[knorrena]

I agree with Tirediron too. Furthermore, there is no need to apologize for the size or weight of the truck, it is what it is, and riding the brakes down a 5 mile hill would have likely resulted in the same consequence in almost any other vehicle.

[Tools R Us]

Synthetic fluid is great, but dot 3 works well if fresh and is cheap, so change it often. Brake fluid over time absorbs moisture causing boiling risk and becomes corrosive destroying brake components. At minimum do the turkey baster, master cylinder reservoir empty/refill with each oil change. The best plan is a full flush with fresh fluid once a year. Don’t buy fluid and store it, once the bottle opened, use it and for the next service buy fresh fluid.

Fresh fluid can save your bacon in an event like above, but also can save you $$$. I have rarely seen hydraulic failures in properly maintained brake systems, most in ignored systems. Fresh fluid will greatly extend the hydraulic components life.

[JasonM]

Originally Posted by tntoyota

So?


If you where doing @ 50 mph 3,000+ rpm that might of helped. as slow as I believe you where going this did absolutely nothing to slow its decent!


(T.C) Probably wasn't even above stall! i.e costing like it was in neutral, only up to the breaks to slow...



But I wasn't there and am only basing this on what was said


If you are going to compression break it, do it where you feel it back down its not hurting anything. (tach scares most people) Even in the Red (watch the red line on the tach) It only means power is dropping and you shouldn't be there, not "It's gonna blow!!!" "It's gonna blow!!!" as soon as the needle touches it.

The upper part of the hill were the speed limit is 40 yes I was at 40+ mph. But the lower 2 miles of the hill at a 20mph limit, you are right I probably was not getting any help from engine braking.

Becuase this was the first time this happend in many trips down the hill, I am starting to think I had a pistion stick and that caused the overheating.

[dcFJ]

I had the same problem as you, but luckily mine happened off road going down a grade and I realized early into the grade that the pedal was going to the floor..so the e-brake was used, and my family wasn't with me....turns out the fluid was boiled/moisture contaminated, and the pads were shot. It was on my PM list of stuff to do...I just didn't get to it in time. I changed out the pads, rotors, and drained out all the fluid, put in new fluid, bled the brakes, and the thing will stop on a dime now (well, as well as a 5000+lb SUV can ). Sounds like if you take care of those things...all will be golden again.

[MDarius]

Originally Posted by JasonM

Did you ever notice the ABS kicking in (for anti lock brakes) when the piston was frozen?

The anti-locks worked, but I did not notice them kicking in when they shouldn't. I didn't let the problem last long. I noticed the problem on a long trip to the Oregon coast and had them fixed within a week or so of being home. Might have noticed it in the winter though had it still been a problem.

[tntoyota]

Originally Posted by Grench

Sounds like your transmission linkage may be offset?

On the 94... wouldn't that be OD/D/2/1 on the shifter? I know the '92 is that way. The '96 has D/2/1 on the shifter and the secret OD button on the side of it.

If it were in '1' on the shifter, it should stay in low gear (high range) and shouldn't be able to cross 25mph without driver's help (gas). If it is, 'shifting to 2nd,' then there is either something wrong with the transmission, the linkage, or the driver shifted down twice like on a US car not realizing that they had gone from OD (4 gears) to D (3 gears) to 2 (2 gears) rather than down to 1 (1 gear)?

Can someone verify how the shifter on the '94 is configured?

Could it be the super duper, traction control button, 2nd start ?



could that over ride the shifter

[JasonM]

Originally Posted by knorrena

I agree with Tirediron too. Furthermore, there is no need to apologize for the size or weight of the truck, it is what it is, and riding the brakes down a 5 mile hill would have likely resulted in the same consequence in almost any other vehicle.

Thanks, and I agree with you. I am meary trying to find the cause of this freek one time incodent, as I have had many successful trips down this hill with no issues!

[MDarius]

Originally Posted by JasonM

I will check and most likely change this week end as well!

Just something I have learned from the veteran's here: Use Genuine Toyota parts when you can. I hear mixed reviews of all the aftermarket parts people use, but rarely a bad report of a Toyota part. I'm not sure if Wasatch Cruisers gets a discount at any of the dealerships locally, but CruiserDan can ship you discounted parts today and have them at your door on Friday. If all you're doing is pads you may not save much after shipping, but if you're replacing rotors, lines, pads, pistons, etc. it's worth a call.

[JasonM]

Originally Posted by tntoyota

Could it be the super duper, traction control, button 2nd start ?



could that over ride the shifter

Good point I would like to know this also. Could the ECT and/or OD button over ride also?

[JasonM]

Originally Posted by Tools R Us

Synthetic fluid is great, but dot 3 works well if fresh and is cheap, so change it often. Brake fluid over time absorbs moisture causing boiling risk and becomes corrosive destroying brake components. At minimum do the turkey baster, master cylinder reservoir empty/refill with each oil change. The best plan is a full flush with fresh fluid once a year. Don’t buy fluid and store it, once the bottle opened, use it and for the next service buy fresh fluid.

Fresh fluid can save your bacon in an event like above, but also can save you $$$. I have rarely seen hydraulic failures in properly maintained brake systems, most in ignored systems. Fresh fluid will greatly extend the hydraulic components life.

Thanks, does synthetic fluid have the same problem with absorbing water over time? It probably has a higher heat / failure index also?

[MDarius]

Good questions! When it is in 2nd, and OD is on, will it shift in to 3rd? Same question from 1st to 2nd. technically OD gives it permission to shift up a notch when it hits the magic RPM's, right?

As for the 2nd start, this is designed to bypass 1st gear when starting from a stop, thus reducing torque when taking off and avoiding traction loss. What if you are just driving around and hit a high torque situation? Will it jump to 2nd?

Somebody get IdahoDoug!

[aey_bee_see]

Originally Posted by MDarius

Good questions! When it is in 2nd, and OD is on, will it shift in to 3rd? Same question from 1st to 2nd. technically OD gives it permission to shift up a notch when it hits the magic RPM's, right?

I believe that OD shifts only to 4th from 3rd when engaged.

[CJF]

Originally Posted by MDarius

Good questions! When it is in 2nd, and OD is on, will it shift in to 3rd? Same question from 1st to 2nd. technically OD gives it permission to shift up a notch when it hits the magic RPM's, right?

As for the 2nd start, this is designed to bypass 1st gear when starting from a stop, thus reducing torque when taking off and avoiding traction loss. What if you are just driving around and hit a high torque situation? Will it jump to 2nd?

Somebody get IdahoDoug!

Don't need Doug for this one; I'll bet the owner's manual addresses every question you've got there.

Curtis

Oh, and except for when the tranny is in 3rd, it's irrelevant whether the OD button is pushed. OD button simply puts 4th gear into play when needed.

[Tools R Us]

Originally Posted by tntoyota

Could it be the super duper, traction control, button 2nd start ?



could that over ride the shifter

On my junk, the shifter overrides the 2nd start button. With it on and in drive it won't shift first, move the shifter to first and it shifts first.

[FirstToy]

Originally Posted by JasonM

Thanks, does synthetic fluid have the same problem with absorbing water over time? It probably has a higher heat / failure index also?

Valvoline Synpower has a dry boiling point of 500F.
Toyota brake fluild is DOT3, not sure what the dry boiling point is- bottle says "super heavy duty use"

wet boiling points of fluid can be over 250F lower than fresh fluid... new fluid can make a big difference I think.

I don't know if syn absorbs water at the same rate

[MDarius]

Originally Posted by CJF

Don't need Doug for this one; I'll bet the owner's manual addresses every question you've got there.

Curtis

Owners manual?? Since I came to mud I forgot I even had one! I guess I've gotten lazy. You're probably right though. A little searching goes a long ways.

I really just like Doug's technical jargon, pretty graphs and pictures. He explains it all so well!!

[Grench]

Looking back through the threads, I think I understand more.

The truck was moving 20-30 mph on a 10% grade in 2nd gear and burnt up the brakes. right?

IMHO at those speeds it should have been in 1st.

There is some question as to what speed the truck was going when limited to which gear and if the truck in question can stay in 1st. There was an issue with a truck doing this about a year ago where during off road low gear hill descents the vehicle would not stay in 1st gear but would 'kick up' to 2nd despite the shifter being in the right notch. IIRC it turned out to be a shifter linkage issue or a transmission solenoid. I can't remember which. Is this jogging anyone else's memory?

I have never dared go down a steep enough hill fast enough to engine brake in overdrive.
For me, engine braking in 3rd happens around 60-65mph on stock gearing and 33" tires.
For me, engine braking in 2nd happens around 40-45mph on stock gearing and 33" tires.
For me, engine braking in 1st happens around 20mph on stock gearing and 33" tires.

[MDarius]

Grench: Does the CDL button change any of that? I don't imagine it does, just asking.

[Tools R Us]

http://www.afcoracing.com/tech_pages/fluid.shtml

http://www.aa1car.com/library/bfluid.htm

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...fluid_1a.shtml

[Darwood]

Originally Posted by Grench

I have never dared go down a steep enough hill fast enough to engine brake in overdrive.

Something tells me that you'll hit terminal velocity in the 80 before you can engine brake in overdrive.

[cary]

I continue to use and recommend ATE Type 200 or Superblue fluid if you can get them. The Wet boiling point is 388f and the dry is 536f, higher than just about any fluid out there that is not a straight race fluid. When I overheated and faded my brakes (blued the rotors and everything) I continued to have a nice solid pedal, no boiling of the fluid.

[Grench]

Originally Posted by MDarius

Grench: Does the CDL button change any of that? I don't imagine it does, just asking.

CDL/no CDL is irrelevant until wheels start to slip which is unlikely in engine braking in an 80.

What happens when wheels start to slip with ABS/no CDL/no is a whole other topic of discussion and not relevant to this thread. Search if you want to know way more than you want to know if you know what I mean. :-)

[MDarius]

I do know what you mean! That's why I kept it simple. One question, one answer, end of very long discussion! I read up on all that last year and my brain started to leak.



Now someone is going to tell me to replace the felt and rubber seal in my ears to stop the leaking...but a little grease on the outside is good!

[CJF]

Originally Posted by Grench

CDL/no CDL is irrelevant until wheels start to slip which is unlikely in engine braking in an 80.

What happens when wheels start to slip with ABS/no CDL/no is a whole other topic of discussion and not relevant to this thread. Search if you want to know way more than you want to know if you know what I mean. :-)

What the heck was his name? It's not coming to mind.

Just don't say it three times!

[CappyKD]

Originally Posted by cary

I continue to use and recommend ATE Type 200 or Superblue fluid if you can get them. The Wet boiling point is 388f and the dry is 536f, higher than just about any fluid out there that is not a straight race fluid. When I overheated and faded my brakes (blued the rotors and everything) I continued to have a nice solid pedal, no boiling of the fluid.

X2 on the ATE Superblue. Great Stuff.

[turbocruiser]

Originally Posted by cary

I continue to use and recommend ATE Type 200 or Superblue fluid if you can get them. The Wet boiling point is 388f and the dry is 536f, higher than just about any fluid out there that is not a straight race fluid. When I overheated and faded my brakes (blued the rotors and everything) I continued to have a nice solid pedal, no boiling of the fluid.

Holy Crap Cary! I thought that you knew so much about brakes (and I knew so little)! You cannot even use the things without screwing them up!
By the way, I think that drilled and slotted rotors would have helped your above situation some, but, ... , a better driver would have helped more!

[Bearcat80]

Originally Posted by JasonM

Will the 100 series pads fit with out modification?

One problem with this hill is the bottom 2miles has a 20mph speed limit, at that speed 2nd does not slow you down and when it is in first it just keeps shifting into second.

I had to adjust my linkage for this problem. The rod attaches to the tranny on the passenger side, put it in L and loosen the linkage and add a little bit more length on the shaft(maybe 1/8") so that it pushes the transmission lever further forward into L. Tighten it and try it out, adjust more if needed.

[IdahoDoug]

Couple comments. If the shifter's in 1st, the tranny should stay in 1st no matter what regarding various switches. I think Jason's truck is a 93/4 which has no 2nd start button like the sissy 95+ models do. At that grade and looking for that low speed I'd have been in 1st. The advice on using the emergency brake on the way down is not good - the emergency (drum) pair of brakes on the rear axle should only be used in service brake failure to get the truck stopped, or for parking. They're not built or sized for continuous dragging down a hill. I'm assuming this truck is stock tires and no lift.

I have a short 10-12% grade around here and that's eye poppin steep for a paved road. We use it for hill climb training on our road bikes (ouch) and FYI you should be in 1st to control speed on something like that. Obviously, traveling this road will put a heat load on your tranny as well, so you should ensure you have a tranny full of fresh fluid.

Out.

[alex4640]

Originally Posted by JasonM

I will check and most likely change this week end as well!

When you're under there, check one more thing.

Sometimes tire shops with inexperienced techs will inadvertently bend up the back plate behind the rotor. This back plate is critical to proper airflow around the rotors and calipers.

I had my right front caliper blow an O-ring just two days after a tire rotation. The O-rings and dust boots were fried (extra crispy) from the over heating. I did not even notice the bent back plate until I had rebuild the caliper and was putting the wheel back on.

[TrouserChili]

I had a similar experience on my BJ70, turned out to be a seized/sticking piston. It was dragging on my rear drum and boiled the brake fluid causing air in the system. Rim was so hot that i would spit at it and it would sizzle. Floored the brakes no response until i pumped about five times.