[FirstToy]

Well it's getting there. Still not done but the big mile marker of installing shocks got done today thanks to Rick (Inverness) and Dale.

Still to do- bumpstops, 4x4Labs relay & tierod w 1 ton tre's, front swaybar drop...probably other stuff.

I have to mess w/ the front 7100s b/c Bilstein randomly welded the angle of the resivoir tube 10 degrees higher...dammit! If Bilstein had a vagina, I'd punch it. Hard. No real verdict on the shocks, but will update w/ I get some offroad time on them.

What we have-
7100's w/ 400/100 valving. Custom mounts, we (Mike, Rick, me) take credit for the cool lower rear shock mount- but Mike discovered we didn't re-invent the wheel! It's been done in JPN...

Slee 4 springs (they are awesome) and 1" spacers.
Slee panhard adj/control arm adj/ dc driveshaft
Other Slee stuff I can't think of...

Also check out Rick's photos on installation
http://www.flickr.com/photos/80_on_i...7600184098497/

Here are some pics-

Front lower mount


rear lower mount


ready to install


front shock


rear shock


full stuffage


front driver's side

[TroutRunner]

Very sweet setup. I like the mounts that you guy's fabbed up.

What was your decision process to get to the reservoir shock versus the 5125?

Can't wait to hear the results after some good road and trail time.

TR

[Cruiserdrew]

Nice pics James. Did you guys start with C channel to make the mounts?

[450 DUDE]

Thats a beauitiful setup.
Those 7100's and Slee springs are crazy sexy! Daddy!
Im very courious what the day to day difference between the 5125 & 7100?


ken

[concretejungle]

sweet. I always found it funny that those beautiful bilstein's with all the polish and shine, use cheap ass hose clamps to hold the reservoir on....

[desertdude]

Nice pioneering work... I can see the line forming already

I look forward to hearing about the ride (with the 7100's)

[FirstToy]

Andy, yes- here is a picture- we fabbed them out of square stock. That is what we had on-hand. C-channel would work too. Rick has an excellent facility so we could fab to our heart's desire
If you look at Rick's photos, you can see more details too


why 7100?
The important thing is the valving needs to be appropriate for the truck. I don't think the 5100 series even comes 400/100 - construction materials and internal design is different too. Also, the 7100 is not an emulsion shock.

custom valving-you can do yourself, completely owner-rebuildable-basically lifetime units, fade-free...

Yeah the hose clamps are cheap but I think billet clamps are in our future! hehe

Note we did Upper heim/lower bushing. W/ this setup, we have absolutely no binding of the shock (as w/ stock post mounts). Only limited by links & bumpstops

[TroutRunner]

Could someone explain valving in the 400/100 sense versus 255/70? Benefits? Downsides?

Also, what is entailed in rebuilding or servicing a shock like the 7100 on your own?

Do you have more pics of the upper heim joint? Ricks page gives a hint, but I was wondering how you built these.

Thanks,

TR

[FirstToy]

x00/x00 is the rebound/compression valving. the lower numbers are softer/designed for lighter vehicles. For example a stock 80 will take softer valving than a fully armored/lifted one.

The 7100's come w/ heims. It is a uniball that allows a lot of articulation and no binding. The downside is that it can transmit more noise into the cabin as bushings dampen those out. (altho I haven't noticed any extra noise yet)
We used bushings on one end/heim on the top.

As w/ a SAW,FOX, etc. The 7100 uses valve stacks (thin washers) that you add/take out to adjust the valving.
I believe the only really specialized tool you will need is a nitrogen tank (or go to a place and have them 'charge' the shocks) 7100 has a schraeder valve for easy charging.

Here is the picture of the upper uniball joint

[Hanna Quality]

nice work James, great pics along with the writeup

[FirstToy]

Thanks Ken, thanks Pasquale, 450 Dude

Here is more detail and specifics on how we did it by Rick

Bilstein shock install on the 80



Mike, James and I teamed up and designed, manufactured and installed
shock brackets with shocks for our respective 80's. In addition,
James and I installed Slee's 4" lift with 1" spacers on both of our
trucks. What can I say, 4" was not enough and 6" was, well... too big.
James and Mike did quit a lot of research on shocks and mounting
hardware. With Ali's help, plus the given compression/extension
parameters we decided on Bilstein 7100s with 400/100 valving (MDL#
AK7112SB99-400/100).



Shock Size

Requirements for Mike's truck differed a bit, so some descriptions
aren't applicable.

With the sway bars off and the truck flexed, the rear shock dimensions
were 18-1/2" compressed and 30" extended. The top rear shock eye-to-pin
converter bracket reduces the distance by 1-1/4" and the bottom rear
eye-to-eye converter bracket reduces distance by 1-1/2". Added together
there is a 2-3/4" reduction of space between the shock mounting points.
Therefore, the shock requirements were 18-1/2" - 2-3/4" = 15-3/4"
compression space and 30" - 2-3/4" = 27-1/4" extension space. After
looking at manufactures spec's James and I decided on the 12" short
body shocks. Mike used 14" shocks.



I bought them here and at the time they had them in stock with the
desired valving:
http://www.eshocks.com/bil_ORvh.asp?...Index=4Q1&Man\
f=All&SubChar=Q
<http://www.eshocks.com/bil_ORvh.asp?..._Index=4Q1&Ma\
nf=All&SubChar=Q>



Converter Brackets

Both the pin-to-eye and the eye-to-eye converter brackets are made from
2" x 2" x 3/16" tube steel x 1-1/2" long and eight are needed. One face
of the tube steel has a welded seam. This side of the tube will be cut
off to create a "U" bracket, it's important to keep this in
mind when laying out the holes.



Pin to Eye bracket:

1) In all the brackets drill two 1/2" holes for the shock eyebolt. In
four of the brackets drill a 1/2" mounting bolthole (this is at the base
of the U).

2) Cut two chamfers to allow for shock rotation.

3) Cut off the welded seam face to create a U shape.

4) In the mounting hole, a 1/2" x 1-1/2" bolt was welded in.

5) A washer was welded at the base of the four of the bolts to insure
that the new front brackets remain centered in the trucks mounting
holes.

6) The stock top rear mount was replaced altogether with a 5/16" x
1-1/2 x 6" long steel flat bar.

Holes were drilled to match the stock bracket including the slotted
hole. A "U" bracket was welded, as close to the slotted hole as
possible to allow for the mounting bolt, in addition, the bracket was
rotated 20 deg to allow for hose clearance.



Mike created one of a kind custom rear upper mounts that bolt above the
chassis.



Eye-to-Eye bracket:

A thick wall pipe was reamed out so that the I.D. was 3/4" (Later we
found the rear panhard tube, a cut-off from the Slee adjuster, is the
correct size). The tube was cut to 1.5" long. It was welded to the
above-described U bracket, so that the holes axis are at 90 deg to each
other.



Shock Bushings

Bilstein provides heim joints on their shocks. We decided to use
urethane bushing on the bottom shock mounts and keep the heim at the
top. Some of the reasoning was that the heim joints can be noisy and
with water, dirt and mud so prevalent at the bottom of the shock it
seems sensible to use the urethane. Time will tell. The urethane
bushing has a 12mm ID steel sleeve, which needs to be reamed to 1/2".
The urethane joints fit perfectly in the new brackets, the heim joints
are 5/8" wide and the space in the new shock brackets is 1-5/8",
so, two 1/2" spacer bushings were cut to fill up the space. Bronze
bushings used as spacers would do just fine.

Urethane bushings:
http://www.offroadwarehouse.com/Stor...p!ProdID!15917
<http://www.offroadwarehouse.com/Store_ViewProdDetail.asp!ProdID!15917>

(This link is for a Fox shock, call for the Bilstein version.)



Shock Installation

1) Both the front inner fenders were cut out with a 3" hole saw to
allow for the reservoir hose clearance. A plywood template was used to
locate and drill the hole.

2) The shocks were compressed and wired in the closed position.

3) Brackets were installed on the shocks, along with the urethane
bushings and spacer bushings.

4) Install a shock and locate and install the reservoir on the shock.
Check for hose and reservoir for clearances. With the reservoir on
shock, the hose can be adjusted by twisting the reservoir.



Conclusion

There is none. With the truck flexed, the rear shocks were at the
extension and compression limits. Lowered bump stops and limit straps
will be required, if wheeling without the rear sway bars. In the next
few weeks bump stops designs will be looked at. The first real test will
be this coming up weekend to the East Mojave, but I think it will take
quite a few trips and various trail conditions to reach a conclusion. I
would like thank to Dale for lending a helping hand.



Installation photos will be here and added to in the next few days:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/80_on_i...7600184098497/

[desertdude]

James , I Really appreciate all the impressive work you and the "crew" have put into this. Thanks for posting all the details and bringing all this "new $hit to light"

[FirstToy]

LOL
the dude abides... just don't spill the beverage, man

Here is a good pic of full stuffage w/o bumpstop drops- tire contacts wheelwell/frame rail. It will need about 4-6" bumpstop extension.


almost forgot to mention we are running Hanna Quality 1.0 beta version Caster Correction Plates

[IBCRUSN]

Nice setup. I considered the 7100s from eShocks but don't have the $$$ with the wife wanting to buy a house this year. A couple notes though...

Originally Posted by FirstToy

Front lower mount


rear lower mount

You should consider replacing those plain nuts and split washers for metal lock nuts or even Ny-loks. I would never trust split washers w/ plain nuts on something that is prone to high vibration. They might help the thread engagement too it not a slightly longer bolt would help.

Originally Posted by FirstToy

Here is a good pic of full stuffage w/o bumpstop drops- tire contacts wheelwell/frame rail. It will need about 4-6" bumpstop extension.

Dumb question; I see you have the adjustable panhard, is the axle centered? Have you considered 1" or 1.5" wheel spacers? Try a set on the rear and retest. If it works add them to the front. There is no sense adding huge bump stops for only a little rubbing at full stuff. In the 1st post, 2nd pic it appears there is room outboard that spacers may help you out. If it works you might only need a 3" bump stop spacer. Of course this is all dependent on how much travel you have left on the rear shocks.

[Box Rocket]

Nice work. Those are good looking shocks. I've always liked the bilsteins. I had 5100's on my first minitruck and 5150s with the piggyback reservioron my last minitruck and absolutely love them. I wish I could afford some 7100s for my 80, but it would be overkill right now since it's main duty is my wifes daily driver.

Anyway, looks great and good work.

[concretejungle]

dumb question alert.....

For bumpstopping; it appears to me that there are two bumpstops, one in the spring and one mounted on the frame. So would you lower both or just the bumpstop on the frame?

[FirstToy]

--Lockwashers- good eye, they are temporary. I didn't get enough of the locknuts (so Rick had some splitwashers on hand) but will be picking up some at the store this week.

--Axles are centered.
Actually, Rick pointed out the same thing- so good eye again, we took those pics to show that exact thing
I do have room to spacer out the wheel and stuff some more but I don't want to use them. Dropping the frame bumpstop will be insurance for the shock... at that point, I think we had about 2" left on the shock? gotta double check that.

CJ,
I plan on the frame bumpstops, not the one inside the coil. I'm not sure why there are 2...

[IBCRUSN]

Originally Posted by FirstToy

Dropping the frame bumpstop will be insurance for the shock... at that point, I think we had about 2" left on the shock? gotta double check that.

I understand where you're coming from. With the extra 2" of travel have you considered making new upper shock mounts to take advantage of the additional 2" of down travel?

Originally Posted by FirstToy

CJ,
I plan on the frame bumpstops, not the one inside the coil. I'm not sure why there are 2...

I hear ya there. Kind of silly to be redundant in the bump stop dept. especially on the front. The fronts could be spares for the rear in a pinch. Maybe the extra bumps are for those crazy folks down under that travel the bush at 80mph?

[Nay]

Originally Posted by TroutRunner

Could someone explain valving in the 400/100 sense versus 255/70? Benefits? Downsides?

Also, what is entailed in rebuilding or servicing a shock like the 7100 on your own?

Do you have more pics of the upper heim joint? Ricks page gives a hint, but I was wondering how you built these.

Thanks,

TR

More importantly, Slee's 4" coils were presumably designed to work with the OME L shocks, so you would want to keep your valving in that ballpark (not sure on OME L valving as a reference, though). I have heard that the standard 5125 255/70 valving is a bit "bouncy" with Slee and OME coils, which suggests less dampening than OME L. So an increase probably makes sense.

There is no set standard - shocks are a spring dampener, so ideally they are tuned to the springs as different spring designs and rates require a different amount of dampening (as well as different types of vehicle builds in terms of added weight). That's always been the value of OME - the springs and shocks are designed as a system for the vehicle. The FOR 3.5" kit is much more lightly damped (using 5125's) due to the spring design. You wouldn't put 400/100 in conjunction with those springs.

The upper heim is standard on 7100's if somebody hasn't pointed that out...

[IBCRUSN]

Per the tech support/sales guy(forgot his name) in Cali the 400/100 valving was originally setup for Range Rovers (ie. heavy pig as well). This valving can be had in the 5150 series if you special order your shocks and pay an additional ~$70/shock. The price of the shock and special valving fee ends up real close to 7100s that are rebuildable yadda yadda yadda.

[FirstToy]

7100's have heims standard top & bottom. We popped out the bottoms and replaced w/ bushings.

400/100 is what I would try even w/ OME heavies

7100 rebound/compression are independently tuneable I believe. So you can make it softer/firmer on one end rather than both.
Anyway, for the effort of fabbing, I wasn't staying with an emulsion shock. If so, I would just get new OME's. They are cheap, a good shock, and bolt-in.

[84runner]

James,

Excellent write up and detail. I'm in the middle of doing a similar set up to what you guys did, (4" Slee's and Bilstein 7100's). I have the springs and weld in adjustable panhards ready to go soon, and then plan on taking flex measurements to see what length shock to go with. I have a few Q's for you;

As far as your rear lower eye/eye adapter goes; Was the only reason you went with them because you chose to do the urethane mounts? Otherwise you could mount the 7100 heim joints to the factory mount, right? Or was there any clearence issues with using the stock lower mount?

[FirstToy]

12" short body. Mike has 14" and it requires an exponential amount of work, but you know Mike's truck! It must conquer and devestate all!!

Rear Lower mount:
- heim is too small to fit over the OEM (factory) mount.
- If you push out the heim and use a bushing over the OEM mount, the bushing will be too thin and disintegrate.
- If you use a metal spacer in lieu of poly, you will have some shock binding and possibly that will damage or stress the shock and/or mount

mounting variations-
- the mount we came up with (which I think is uber cool ) allows for no shock binding, bushing or heim mount (meaning we could have left a heim in there). And, if we carry 1 front/ 1 rear old shock, stock OME shock can be mounted back in a trail emergency

- you can cut off the OEM lower mount post and basically weld an adapter there and slide a bolt thru (like the upper adapter). That is another option. this would allow you to drop the mount location down a few inches if you have a longer shock (LandcruiserPhil did this)

*of note- Rick had the foresight to engineer it w/ all the same size bolts in mind. This way, carrying trail spares and fixes are minimal and easy. I really think it is a brilliant, simple tip.

-The real difficulty is at the top side w/ hose clearance. So pay careful attention to it and if you come up w/ more ideas there, I think we would really love to hear them. thanks!

[FirstToy]

Originally Posted by IBCRUSN

I understand where you're coming from. With the extra 2" of travel have you considered making new upper shock mounts to take advantage of the additional 2" of down travel?

sorry I missed this comment earlier-

yes I had many sketches and ideas over the past year or so- the problem w/ raising the mount is the minimal clearance between the shock mount and body. There isn't much there and not enough for a resivoir shock. We even toyed w/ mounting upside down but that is beyond stupid w/ the resivoir hose at the bottom-very exposed to elements.

Pay attention to Clownmidget's upper shock mount design- he is coming up with something quite cool for that problem.

[84runner]

Doh!, I should probably know my dimensions of my shock mounts first!

So, you don't have any of those top rear shock mounts laying around that you want to get rid of, do you? Heck, I'd even be willing to pay, (what I mean by that is I'd definatelly be willing to pay)!

You guys should seriously sell some.

[IBCRUSN]

Originally Posted by FirstToy

I had many sketches and ideas over the past year or so- the problem w/ raising the mount is the minimal clearance between the shock mount and body. There isn't much there and not enough for a resivoir shock. We even toyed w/ mounting upside down but that is beyond stupid w/ the resivoir hose at the bottom-very exposed to elements.

Pay attention to Clownmidget's upper shock mount design- he is coming up with something quite cool for that problem.

Sorry my explanation wasn't as clear as it was in my head. What I was trying to get at was if at full stuff you have ~2" of shock travel remaining make or modify mounts that lower the upper mount. That way at full stuff on compressed bumps you'll have ~.5" of shock travel remaining. In turn you'll get 1.5" of additional down travel. Sort of a follow on to this thread:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.p...+mount+spacers

I didn't see what P/N 7100s you used but the mount above the frame idea would work well if you went with a 2" longer shock that you really needed. It's very tight without a body lift to get a decent mount up there. With a 1" there is plenty of room to make nearly anything work. Something like FJBen did in this thread:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/112634-homebrew-rear-shock-extensions.html

I made a set of something similar out of square box tube but didn't end using them (the 7100s would have been a hard sell to the misses this season). If you're interested I can take a pic if I can remember where I put them.

I'll keep my eyes open for Clowns work.

[clownmidget]

Originally Posted by 84runner

As far as your rear lower eye/eye adapter goes; Was the only reason you went with them because you chose to do the urethane mounts? Otherwise you could mount the 7100 heim joints to the factory mount, right? Or was there any clearence issues with using the stock lower mount?

James - get to the shop so we can finish these! The look great

the lower rear shock mount stud is approx. 0.75" in diameter (OD). The ID of the Bilstein and Fox eyes are only ~7/8" so you can't realistically make it work. This was attempted by Ali by reaming out various bushings but they all eventually got chewed up. Another option would have been to just cut off the stock stud and put a 9/16" or 1/2" stud on there and be done. The stock stud does have a pretty substantial through-shaft going all the way back for ~2" so we favored leaving that there and working around that constraint.

It ended up not being important though as the shocks James and Rick chose for their 5" lift worked out to be fine for what they had between the upper and lower mounts under compression and extension.

There isn't another 1.5" of droop, extra compression, etc. in there. If the tire is completely stuffed, the shock is essentially completely compressed. I think James' tires are hitting the frame a bit earlier than Rick's so that's holding up that last little bit of compression.

Having remote reservoir shocks on the rear is definitely a huge pain in the a$$ to mount up properly and it may well be worth just doing some 5100-series or similar. If you do a mount above the stock mount location (ie, on top of the plate versus under it) you will be faced with how to get your remote reservior through the center hole, your bracket and then properly mount the reservoir to something. This took Rick, Dale and I a huge amount of time and more than a few design attempts to get it right. The results are great but by the end I was ready to mount them upside down

[clownmidget]

Originally Posted by IBCRUSN

You should consider replacing those plain nuts and split washers for metal lock nuts or even Ny-loks. I would never trust split washers w/ plain nuts on something that is prone to high vibration.

You mean you wouldn't trust every nut on your truck as it came from Toyota?

[IBCRUSN]

Originally Posted by IBCRUSN

You should consider replacing those plain nuts and split washers for metal lock nuts or even Ny-loks. I would never trust split washers w/ plain nuts on something that is prone to high vibration. They might help the thread engagement too it not a slightly longer bolt would help.

It wasn't good grammar but you missed a key statement when you quoted me. I corrected it.

Originally Posted by clownmidget

You mean you wouldn't trust every nut on your truck as it came from Toyota?

I fail to recall where Toyota used split washers and plain nuts in vibration prone areas on the truck, please enlighten me.

[FirstToy]

Originally Posted by landtank

Ken must have pulled out all the design stops on this one. How long do you think it took him to add the "H"?

Lasercut so however long it took to press this key: H
or are you being sarcastic and busting balls?