[JasonM]

I had the family (wife and 3 kids) all pack up to go camping for the weekend with about 100lbs. of gear packed in the back. Everything was great untill I was just to the bottom of a 5 mile 10% grade hill when my brakes wend to the floor. Luckly I was not going fast at that point and had enough pressure to stop the family safley to the side of the road. Once I was safe I pumped the brakes and had nothing, loose all the way to the floor.

I got out thinking I have a blown brake line, and after looking at the master cylinder and all the brake lines, everything was OK? The brakes were hot, but not extremely hot. I was at a loss, so we sat around thinking of what to do, when I got back in 20 min later and had pressure again? The pressue soft but after a few hours it returned to normal.

I have a 93 and it is possible that the fluid has not been changed in a while. The master cylender was full of fluid, but not overflowing. I am a little freeked out trying to trust my brakes because of this mystery brake problem.

Any help or ideas would be great, because I don't want their to be a next time!

[bhmmapping]

There was a recent thread on this, sounds like you overheated your brakes. Were you riding the brakes for the entire 5 miles?

[TiredIronGRB]

Sounds like lack of maintenance almost killed the family instead of the 80.

Those symptoms sound like moisture in the brake fluid to me.

[agomez]

drop the tranny into second on the decent use brakes sparingly and for goodness sake use the emergency brake in extreme cases....

[tomatopants]

The family that owned mine before I did had the same problem, it turned out to be undersized rotors.


Get that checked out.

[DanKunz]

Ditto TiredIron...maintenance issues and a touch of driver error...not running in 2 or another gear other than "D" can put a lot of strain on the brakes with that long of a grade.

[Romer]

use the engine to brake going down hil. Riding the brakes downhill will cause them to overheat and do just what you described. You need to replace you brake fluid now as it's characteristics have changed. You probably should check your pads as well.

If the above scenario is what happened, it is not the 80's fault but the way it was operated. It is a heavy truck. May have been less prone with fresh brake fluid, but don't know.

[JasonM]

The truck was in 2cd gear on the decent!

I got the truck not to long ago and should have done a complete flush and fill of the brake fluid. The fluid was low when I bought it so all I have done to the system was to top it off.

[BHMCruiser]

If you cannot figure out the brake problem, take it to a shop. Don't screw around with your brakes.

[joker]

6000 lbs / 5miles / and a 10% grade dont add up well. if you see road signs telling big trucks to shift to a lower gear or pull over to check brakes, its to prevent stuff like this from happening. imagine a 65000 lb truck in that situation...

definitely get the rotors checked to make sure theyre the correct ones. ive never heard of that happening to anyone til now but its pretty alarming. another good reason to learn to do the maintenance yourself. so you know whats on your truck.

these guys give some good advice. flush and replace the brake fluid. check your brakelines (especially the soft lines) check the rotors. check the pads. and anything else they said i missed...

[CappyKD]

As stated above, Bleed the brakes and you will be fine. You have the classic symptoms of boiling brake fluid due to old age / moisture contamination.

[Grench]

I was going to post something mean but am refraining.

The 80 isn't to blame. It can roll down 10% grades, in control, at 45 mph, without using the brakes much at all. I just did it 10 days ago.

[JasonM]

Im not looking for a skape-goat, I drive that hill very other day for work with 2-3 people, 200lbs guys each (carpool) and never had a problem. I am experienced with mountain driving and gear down for the hill.

I was alarmed because this was the first time in many decents that I have ever had this issue.


I should have said the brakes/maintenence and not the 80 almost killed the family.

[MDarius]

I do a lot of driving in the mountains around Northern Utah. It's not unusual to find your self on a steep long grade. Shortly after getting the 80, not knowing it's characteristics, I noticed that my brakes were heating on a steep grade. I could smell them and feel a difference in the pedal. I changed my driving habits, tapping the brakes more, driving in a lower gear, etc. Then I learned that the 80 can handle 4000 RPM loads without much difficulty. I have no problem driving down a long grade in 2nd, tapping my brakes to maintain speed and RPM's.

The Toyota drives different and handles stresses differently than a GM or Ford vehicle. It can be driven differently. It's easy to not realize when switching over.

I also upgraded to the 100 series pads and have appreciated the difference they make. I have never had a concern in the many canyons and long grades since I changed my driving habits and especially my brake pads and fluid.

[JasonM]

Originally Posted by MDarius

I do a lot of driving in the mountains around Northern Utah. It's not unusual to find your self on a steep long grade. Shortly after getting the 80, not knowing it's characteristics, I noticed that my brakes were heating on a steep grade. I could smell them and feel a difference in the pedal. I changed my driving habits, tapping the brakes more, driving in a lower gear, etc. Then I learned that the 80 can handle 4000 RPM loads without much difficulty. I have no problem driving down a long grade in 2nd, tapping my brakes to maintain speed and RPM's.

The Toyota drives different and handles stresses differently than a GM or Ford vehicle. It can be driven differently. It's easy to not realize when switching over.

I also upgraded to the 100 series pads and have appreciated the difference they make. I have never had a concern in the many canyons and long grades since I changed my driving habits and especially my brake pads and fluid.

Will the 100 series pads fit with out modification?

One problem with this hill is the bottom 2miles has a 20mph speed limit, at that speed 2nd does not slow you down and when it is in first it just keeps shifting into second.

[Darwood]

Originally Posted by JasonM

Will the 100 series pads fit with out modification?

One problem with this hill is the bottom 2miles has a 20mph speed limit, at that speed 2nd does not slow you down and when it is in first it just keeps shifting into second.

You can use 100 series pads without modification however you'll either need new rotors or turned rotors since the wear patterns are different between the two pads.

Also if the transmission selector is in 1st it should stay in first, it shouldn't up-shift so that doesn't sound good that it did shift.

[FirstToy]

Get some Valvoline Synthetic (compatible w/ regular DOT3 & 4) to help prevent boiling.

new pads, check the rotors, replace your soft lines with Slee Stainless Steel replacement lines.

get some speedbleeders.com so you can easily change the fluid every year. Sounds like w/ your driving conditions, every year is cheap insurance.

good luck, hope it cures it!

[MDarius]

FWIW, I had a bad brake piston on my right hand side. It would freeze up especially under hard or long braking situations. It did not always show up during an inspection. I would notice the truck pulling to the right too much when I was driving and braking it would pull harder to one side than the other. This is not exactly common, but it's not unheard of. I changed out everything up front, including rotors, and upgraded to the 100 series pads.

I don't know if there are pressure tests for the the master cylinder or pistons, but in your driving conditions it's worth having it checked out.

Out of curiosity, what hill is this you are talking about that you hit regularly?

[Grench]

Sounds like your transmission linkage may be offset?

On the 94... wouldn't that be OD/D/2/1 on the shifter? I know the '92 is that way. The '96 has D/2/1 on the shifter and the secret OD button on the side of it.

If it were in '1' on the shifter, it should stay in low gear (high range) and shouldn't be able to cross 25mph without driver's help (gas). If it is, 'shifting to 2nd,' then there is either something wrong with the transmission, the linkage, or the driver shifted down twice like on a US car not realizing that they had gone from OD (4 gears) to D (3 gears) to 2 (2 gears) rather than down to 1 (1 gear)?

Can someone verify how the shifter on the '94 is configured?

[geordie]

I was just checking EBC parts and the 91 through 97 are all the same but the 98 up are different.

I'd change the brake fluid immediately, but also check the disk and pad thickness, both inner and outer pads since they sometimes wear unevenly. Thin pads and disks heat up very fast. Drilled or slotted rotors reduce thermal mass and friction area, both bad things for brakes and virtually worthless with modern pads.

Is everyone using OEM pads? I have had very good results with EBC Red Stuff on my car, I've driven hard and fast down hill from the Sierras and had smoke wafting out of the wheels at stops but without any fade. But having not tried them on a truck yet I'd be cautious of recomending them for that use. They do very high temperature kevlar/ceramic pads as well as OEM replacements and low dust types. They have specific grades for SUVs. The two minor down sides are that they need a harsh breakin, which takes at least half an hour to do properly, and they are slightly non-linear, as they heat they grab harder, but it's not an issue unless you are racing. They still work fine when stone cold.

[Grench]

I put new OEM rotors and OEM 100 series pads on both of my 80s when we did the front end service. I like it. YMMV

[JasonM]

Originally Posted by MDarius

FWIW, I had a bad brake piston on my right hand side. It would freeze up especially under hard or long braking situations. It did not always show up during an inspection. I would notice the truck pulling to the right too much when I was driving and braking it would pull harder to one side than the other. This is not exactly common, but it's not unheard of. I changed out everything up front, including rotors, and upgraded to the 100 series pads.

I don't know if there are pressure tests for the the master cylinder or pistons, but in your driving conditions it's worth having it checked out.

Out of curiosity, what hill is this you are talking about that you hit regularly?

I work neer the top of Gardsmans pass on the ski slopes of Deer Valley Ski resort. The road is Marsac ave. that goes into Park City from the old mine, and then down Parlesy Canyon.

Thanks for you input!

[tomatopants]

If that happens to ANYONE in the future, downshifting and using the e-brake is your best bet.


Cept you probably should just ease the e-brake into braking position cause if you do it to fast, you might end up sliding sideways and then upside down and stuff.

[MDarius]

Originally Posted by JasonM

I work neer the top of Gardsmans pass on the ski slopes of Deer Valley Ski resort. The road is Marsac ave. that goes into Park City from the old mine, and then down Parlesy Canyon.

Thanks for you input!

Yeah, that is a lot of steep grade, especially if you do it all the time. Good luck! Be safe. Check out all the tires threads on here as well. With winter coming I presume you'll be spending more time up there and having a good match of tires + brakes + 80 will pay off nicely. The 80 will take it fine with the suggestions you're getting.

BTW, make sure your OD button (if you have one) is disengaged, or you may find yourself shifting unexpectedly. I don't know about 1st to 2nd though, listen to Grench and the others. Don't hesitate to run the truck at 4000RPM's up Parley's. With good maintenance it will handle it day in and day out with no problem. Just turn OD off and hold your RPM's.

[JasonM]

Originally Posted by Grench

Sounds like your transmission linkage may be offset?

On the 94... wouldn't that be OD/D/2/1 on the shifter? I know the '92 is that way. The '96 has D/2/1 on the shifter and the secret OD button on the side of it.

If it were in '1' on the shifter, it should stay in low gear (high range) and shouldn't be able to cross 25mph without driver's help (gas). If it is, 'shifting to 2nd,' then there is either something wrong with the transmission, the linkage, or the driver shifted down twice like on a US car not realizing that they had gone from OD (4 gears) to D (3 gears) to 2 (2 gears) rather than down to 1 (1 gear)?

Can someone verify how the shifter on the '94 is configured?

On mine the 93, I have the D/2/1 with the OD button on the side.

I have checked the pads and rotors prior to the trip... in good shape. I have a set of Slee SS line comming and will be doing a complet flush and installing the new lines this week end.

[JasonM]

Originally Posted by MDarius

FWIW, I had a bad brake piston on my right hand side. It would freeze up especially under hard or long braking situations. It did not always show up during an inspection. I would notice the truck pulling to the right too much when I was driving and braking it would pull harder to one side than the other. This is not exactly common, but it's not unheard of. I changed out everything up front, including rotors, and upgraded to the 100 series pads.

I don't know if there are pressure tests for the the master cylinder or pistons, but in your driving conditions it's worth having it checked out.

Out of curiosity, what hill is this you are talking about that you hit regularly?

Did you ever notice the ABS kicking in (for anti lock brakes) when the piston was frozen?

[FirstToy]

would the overheating cause glazing over or otherwise make your pads less effective?
might as well change the pads while you're there if that's the case.

[CJF]

Originally Posted by JasonM

when it is in first it just keeps shifting into second.

As other's have said, this is a problem that you definitely need to address. Almost guaranteed it was a factor in your little adventure.

[tntoyota]

Originally Posted by JasonM

The truck was in 2cd gear on the decent!

So?


If you where doing @ 50 mph 3,000+ rpm that might of helped. as slow as I believe you where going this did absolutely nothing to slow its decent!


(T.C) Probably wasn't even above stall! i.e costing like it was in neutral, only up to the breaks to slow...



But I wasn't there and am only basing this on what was said


If you are going to compression break it, do it where you feel it back down, (mostly cuz A.T) its not hurting anything. (tach scares most people) Even in the Red (watch the red line on the tach) It only means power is dropping and you shouldn't be there, not "It's gonna blow!!!" "It's gonna blow!!!" as soon as the needle touches it.

[JasonM]

Originally Posted by FirstToy

would the overheating cause glazing over or otherwise make your pads less effective?
might as well change the pads while you're there if that's the case.

I will check and most likely change this week end as well!