[BrettinSanAntonio]

I change the brake fluid in all my cars once a year. I mean all of it; totally bleed the system. Most Euro cars recommend this interval or every 15K miles.

[Big Red 64]

Just a little more information on this hill. It is actually over 15% at the steepest section- adjacent to the big mine slag heap just below the turnoff to upper Deer Valley. It is about 10 miles from my house and I have ridden it quite a few times on my road bike- it is a killer climb. The 10% shown on the road sign is more like the average! When there is traffic the air at the bottom constantly smells like burning brakes- a lot of it from tourists driving rental cars and riding the brakes. There is a runaway truck lane near the bottom to the right. It was put in a few years ago after a dump truck lost its brakes and nearly killed several people before it crashed.

[cary]

Originally Posted by turbocruiser

Holy Crap Cary! I thought that you knew so much about brakes (and I knew so little)! You cannot even use the things without screwing them up!
By the way, I think that drilled and slotted rotors would have helped your above situation some, but, ... , a better driver would have helped more!

It was before I replaced the pads and rotors with the old aftermarket pads the prior owner had put on. It did sneak up and get me though. I was going down old priest grade on the way back from Yosemite, 1700 vertical feet in 2 or so miles at low speed (no airflow). I went down in second, modulated my speed with the brakes, and never felt a problem, until I got to the very bottom and went to stop at the stop sign. Nice solid pedal, complete outgassing from the pads and couldn't stop. Fortunately no cars were coming. As a guy that grew up driving cars with brakes that faded, I should have thought of the possibility, but I haven't had to worry about it in years.

The funny part is the next day we turned to go down the grade again (it cuts 15 miles off the drive) and my wife looks over at me with this "are you fucking nuts look", I told her, don't worry, and ran it down in first that time letting engine run at 3500-4000 rpms the whole way down. No problem then.

[guzzla]

fitting the 100s pads is easy.

You need to have the disks machined to even out the surface from the old pads and they should fit straight in. most times you dont need to use any shims as they fit real firm.

As been said before get the fluid changed and if your really concerned you could have the piston callipers overhauled. you can do this yourself easy enough though sometimes getting the pistons out can be a pain if they have started to rust up. Toyota do a kit though most good brake shops wwill be able to supply good quality aftermarket gear to suit.

Personally Id stay away from drilled rotors if you have a tendency to drive mud holes as you will chew out your disks real quick. Just stick with the standard disks as they do a good job.

After i did the whole shebang I went for a drive and nearly planted my face in the windscreen the first time I used the brakes - those 100s pads rock.

Cheers,
Nathan

[cpg]

Originally Posted by cary

It was before I replaced the pads and rotors with the old aftermarket pads the prior owner had put on. It did sneak up and get me though. I was going down old priest grade on the way back from Yosemite, 1700 vertical feet in 2 or so miles at low speed (no airflow). I went down in second, modulated my speed with the brakes, and never felt a problem, until I got to the very bottom and went to stop at the stop sign. Nice solid pedal, complete outgassing from the pads and couldn't stop. Fortunately no cars were coming. As a guy that grew up driving cars with brakes that faded, I should have thought of the possibility, but I haven't had to worry about it in years.

The funny part is the next day we turned to go down the grade again (it cuts 15 miles off the drive) and my wife looks over at me with this "are you fucking nuts look", I told her, don't worry, and ran it down in first that time letting engine run at 3500-4000 rpms the whole way down. No problem then.

Had the exact same thing happen at the exact same place a few years ago. No smell just at the stop sign at the bottom no brakes was fine after they cooled for a bit. I use low range With the center diff un locked now.

[turbocruiser]

Originally Posted by cary

It was before I replaced the pads and rotors with the old aftermarket pads the prior owner had put on. It did sneak up and get me though. I was going down old priest grade on the way back from Yosemite, 1700 vertical feet in 2 or so miles at low speed (no airflow). I went down in second, modulated my speed with the brakes, and never felt a problem, until I got to the very bottom and went to stop at the stop sign. Nice solid pedal, complete outgassing from the pads and couldn't stop. Fortunately no cars were coming. As a guy that grew up driving cars with brakes that faded, I should have thought of the possibility, but I haven't had to worry about it in years.

The funny part is the next day we turned to go down the grade again (it cuts 15 miles off the drive) and my wife looks over at me with this "are you fucking nuts look", I told her, don't worry, and ran it down in first that time letting engine run at 3500-4000 rpms the whole way down. No problem then.

Well, first and more importantly, I'm truly thankful that you are alright after that.

But, second and still important, I would say to that, "No Excuse"; I've taken the Pikes Peak Highway down dozens and dozens of times and relied almost exclusively on engine braking while still driving spiritedly. I cannot think of a much more excrutiating grade to go down. I know exactly which parts can stay in D with OD off, which parts require 2nd, which require 1st. The point is simply to say that brakes should at most get gentle pumps as you descend down a hill; anytime you are riding the brakes you are getting your gears wrong.

I know I'm busting your balls a bit here Cary. Please understand that at least half of it is only in fun, and half of it is cause you constantly tout that brake knowledge of yours which tends to be wrong apparently from "theory" to "reality". Again most importantly for the past, I'm happy you are alright, and again, for the future, learn to drive that pig!

[JasonM]

Originally Posted by cpg

Had the exact same thing happen at the exact same place a few years ago. No smell just at the stop sign at the bottom no brakes was fine after they cooled for a bit. I use low range With the center diff un locked now.

Ya, I will not make that mistake again!

[JasonM]

Originally Posted by guzzla

fitting the 100s pads is easy.

You need to have the disks machined to even out the surface from the old pads and they should fit straight in. most times you dont need to use any shims as they fit real firm.

As been said before get the fluid changed and if your really concerned you could have the piston callipers overhauled. you can do this yourself easy enough though sometimes getting the pistons out can be a pain if they have started to rust up. Toyota do a kit though most good brake shops wwill be able to supply good quality aftermarket gear to suit.

Personally Id stay away from drilled rotors if you have a tendency to drive mud holes as you will chew out your disks real quick. Just stick with the standard disks as they do a good job.

After i did the whole shebang I went for a drive and nearly planted my face in the windscreen the first time I used the brakes - those 100s pads rock.

Cheers,
Nathan

I will pick some up this week end!

[JasonM]

Originally Posted by Big Red 64

Just a little more information on this hill. It is actually over 15% at the steepest section- adjacent to the big mine slag heap just below the turnoff to upper Deer Valley. It is about 10 miles from my house and I have ridden it quite a few times on my road bike- it is a killer climb. The 10% shown on the road sign is more like the average! When there is traffic the air at the bottom constantly smells like burning brakes- a lot of it from tourists driving rental cars and riding the brakes. There is a runaway truck lane near the bottom to the right. It was put in a few years ago after a dump truck lost its brakes and nearly killed several people before it crashed.

Thanks for the update on the hill! It makes me nervous seeing all the big trucks that go down it every day!

[JasonM]

Originally Posted by IdahoDoug

Couple comments. If the shifter's in 1st, the tranny should stay in 1st no matter what regarding various switches. I think Jason's truck is a 93/4 which has no 2nd start button like the sissy 95+ models do. At that grade and looking for that low speed I'd have been in 1st. The advice on using the emergency brake on the way down is not good - the emergency (drum) pair of brakes on the rear axle should only be used in service brake failure to get the truck stopped, or for parking. They're not built or sized for continuous dragging down a hill. I'm assuming this truck is stock tires and no lift.

I have a short 10-12% grade around here and that's eye poppin steep for a paved road. We use it for hill climb training on our road bikes (ouch) and FYI you should be in 1st to control speed on something like that. Obviously, traveling this road will put a heat load on your tranny as well, so you should ensure you have a tranny full of fresh fluid.

Out.

It sounds like I have something wrong with the trans! I will do a flush and fill to see if that helps or fixes the problem. If it still slips, is their anything else I can do, or is it time to take it in or by a new one? What typically is the cause of this kind of slip... the cluch packs?

[Walking Eagle]

Originally Posted by Darwood

You can use 100 series pads without modification however you'll either need new rotors or turned rotors since the wear patterns are different between the two pads.

Also if the transmission selector is in 1st it should stay in first, it shouldn't up-shift so that doesn't sound good that it did shift.

agree with 2nd part, not with 1st.

100 series pads cannot be used without modification - the one modification that you must make is leaving out the anti-squeal shims. They're too think to fit with the shims. This is a point that is often missed when talking about adding 100 series pads, and it frustrated me to no end trying to put them on until I realized I had to run without the shims, then everyone said, "well, ya', we all knew that"

[cary]

Originally Posted by turbocruiser

But, second and still important, I would say to that, "No Excuse"; The point is simply to say that brakes should at most get gentle pumps as you descend down a hill; anytime you are riding the brakes you are getting your gears wrong.

I know I'm busting your balls a bit here Cary. Please understand that at least half of it is only in fun, and half of it is cause you constantly tout that brake knowledge of yours which tends to be wrong apparently from "theory" to "reality".

As I said, I know better and should have thought of it on the way down being I grew up driving cars that didn't have enough brakes (think Volkswagen vans with drums). I was engine braking and on an d off the brakes on the way down. The problem was 1) they were biting fine for the modulating I was doing so I never felt them start to fade, and 2) the very bottom is steeper (average grade is something like 17%) and it pushed them from slightly faded to full fade.

I know how to brake and when they are starting to go. I have a lot of track time under my belt from lapping days, where you will overheat any stock brakes, and that was where I learned about upgraded pads, always having clean fluid, etc. My big mistake, beside the brain fade, was leaving and unknown quality pad in the truck (I flushed the fluid when I got the truck, but left the pads because they had plenty of material left).

[JasonM]

Originally Posted by cary

As I said, I know better and should have thought of it on the way down being I grew up driving cars that didn't have enough brakes (think Volkswagen vans with drums). I was engine braking and on an d off the brakes on the way down. The problem was 1) they were biting fine for the modulating I was doing so I never felt them start to fade, and 2) the very bottom is steeper (average grade is something like 17%) and it pushed them from slightly faded to full fade.

I know how to brake and when they are starting to go. I have a lot of track time under my belt from lapping days, where you will overheat any stock brakes, and that was where I learned about upgraded pads, always having clean fluid, etc. My big mistake, beside the brain fade, was leaving and unknown quality pad in the truck (I flushed the fluid when I got the truck, but left the pads because they had plenty of material left).

I agree, I think most of use that or on this board know how to brake, most of us have most likely owned older cruisers with drum brakes or other simialar vehicals with less than perfect brakes. I think the point of all of this is;

1. Some hills are just flat out dangerous to drive, even with engine braking!

2. PM is crutial to any part on the truck, so when we get in these situations we can depend on what the truck was 'designed' to do!

3. Learn from others, sometimes unexpected things happen... in my case a brake pistion stuck. It is important to know how and what to do in the event of a failure.

4. Take safty seriously... I drove that hill many times the same way, with no issues, but that last trip could have been my last. Its to easy not to do things right or develop bad driving habits.

[Skillet]

Originally Posted by BHMCruiser

If you cannot figure out the brake problem, take it to a shop. Don't screw around with your brakes.

x 50,000

[MDarius]

Originally Posted by JasonM

It sounds like I have something wrong with the trans! I will do a flush and fill to see if that helps or fixes the problem. If it still slips, is their anything else I can do, or is it time to take it in or by a new one? What typically is the cause of this kind of slip... the cluch packs?

Don't forget the comments about the linkage. Have you already ruled that out?

[gray]

I would of course have a complete brake system check done;
but my first guess if it went to the floor is a bad master cylinder;
when bad they often have an internal bypass; ie: the fluid
goes around where it is supposed to, so no pressure.

It would not go to the floor just because the brakes are hot; UNLESS
the fluid is totally contaminated ie: with water which would then boil, causing bubbles,
which would then collapse when under pressure,etc.
But if the fluid was that bad, you should have been having some problems before that incident.

Replace the Master cylinder and do a complete complete complete flush;

I stress complete. Why?? Because many mechanics do not do a complete flush;
they just flush it until they either run out of fluid or it looks good to them;

If the fluid is contaminated, I would use two full quart bottles of Valvoline synthetic brake fluid using a pressurized bleeding system.
Make sure they bleed all the fittings, including the screw at the top of the ABS unit on
the drivers side inside fender area.

Good luck.