment I proposed in post #101 above. I ended up not buying the Megafuse, but I did spot a new product from Blue Sea that I thought was pretty cool. It's called a Terminal Fuse Block; here's the URL: Terminal Fuse Block - Blue Sea Systems. There's a bunch of different fuse sizes available, from 30A - 300A: Terminal Fuse - Blue Sea Systems.

Since these fuses and fuse block are pretty compact, my thinking is that the fuse block could bolt directly to the battery terminal or battery connector and thereby avoid having to find a separate place to mount the Megafuse holder. Saves a little wiring too.

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by TrickyT

I think the idea we're talking about, running a larger 2 gauge wire fused at 150A from the battery to the alternator and disconnecting the "Main 2.0L" fusible link is a good one and is what I'm going to do when I do my install.

I just wanted to capture this as a summary for when I come back to this thread during my alternator upgrade project.

-B-

[NLXTACY]

I think at this point, what would make this thread really kick butt is a nice schematic showing before and after set ups. I thought I had it all figured out but this new discussion has me rethinking the project.

[TrickyT]

Sorry, no schematic. But the wiring is straight forward. Disconnect the ~7 gauge white wire where it connects to the Main 2.0L fusible link and tape up and secure the end so it won't short against anything. Then install a 150A fuse at or near the positive terminal of the battery and run a 2 gauge wire from the fuse down to the "B" terminal on the alternator (leave the existing wire lug also connected to the B terminal). That's it.

And credit where credit is due please: this was Photoman's idea! (See post #96)

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by TrickyT

And credit where credit is due please: this was Photoman's idea! (See post #96)

Noted.

-B-

[Photoman]

Originally Posted by TrickyT

Sorry, no schematic. But the wiring is straight forward. Disconnect the ~7 gauge white wire where it connects to the Main 2.0L fusible link and tape up and secure the end so it won't short against anything. Then install a 150A fuse at or near the positive terminal of the battery and run a 2 gauge wire from the fuse down to the "B" terminal on the alternator (leave the existing wire lug also connected to the B terminal). That's it.

And credit where credit is due please: this was Photoman's idea! (See post #96)

Thanks for the credit.

There is a picture in post #22 of AM1 showing where the fusible link can be disconnected when I first proposed this way of doing the wiring.

One slight correction. The large white charging wire that runs from the alternator “B” post to AM1 is a ~6 gauge wire. The ~7 gauge wire goes from alternator “B” to the fuse panels.

Bill

[concretejungle]

i added a couple of good pics in post 67. that is basically what i did.

[landtank]

I've been asked to do this upgrade for someone so I'm way late in the game here. If this question has been asked and aswered I'm sorry and I'll delete this post from the thread.

I've worked on several European machines and have seen where they have run two separate fused lines to carry a large load. I'm not sure if it's a good practice or not, but is that something you guys have considered?

So basically leave everything intact but just add an addition line from the alternator to the battery with maybe a 80 amp fuse or whatever works out to compliment what is already there to provide the ability to carry the full 150amps to the battery.

And Bill, do you have any more kits?

[Photoman]

I have heard that it is possible to parallel fuses. The danger in my opinion is if one of either wires connections would get corroded then the other is asked to carry more of the load. Same thing if for some reason one fuse would fail except the other would have to carry the full load. I think if I were to try this, I would get another Toyota fusible link instead of a fuse and use the same size wire and length. That way both parallel legs would be equal and not unbalanced. Just my opinion.

Yes, I still have some more kits. PM or the email address here work if you need one.


Bill

[landtank]

Originally Posted by Photoman

I have heard that it is possible to parallel fuses. The danger in my opinion is if one of either wires connections would get corroded then the other is asked to carry more of the load. Same thing if for some reason one fuse would fail except the other would have to carry the full load. I think if I were to try this, I would get another Toyota fusible link instead of a fuse and use the same size wire and length. That way both parallel legs would be equal and not unbalanced. Just my opinion.

Yes, I still have some more kits. PM or the email address here work if you need one.


Bill

typically under high load if one blows then the other follows soon after. The confusing part is if you don't realize that there are two fuses. You end up replacing the blow fuse you know about only to have it last until the next high load and then it fails again.

Probably bets to stick with a single high amp line. Just thought I'd throw it out there and get some responses.

Rick

[TrickyT]

I'm curious as to the logic of the two parallel circuits. The downside is what you point out, plus the additional confusion for the user because it's a non-standard setup. What could the upside be, other than to keep the maximum wire diameter lower? Definitely it's not a common practice.

[landtank]

in my case we needed to run power through a track cable and the larger wire couldn't stand up to the constant flexing. The power aspects of our trucks is something that I've never taken the time to get to know intimately. I've actively avoided the need for a dual battery setup and have no love for big ass lights or high power stereo amps. But now I have someone who wants me to install one and I want to familiarize my self with the system to be confident that I am delivering what he expects.

So just through it out there to get some feed back.

[NLXTACY]

I have seen large output SINE converters that recommend going with (2) 4AWG cables as opposed to say (1) 1/0. For my own solution I preferred bring in ONE pair of 1/0 and call it a day. Now I can add anything I want in the future and as long as I'm not running something ridiculously high current, I will be fine.

[landtank]

Originally Posted by NLXTACY

I have seen large output SINE converters that recommend going with (2) 4AWG cables as opposed to say (1) 1/0.

there is actually a good reason for this. Most fires occure when there is a path to ground that isn't enough to cause a fuse to blow. I've actually seen this were a wire's insulation has chaffed enough to cause a high ohm short that created enough heat to combust but never trip the breaker.

This goes right into having a single high amp line from the alternator. While a dead short will always blow that fuse a high OHM one will just generate heat. The higher the amp of the fuse the greater the heat it can generate.

If you run two lines rated for half the amp draw then you have greater protection in these non dead short scenarios. And in a vibration situation this is the more common scenario you see.

[barCruiser]

Just thought I would add to the praise. I installed the 150 amp alt. last night, and was very impressed at how well the bracket is made, and how it fit perfectly. The install looks completely factory, and I couldn't be happier. Thanks again Bill.

[concretejungle]

Yep, but i will add that you really are not smarter than Bill for the install, so follow the directions to a tee or do it over and over again until you decide to follow the directions. Kinda like me.

EDIT: that wasn't directed at you barcruiser, just saying in general. His instructions are very accurate.