[ThePookieBear]

Okay, okay. I know many people have brought up things to supposedly give you more power along with better fuel consumption. I also know they have been refuted many times. However, before anyone flames me look at: SOMENDER-SINGH.com

I thought it was extremely strange sounding, but looking at all the research and even dyno tests it seems to be exactly what most of us want. Something too good to be true...(until we can all swap in diesels and make bio.)

[KliersLC]

How much does it cost

[NaterGator]

Is this the guy that puts little groves in the cylinder head, supposedly making the combustion super efficient?

I read a long article about him in a science journal if so, and about how it was most likely only beneficial where they had really inconsistent and crappy fuel like in India. None the less last I heard a major university was going to fly him over here and fund a bunch of testing, and I remember the timeline for completion being around now.

[ThePookieBear]

Thats the one. I am really curious about it. And KliersLC, it costs basically whatever the cost would be to have someone get your cylinder heads out and grind/file/dremel, or whatever the grooves in. No kits or anything. How would the crappy fuel be the main variable NaterGator? Not trying to argue of course. I just don't understand it completely. Also, I think at least two of the dyno tests were american cars. A Dodge pickup and Chevy pickup I think.

[NaterGator]

The journal I was reading was talking about how he got some 4cyl econobox to idle smoothly at like 150rpms and he could keep it in basically 1 gear and drive it around. They were saying the plugs came out like they had been in an extremely clean/hot burning motor. But they also said that the fuel over there is so poor it is likely that the gains seen there would not be nearly as extreme here and that the unforseen effects of whatever it is he is doing would be greater than the gains.

From what I remember he was very specific that the size/spacing of the hashes were different for each motor and he hand-did each motor. He did seem somewhat brilliant but it was clear that he had no research or anything to back up his claims, just a bunch of happy customers and a willingness to try it out under much heavier scientific scrutiny.

I need to dig around in the journals I have access to through the UF lib and see if I can find anything more recent.

[BassTracker]

This is the first I've seen or heard of this, interesting.

He has pictures of the modifications for all to see and it sounds like he isn't making a dime out of this, but I'm kinda skeptical.

I know in the performance world people/engine builders go to a lot of trouble smoothing out and deburring the combustion chambers and piston tops/domes. The reason is sharp edges create hot spots which lead to detonation. The kind of detonation that can pound rod/crank bearings and wristpins to death as well as hurt pistons and break rings/ring lands.

Look at the last two pictures in the link below, one is the piston and the other the combustion chamber of a 406 chevy small block that was torn down after "plenty of run time". See those little shiny specks, particularly on the quench side of the combustion chamber? That is typical of detonation. Granted it could be the picture, or could be his particular combination of parts and/or compression. The owner mentioned something about the blue tint of the carbon, that probably has something to do with the fact the racing fuel he was using was tinted blue(racing fuel is colored like offroad diesel). If he's detonating on racing fuel he's doing something.

SOMENDER-SINGH.com - Jr's 406CI SBC burn pattern

On the performance side if this was the magic trick it supposed to be everybody would be talking about it. As far as economy etc, I can't speak for that. I do feel that I wouldn't do it until it's been tested/proven. Personally I wouldn't want to subject any of my engines to the kind of detonation that it COULD cause. Just the thought of it makes me worry, detonation can destroy an engine.

[ThePookieBear]

I didn't know all of that stuff. I guess everything has a trade off huh. I hope that he does get it tested pretty thoroughly and all though. It would be awesome if it did what it said.

[stereophile33]

so a couple of thoughts.

Its hard, really hard to do back to back tests. Because the grooves lower the compression and the optimal piston to head clearance is ~70 thou.

So the compression gets lowered significantly, so motors that already have significantly LOW compression, there seems no reason to make it worse.

On volvo motors there have been a number of people that have tried the singh grooves.

Most aftermarket head builders are focused on fast burn heads and high compression set-ups.

There are a few and I mean a few people that have dedicated themselves to making the singh grooves competitive.


Please don't feel like I am slamming the groove theory, as it has some merit, I just believe there are a few other things we can do that far outway cutting grooves in a cast iron head–thinner headgasket, raised compression, cleaned up heads, and offset wristpins would be a quick start.

Jonathan

[womacje]

Would detonation cause higher engine temps? this groover claims lower engine temps. How about these for interesting? www.airtab.com - The smart way to cut the cost of your highway fuel costs Build Your Own Experimental Ram-Implosion-Wing! Not to high jack but thought of these when you mentioned the head grooving.