[yoda-g3]

Hey all,

Been doing a lot of research on this and wanted to run my conclusions by you guys to see if I'm on the right page. The hard thing is that I bought the rig with the current lift on it, so I don't really have any measurements to compare before and after ride heights.


Current Suspension Setup:
OME 2.5" Lift + Caster Correction Kit (Purchased from MaF back in '01)
Front - OME 851 + 10mm Packer + N70 Shocks + Heavy Duty Swaybar
Rear - OME 863 + 10mm Packer + N71 Shocks + Heavy Duty Swaybar
BFG AT 295/75/16's

Cargo / Weight:
Front - ARB + Sidebars + Winch + Dual Batt + Turbo junk
Back - Kaymar + Spare + Jerry Can + Hi-Lift + Aussie Drawers + Gear

Impressions:
Rides better than I could ever hope for, super smooth over wash boards, corners great. Doesn't seem to sit as high as a 2.5" should (check out pic below), guessing that's due to a loooot of added weight. I also have a bottoming out problem when hitting bumps in the dunes. Just overall doesn't have the clearance I'm looking for. I do plan on keeping the current tires for a couple more years, and am not opposed to 35's when they need replaced.

Now I know that my current front springs are rated at 2.5" assuming 0-110lbs which I'm sure I'm over, and my rears are rated at 2.5" assuming 200-440lbs, which I'm guessing I'm in the ball park. Even with added tongue weight when towing I'm pretty happy with the limited rear end sag.

Lift Plans:
I think I'm going to start with the fronts so I don't get ahead of myself trying to keep her level.

Front - Ditch the packers, go with 850J's and 2" poly bump stops.
Back - 2" Poly bump stops, and hopefully be able to level her out with spacers or packers. Additionally I may move the Hi-Lift to the front due to departure angle issues... That's gotta help shift some weight.

Dilemas:
I'd like to keep the current shocks, are the J's going to be too long for them (354-614)?

Will my current caster correction kit keep me in spec? I'm assuming the J's will still settle a little and put me in the 3" range once I ditch the current packers.

Any other pit falls you can see?

Thanks!

(I'll try to dig up a better pic on more level ground.)

[alkaline747trio]

For your weight, a slee 4" kit wouldn't hurt, but I would definately go with the Slee 4" springs in the front over the Js, the Js wont net you the lift that it appears you are hoping for. And when you say poly bumpstops, I'm assuming you mean those air bumps?

And if it sets a little rear saggy, then J's in the rear would work well. Your caster is going to be low with anything more than regular 850s, the Slee arms are big coin but work EXTREMELY well, are beefy, and the handling is great, and with 4" of lift, a DC drive shaft with the arms isn't usually (although it is possible you would need it) necessary.

[yoda-g3]

Originally Posted by alkaline747trio

For your weight, a slee 4" kit wouldn't hurt, but I would definately go with the Slee 4" springs in the front over the Js, the Js wont net you the lift that it appears you are hoping for. And when you say poly bumpstops, I'm assuming you mean those air bumps?

And if it sets a little rear saggy, then J's in the rear would work well. Your caster is going to be low with anything more than regular 850s, the Slee arms are big coin but work EXTREMELY well, are beefy, and the handling is great, and with 4" of lift, a DC drive shaft with the arms isn't usually (although it is possible you would need it) necessary.

These are the bump stop spacers I was thinking of: Link

I've toyed with going the whole 4" route, but that is a lot more money then what I want to spend right now ($300 vs $2000). Though that is an interesting point on just starting with the 4" springs. I've always been a solid OME fan, but I might start doing a little digging on what caster and drive shaft experiences people are having with the Slee ones.

[alkaline747trio]

If you don't have L shocks, and aren't going to run 35's yet, I would skip the bumpstop pucks as they will have you bottoming out more often (Slee's coils are stiffer so it would happen less with them). You can get away without a lot of things on the slee list, and some stuff can be made easily.

My opinion:
Slee 4" Front/863J's or 864s Rear (only if your current springs aren't enough)
Pro-comp 10-12" shocks w/ adapters
Bumpstop Puck Spacers Front/2" Sqaure Tubing Rear
Slee Arms (Gen 2 if you can find them and cant afford the current Gen 3s)
Slee Brake Lines
Remove Front Sway Bar (or buy Slee's blocks)
Cut/Sleeve Rear Sway Bar Bracket (or buy the Slee or MAF kit)
Panhards should be fine for a while, but eventually getting the adjusters would be a good idea
Rear Control arms should also be fine

[landtank]

I'd get 30mm spacers for the front springs and then install a caster plate.

You'll need a caster plate to correct the caster and it will rotate the axle quite a bit in doing so. That rotation will better align the spring perches and make that spring work better.

At this point you'll be basically at a 850J height and can better analyze what you might want to do. If you decide to move on to the Slee's then the caster is ready to go and only out the spacers which can be sold. And if you like where you are you've saved some coin.

[yoda-g3]

Originally Posted by landtank

I'd get 30mm spacers for the front springs and then install a caster plate.

You'll need a caster plate to correct the caster and it will rotate the axle quite a bit in doing so. That rotation will better align the spring perches and make that spring work better.

At this point you'll be basically at a 850J height and can better analyze what you might want to do. If you decide to move on to the Slee's then the caster is ready to go and only out the spacers which can be sold. And if you like where you are you've saved some coin.

This wouldn't be one of the caster plates you sell would it.

Now if I already have the OME caster kit installed will I really need the plate? Or will the two of them combined over correct the caster? I'm just figuring that if the 30mm spacer puts me back to the 2.5" the OME kit was designed for, then I should be fine. Or does the OME kit do a marginal job of correcting it to where it really needs to be?

Also would I really be at the 850J height when you take the softer rate of the current 851's into account? If I kept the packer that would add 40mm total, I figured the added height and stiffness of the J's would be at least double that. But you're right, it would give me a cheap starting point.

[xiongkx@yahoo.com]

i would with slee 4 inch kit.. i am very happy with it .
http://www.sleeoffroad.com/products/80_suspension.htm

[landtank]

Originally Posted by yoda-g3

This wouldn't be one of the caster plates you sell would it.

Now if I already have the OME caster kit installed will I really need the plate? Or will the two of them combined over correct the caster? I'm just figuring that if the 30mm spacer puts me back to the 2.5" the OME kit was designed for, then I should be fine. Or does the OME kit do a marginal job of correcting it to where it really needs to be?

Also would I really be at the 850J height when you take the softer rate of the current 851's into account? If I kept the packer that would add 40mm total, I figured the added height and stiffness of the J's would be at least double that. But you're right, it would give me a cheap starting point.

I'd be happy to sell you a set of mine but I was talking generally.

When I was working through this same stuff I would look for ways to minimize risk/expense while finding my way. That was all that I was trying to offer you.

The OME bushings don't really play well with caster plates and you would be better off with stock bushings anyway.

One thing you might consider is getting your hub to flare measurement and post it up with what accessories you have so others can tell you where they are and with what springs.

TOY350 just posted his height in a thread after installing my plates and I think he has 850Js on but I'm not sure.

[Walking Eagle]

I think Landtank has a reasonable approach.

As far as not going to L's when you go to J's, you don't have to go to L's with J's, you will just have an inch less droop and an inch more uptravel. Now if you're doing high speeds alot and maxing out on extension alot, you may ultimately damage the shocks I suppose, but since they're nothing really keeping you from overextending the shocks with L's either, I don't know if you'll really end up damaging them or not.

If you go J's and then to 35's, you'll have to bumpstop - around 2". At which point you're loosing two inches of travel (uptravel to be specific). You can space the shocks back down that 2" and gain 2" of down travel. I think L's have about an inch more travel than the normal shocks, but with stock mounts and 2" bumpstops you're loosing .75"-1.25" of that anyway (rear-front).

It's certainly easier to just say "Go with XYZ lift kit", cause the stuff is presumambly ment to work together. Piece mealing like you're trying is sometimes financially more palitable though.

Another option to the J's is OME 4" comp. Springs.

[Nay]

If you don't want to go full replacement, you are really suited to a set of OME heavies on the front while keeping the mediums in the rear. Looking at your pics with 295 tires, the rear ride height is perfect, so just add the heavy springs up front and sell your mediums.

Keep in mind that the OME medium kit is 50mm. That is a hair less than 2". Given that there is presumed weight in OME applications, which you have, about 50mm should be your final ride height in static load up front and when fully loaded in the rear.

If you really want to bring the entire application higher and have the expectation of your 3 ton rig not bottoming out running sand dunes, then you need to ditch this idea of tinkering and build the rig for that purpose. That is going to mean more lift and all the stuff that comes with it, and there isn't much reason in believing you won't ultimately need more caster correction and at least some of the stuff that Slee sells in the 4" kit. Whether you choose OME comp springs or Slee springs or FOR springs or whatever, that's not the issue...going much higher than what you have will cause changes to your rigs geometry that you are going to need to address (OME designs to this limit on all of their applications that are sold as a kit).

In other words, you are faced with a question: do you want to really go beyond the basic OME setup to have a more seriously built rig, or do you want to simply tinker with OME to address your front to rear weight and lift height?

If it is the former, this won't be a $200 or $300 solution no matter how much you try to convince yourself. If it is the latter, you can either do the extra spacer and keep the medium coils or go heavies. I'd go heavies, because the longer coil will have a higher effective spring rate. Either way, figure out what you want to do and design it from there, or you'll just be buying stuff for the classified section.

[yoda-g3]

Originally Posted by landtank

I'd be happy to sell you a set of mine but I was talking generally.

When I was working through this same stuff I would look for ways to minimize risk/expense while finding my way. That was all that I was trying to offer you.

The OME bushings don't really play well with caster plates and you would be better off with stock bushings anyway.

One thing you might consider is getting your hub to flare measurement and post it up with what accessories you have so others can tell you where they are and with what springs.

TOY350 just posted his height in a thread after installing my plates and I think he has 850Js on but I'm not sure.

Hehe, I was just giving you a hard time. I really appreciate all the advice.

For starters my hub to flare measurements are as follows.
DS-Front = 22"
PS-Front = 22"
DS-Rear = 23.25"
PS-Rear = 23.75"
(My accessories are at the top post if you want to compare.)

Thank you for pointing me to TOY350's thread, he's running pretty similar gear in the front and his front measurements are right at 23". Only weight difference is he's got synthetic line and single batt.

I have some caster numbers from an alignment last month that can get me a baseline to go off of. I think that this has me still leaning to getting the 850J's and ditching the 10mm's, with the intent of getting the caster dialed in the not so distant future. Since this rig isn't more than a 2 mile a day commuter, and goes on only a few long distance trips a year, I feel like I have a little more time on my hands to get the caster dialed in. I just don't want to commit to one kind of caster correction setup, or adjust them to a certain degree just to find out I'm going to go a more aggressive route later if I can help it.

I like your idea of 80mm spacers, but for what I can sell my 851's for vs what those run, I might as well get the 850J's and have the better spring rate for only another $70. Also since the 850J's are slightly shorter than Slee's 4", maybe I won't be fighting quite the same caster battle.

Nay - I appreciate the input. You're right, I am kind of doing the band aid approach (which I always swear I won't do). I think the hard thing is trying to make an educated guess on what I need exactly without fully putting her through her paces yet, or riding in a rig setup how I'd ideally do it (full Slee 4" lift). I think the right thing is to go this route to alleviate immediate problems relatively economically, then when we spend a week at the dunes this summer I can really figure out what my needs are. Who knows, maybe going full tilt in the sand might get old after the first couple days. (Get antsy to get on the quad.) I'm not opposed to the 4", I'd just REALLY have to justify that one to the .

I can just picture that argument "But Honey I NEED the 4" lift! How else am I going jump the top of that dune without getting a REALLY big run at it?".

Hopefully I won't make too much "Classifieds Fodder." Though I'm sure some people wouldn't complain.

[Nay]

Just so you know...the J's up front are the same spring rate as the other OME springs (220 lb/ft). Good luck with it

[landtank]

since the front is at 22" and you're looking to go a little higher it would seem to me caster plates are a given. The 850Js are probably going to be just about right for what you want. I'll try and remember to take a measurement of my front when I get home, I've got the Slee 4" springs.

[TOY350]

You can run the OME caster correction with the J's up front but it wasn't ideal for me. It put me around 0* caster and I could feel it, not bad around town mostly noticeable on the freeway. I am at the height I want and therefor went with Landtanks plates and couldn't be happier, but if you are still playing with height after the J's I would wait until you are where you want to be for sure.

[FZJ80_YV]

I'm going to sell my OME J springs with two month of use, and the OME Corrector Caster NEW (never installed). I like my truck more higher like 5" or 6" lift kit.

[yoda-g3]

Originally Posted by FZJ80_YV

I'm going to sell my OME J springs with two month of use, and the OME Corrector Caster NEW (never installed). I like my truck more higher like 5" or 6" lift kit.

Which springs are they, I might be able to help you out.

[Lockd97]

Originally Posted by FZJ80_YV

I'm going to sell my OME J springs with two month of use, and the OME Corrector Caster NEW (never installed). I like my truck more higher like 5" or 6" lift kit.

I'm looking for 850J's for my rig. I can take them off your hands....