Fuseable Link Shorting-out...Car Shutters when acelerating??? Any Help

kayaked56 · 04-01-07, 07:40 PM

I am really sorry to get on my soap-box and ask tech related questions, I am at my end...no dealership knows, and I have searched high and low for the answer...I know you all will know.

Here is my problem:

Fuseable Link Continues to Short out
When acelerating from dead stop, the car shutters (cuts-out) 4-5 times then gets going. No other breaks in RMP once going.

So here is alittle background on the problem.

I installed the Slee Sliders, and American Racing Rims, 245/75/16 ties (Trying to sell, they just came with the rims)

I left my house in Denver, headed to the hills, when the first time since I owned the car (2 months) cut-out on the highway. I pulled over, then kept going. 5 Miles later the first Fuseable link went to shit.

After a tow to the local dealership...and $100 later a new Fuseable link and my first introduction to the odd Fuse that is used by OEM.

Then as soon as I pick up the car from the dealership, the car starts shuttering when I give it gas from a dead stop. The shuttering will continue for a few momenunts until the RPM's kick-in and the shuttering stops.

I take it back to the Dealership...and no luck, they have no clue because it will not perform the miss fire ever time you start off froma dead stop. It is a very on-off type of problem.

Then today, Way the hell out in the woods, I lock both Center, Front and Rear lockers, gas it up and boom....Fuseable link blown.

Since there is no way to get a new link, I rig it up with a Circuit breaker that holds a 10 amp cartridge fuse. Boom it works and I am off. Since these cartridge fuse holders allow you to visually determine the blown fuse, I still cannot understand why OEM uses the Fuseable link???

At any rate, another 30 miles, I blow the 10 amp, I then put a 15 amp, and it blows. I am currently using a 20 amp.

I called the guys at Slee, they are booked solid until next week and I dont trust the dealership.

I really could use any ones help. Again, here are my problems:

Fuseable link has blown twice, leaving me stranded. Then I install a amped cartridge fuse, and it continues to blow.
Car is cutting-out when I acelerate, I have a feeling this is related to the problem

Here are some photots to enjoy....but the way. There has been alot of request for photos and feedback regarding after market wood grain kits. The previous owner cut a hole in the center console, I was forced to cover it with something, I ordered a kit, and it looks REALLY good, and fit like a glove. So I hope I can add some value to this post.

Greg aka '56'

97 40th Locked, Slee Sliders, AM-Racing Rims
90 4-runner I sold for the 97...and it ran like a champ

Nemo · 04-01-07, 08:46 PM

Some basic questions or things to look at.

Did you check all of your ground points to the engine. IE the one at the firewall, the one near the fusible link to the intake manifold and the one that is located by the battery? Make sure they are snug and not loose. Have you checked your engine codes if you are getting one. What does it point to. Sounds to me something is hitting metal and causing a serious short. By defeating the purpose of the fusible link you could cause a fire which would be extremely bad so I would find the real source before it haunts you.

Nemo · 04-01-07, 08:49 PM

Glad you made it home as well. I live in Denver and know where everything is as far as wiring is concerned. I would be glad to assist in locating that this week if you had the time as well since Slee if busy.

I don't know if it is similar or not but sure the heck sounds like what I went through but different issues all together. I was seeing issues with intermittent failures of the TPS, IAC, and O2 sensors. Not saying yours is anywhere near my problem, but sure sounds like something is shorting out on you.

kayaked56 · 04-01-07, 09:04 PM

I checked the 3 points that bold to the frame for loose conections with a Negative and nothing. My next step would be to loosen and clean and then tighten back up.

I would gladly take you up on inspecting the truck, as long as I am not waisting or taking too much of your time.

Greg

Beowulf · 04-01-07, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayaked56

I still cannot understand why OEM uses the Fuseable link???

First, you want to keep a spare set of the fusible links in your trail kit. The way you rigged it for a trail fix is OK but the fuse links are cheap from the dealer.

The reason almost all manufacturers use fusible links is for a safety valve. All circuits that lead into those fusible links are protected with properly sized AGC fuses. Look for a short and look for an improperly sized fuse in that circuit.

Which fusible link is failing? Track it in your Electronic Wiring Diagram (EWD) and get an EWD if you don't have one. You can get an electronic copy of the EWD and all manuals for your model using Natergator's automated download process.

-B-

Nemo · 04-01-07, 09:25 PM

I can look it over this week. I will need to see how Monday goes due to being out at Lockheed Martin tomorrow. I have the Engine Wiring Guide plus a really good OHM meter. Should be able to test the obvious real quick. Probably speaking to you and working on the symtoms will help a ton as well. Any maintenance you have performed recently as well, or engine bay washing? I know you placed sliders in but I can't see that being anything unless you somehow pinched some wiring running near the tranny?

Just PM me and I will respond with day and number to reach me at. I live close to Downtown Denver.

kayaked56 · 04-01-07, 09:27 PM

The Fuseable link that drives the Fuel Pump, Spark etc. The other 2 fusable links are just fine. This one is by itself, and "Clips" into a gray unit. The line is a white line with Red.

Greg

Beowulf · 04-01-07, 09:34 PM

That fusible link should be protecting (i.e. safety valve) the EFI fuse circuit. We have seen EFI fuse failures from several sources. What amp fuse is in the EFI slot in the fuse panel under your bonnet? It should be 15amp. If the PO installed something larger then you need to start tracking down intermittent shorts in that circuit, and rather quickly before you fry something expensive like the ECM.

Past failures:
1. O2 wiring harness, near the O2 sensor; sometimes contacting the front driveshaft.
2. Fuel pump; one problem reported with a shorted wire at the pump (inside the tank.)
3. Main engine wiring harness. I believe one member kept shorting the EFI fuse. Plenty of posts/threads describing this problem.

Good Luck and keep us posted on what you find.

-B-

Nemo · 04-01-07, 09:40 PM

Beowulf beat me to it. Check your fuses but also check your connections at EA2 or just around the Main Fuse box drivers side. Should be able to follow that White red wire to where I am talking about. Make sure it is still in and secure. I would suspect you would be having intermittent problems with your Ignition if it was indeed the connections but a place to check just as well.

dfmorse · 04-02-07, 10:34 AM

Greg;

From the battery + the fuse link connects, thru a gray connector, to a #10 (approx) white/red wire, thru connector "EA2" to the ignition switch; this fuse link is named "AM2".

The output of the ignition switch at "IG2" is a Green/black wire that feeds mult-connection "I 7". The mult-connector "I 7" [inside the wiring harness] feeds the Ignition, coil and the injectors.

Assuming no other fuses are blowing, the problem lies near the ignition coil (frame, DS) or the wiring to the injectors; i.e., one of the injectors (connectors) is shorting to ground. This is not fun to trouble shoot. There are known problems with injector wiring.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.p...wiring+harness

sea2skydad · 04-02-07, 11:51 AM

This sounds very similiar to a problem I had. The culprit was broken wires within the main wiring harness at the back of the head. To test for this check and see if you can drive in reverse, accelerating with no problems. If so, then do a brake stand in drive and see if it sputters and dies. Finally, with the engine running, push and pull the wiring harness at the back of the head and see if the engine misses or you blow another fusible link. If this happens then you need to open the loom and repair the broken wires. The wiring harness is exposed to a lot of heat and on my truck there were 4 broken wires, IIRC, and a handful of very brittle ones that were in close to breaking. Apparently, this has happened to quite a few of us. HTH and good luck, Greg.

kayaked56 · 04-02-07, 06:20 PM

Thank you for the tips, of which I have performed all of them that do not require me hookiing up a diagnostic computer (such that I do not have).

Pulled all of the grounds, cleaned, tightened, tugged on Harness, reworked all Fuseable links, Locked all Difs and did a brake start and NOTHING. The dam thing acted totally normal. I even turned every electrical device on to draw more power and nothing. I even read a post of a guy with similiar issues, he had a bad connection on the fuel pump, and it would sputter around corners when the gas shifted. I stood on my slee rails while running and shook the truck back-and-forth. NOTHING

Them I did a test drive under very hard conditions, High RPM, up a dirt hill at 70 MPH, then slowed to turn a corner and started to accelerate and BOOM, the 7.5amp fuse I have in replacement of the fuseable link blew.

At this point I am using small amp fuses in lou of the Fuseable link for accebility and cheap.

Here are the conditions the fuses have blown, and maybe a clue for me.

1st time: Up a hill with High RPM on the highway.
2nd time: All 4 locked, pushing over a snow mound with torque
3rd time: Starting from a dead stop, up a large hill
4th time: Turning a small corner with little speed
last time: After the long dirt road, turning a corner with moderate speed.

I have now resorted to carrying extra fuses and Fire Extinguisher just in cast.

Any help.
Greg

dfmorse · 04-02-07, 07:19 PM

I worked on a lot of military aircraft wiring (my MOS). This is called murpheys law. Now that the cruiser knows u are concerned, it won't fail;;; maybe! Blowing a fusible link means there is a dead short to ground on heavy load current carrying components. I really don't think average Toyota mechanics are capable of diagnosing this problem, intermittent shorts are hard to find.

The stock fusible link is approx a #16 gauge wire. It will handle a surge current of about 80 amps, but not for long. U have an intermittent short in the wiring harness that will draw current of 100 amps or more. I modified mine per this link:
http://homepage.mac.com/dfmorse/BattProj2/page9.html

suggest that u use 30-50 amp fuse for the link until u find this short; this will help prevent serious wire over heating.

Start near cyl #6 and unwrap the harness. It (the intermittent short) may be at the injector plug; but forum notes show its in side the harness.

Contact c-dan for a new one. Contact NEMO or me and we will come over and tear the bitch apart.

...

kayaked56 · 04-02-07, 09:17 PM

What about this somewhat common problem, this was a technical write-up some time ago regarding a 93 80.

http://www.safari4x4.com.au/80scool/tech/efi_relay.html

Beowulf · 04-02-07, 10:45 PM

The issue with the EFI relay wiring is specific to the 3FE equipped vehicles. In the US, only the 91-92 model years got the 3FE engine.

-B-

kayaked56 · 04-08-07, 01:28 PM

I wanted to say thank you to all, especially Nemo!! I met with John this week, and we found the problem. It was wiring harness clip that was broken, and the wiring harness was resting on the exhaust manifold and melted a few wires together.

Thank you alot.

Greg

Beowulf · 04-09-07, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayaked56

I wanted to say thank you to all, especially Nemo!! I met with John this week, and we found the problem. It was wiring harness clip that was broken, and the wiring harness was resting on the exhaust manifold and melted a few wires together.

Thank you alot.

Greg

Can you post a picture of this location? I am not familiar with this clip near the exhaust manifold on the '97 models. Was this the O2 sensor wiring harness?

-B-

concretejungle · 04-09-07, 12:17 PM

we beat the dealer once again!!!

Congrats on getting the problem resolved. I too would like to see a photo of this clip.

Nemo · 04-09-07, 12:42 PM

It is the Big black clip that sits right below the Throttle Body near the back of the head close to the firewall. IE it was resting on the EGR _ The big hot pipe just by the firewall. It was broken and that let the wiring harness rest on the EGR which subsequently let the wires get hot and probably melt the wires inside the harness. I will see about taking a photo if kayaked56 doesn't get it. If you don't have that black clip I would suggest getting one soon.

Beowulf · 04-09-07, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo

I will see about taking a photo if kayaked56 doesn't get it. If you don't have that black clip I would suggest getting one soon.

No need for a photo. That is a well known problem and the fix is to wrap that part of the main engine wiring harness with heat tape (after repairing the burned wires, of course.) The clip is not important and I am pretty sure you cannot buy that clip without buying the entire harness. Use a wire tie if you need to but the MAIN thing is to wrap the harness with heat tape ( repetition intended.)

-B-

Nemo · 04-09-07, 12:57 PM

Thanks Beowulf. Didn't know you couldn't get the clip but I would still try and take it off of the hot pipe by securing it with a couple of wire ties or something. Reminds me. I just replaced my entire wiring harness and I need to go out and put more heat tape on

Beowulf · 04-09-07, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo

Thanks Beowulf. Didn't know you couldn't get the clip but I would still try and take it off of the hot pipe by securing it with a couple of wire ties or something. Reminds me. I just replaced my entire wiring harness and I need to go out and put more heat tape on

The clip on mine busted when I removed the EGR valve about 5 years ago. I tried to get a new one from Dan. That was when I found out the clip (assuming we are talking about the same one...) was not available without buying the complete harness. I pulled one off a bone yard 80 a few months ago and plan to put it on the next time I think about it. The most important thing is the heat tape and keeping some distance between the EGR pipe and the harness; however you can do it. Regular wire ties would work.

-B-