Rear axle service - FF

nakman · 03-22-04, 09:04 AM

I swear I tried searching for this 10 different ways... only thing that came up was that "how much should it cost" post, I know it's come up recently. just frustrating, that's all..

Ok, so we're repacking my rear bearings on Saturday, all is well, but when I go to reinsert the axle on the short side (passenger's) it won't go in! Stops about 5" from where it needs to be, so wasn't even up to the splines in the diff yet. Few others give it a try, same result.. get the flashlight. Inside there's this gear that has fallen down, fallen about an inch.... no way the axle is going to slide through it. wtf? So after some head scratching, Jeff comes back with a long spare tire lowering tool, sticks it in there, then somehow wiggles that gear back up, it stays put long enough to get the axle in... whew! bolt that sucker on, quick! For about 30 minutes there we all had visions of pulling the 3rd member, to align that gear by hand, since FF axles don't have inspection covers.

So is that the gear that the locker moves when it engages? And the rest of the time, it's just idling on top of the axle, not engaged with anything? Should I have engaged the locker before pulling anything apart? All seems fine now, though I haven't turned the locker on to make sure it's working.. probably worth doing though. Did the whole job a lot like the writeup here (thanks go out to Klunky Chris!) http://65.40.131.223/fzj80_rear_bearing.htm but didn't see anything in there about engaging the locker. I look forward to your comments.

sleeoffroad · 03-22-04, 09:19 AM

It was probably the dog gear on the shift fork for the locker. You could have removed the actuator and re-positioned it as well. Be glad you did not have to remove your axle this way [hijaak on]

sleeoffroad · 03-22-04, 09:21 AM

Because when you twist the splines on the wrong side of the dog gear you can not get the axle out. The splines look like this when you trash your truck.

sleeoffroad · 03-22-04, 09:24 AM

And the other side looks like this.

nakman · 03-22-04, 09:26 AM

Thanks, Christo.. so in the future when I want curved splines I'll know just who to turn to...

So does that dog gear fall down all the time, or am I just special? -tim

lagwagon · 03-22-04, 09:26 AM

With the other side axle out you can leave a broomstick or dowel in to keep the gear up

e9999 · 03-22-04, 09:26 AM

neat photos.
So, what should one do as far as the reassembly with or without locker engaged?
E

landtank · 03-22-04, 09:34 AM

The FSM mentions locking the lockers before removing the Diff. I think this would also apply to removing the axles but could be wrong.

sleeoffroad · 03-22-04, 09:38 AM

Yes, you have to lock the diff. You can not get a dowel in from the other side since it will hit the cross shaft.

Klunky Chris · 03-22-04, 09:38 AM

Hey! That's my website!

I didn't have the problems you had upon re-assembly but I only did one side at a time. Therefore one axle was in at all times. I wonder if this helped? Christo?
If so I'll be sure to put it in the write-up.

If there's anything you think is missing or any tips let me know!
(does my heart good to give something back.. *tear*)

I do remember one side being a pain to get alligned. I *think* it was the short side, but I forget. Same kind of problem, axle stopped with about 2" to go yet.
Also, I do have E-lockers.

sleeoffroad · 03-22-04, 09:45 AM

This is what caused it all.

nakman · 03-22-04, 09:47 AM

Yes, thanks Chris, I edited my post above to give you the well-deserved props. I also did one side at a time, but I don't think it matters since the other axle doesn't make it all the way through the diff anyway. I like the wagon's broomstick idea.. will remember that next time it comes up.

Only edit I'd make to your site is on your illustration of the marks on the spindle and the marks on those three posts on the lock nut.. there are in fact 4 marks on the spindle, at 90° from each other... your site says only 3. That's so every 30° around you will have one set of marks lined up, and can install the two phillips screws.

Klunky Chris · 03-22-04, 09:56 AM

shoot.....
that's what I get for making the site a bit after the work. I thought there were three, and my pic wasn't that great so....... :slap:

I'll see what I can do, I think I have the original pic to work from still.

So Christo, are you *supposed* to lock the diff first? I didn't for mine. My 94 Yoda service manual says nothing about it.

quicktodoze · 03-22-04, 10:16 AM

I followed Chris' instructions, too, but I didn't have any problems with a falling gear and I didn't have my lockers engaged. Lucky?

nuclearlemon · 03-22-04, 08:42 PM

hehehehehe...so christo...i guess you got you axle out. how fun was that

did ben fix his too, or does it still make that funky clunking sound when he drives

RavenTai · 03-22-04, 08:59 PM

I removed the short side with the rear unlocked and it took a lot of fiddling with the axle shaft to get it to line up, the gear did not fall all the way down like the way yours sounds like but it did misalign. TrailCarnages we put it together with the diff locked and it went right in

IdahoDoug · 03-22-04, 09:06 PM

I'd like to know more about this also. I have a '94 supplement for the rear diff and I did not engage my locker when I pulled the axles. Did mine one at a time and did not experience any issues with misalignment. I'll be doing this again and would like to know what the deal here is? Anyone have a definitive feel on avoiding this potentially disastrous (for us home guys without Christo/Robbie levels of knowledge/tools) issue?

DougM

theferg · 03-22-04, 11:21 PM

Yes, you are supposed to lock the rear diff before removing the rear short side shaft. For those of you who didn't and had no issues--consider yourselves lucky. The lock sleeve (the thing that fell down) slides back and forth along the long splined end of the shaft. The only things that contact the lock sleeve are the fork and the axle shaft. The shaft and the fork together keep the lock sleeve in position. Remove either, and your lock sleeve is gonna run somewhat wild. Maybe a couple pics will help.

One of my locking diffs that I had sent to me was missing the lock sleve so I got to learn a bit more about all the parts and such in the lock diff. Anyway, here's some pics.

In this one you can see the lock sleeve sitting in the fork. The diff is unlocked. You can see how the lock sleeve could just drop right outta the fork if you tipped a bit and without a shaft in there. (P.S. I stole this pic from Lance's site about puttin' 80 series lockers into an FJ55).

-Ferg-

theferg · 03-22-04, 11:25 PM

Without the lock sleeve.

theferg · 03-22-04, 11:28 PM

Expanded view (courtesy of cruiserdan when I was trying to get ahold of a few missing parts...

)

theferg · 03-22-04, 11:33 PM

Lock sleeve on shaft.

sleeoffroad · 03-23-04, 06:22 AM

Doug, Ben pretty much showed the pictures and it explains it. If you pulled the shaft with the locker unlocked and the lock sleeve did not drop out you are lucky. It is that piece (which I called a dog gear) that we had to cut off. If the splines twist between the lock sleeve and the diff you are hosed and you can not get the axle out. Mine was the 2nd case that I know off. Just a note for the hard core guys. Would not really happen on a stockish truck with moderate tire sizes.

sleeoffroad · 03-23-04, 06:24 AM

Also, just fyi for those that was wondering about retrofitting a elocker, the shaft that has the lock sleeve on it, is the one that needs to be replaced. On a non lockered FF axle the splines are shorter.

nakman · 03-23-04, 08:41 AM

Yup that's the one, the lock sleeve! Funny I looked last night and my FSM neglected to mention this as well... Dang I learned something today after all. So to recap, the answer is YES lock your rear locker prior to pulling the axle on the short side when performing a rear axle service.

Nothing like learning how to do the job after you've finished... thanks everybody.

cruiserdan · 03-23-04, 11:45 AM

I have mentioned before that the diff should be locked before axle shaft removall.

Nobody ever listens to me

Junk · 03-23-04, 11:56 AM

Cbizkit, that's cause you're on vaca and we don't even listen to ya when you're here.

No go knock back a few.

Klunky Chris · 03-23-04, 01:18 PM

OK...
I believe you guys, and will update my site so that it reflects this new info (sorry C-Dan... I don't remember anyone saying this before

)

But.... ??? is the function of the front locker different in that it does not need to be locked? In the manual it seems to be the same design and open shift fork.

I ask, because I drove about 5 hours with my axles/birfs/driveline out and didn't have a problem getting them back in. If the *lock sleeve* was going to move or fall out, it should have in D.C. traffic at least!

nakman · 03-23-04, 02:01 PM

I'm sorry Dan I promise to be a better listener in the future.. geez

fwiw, those new seals fit like a dream- parts guy musta got lucky that day, eh?

and Chris that's funny, never even thought about the front until now.. must be a different setup since I'd bet front axle jobs probably outnumber the rears by 3:1, don't you think? Show of hands, how many of you have done your front axle? now, who's done the back? alright maybe closer to 2:1, still.. But has anyone ever heard this come up before when doing the front... just don't knock that spot welded washer thingy loose, that's all.

the shed guy · 03-23-04, 05:11 PM

[quote author=cruiserdan link=board=2;threadid=13520;start=msg125812#msg125 812 date=1080067552]
I have mentioned before that the diff should be locked before axle shaft removall.

Nobody ever listens to me

[/quote]

Sorry Cdan, did you say something ??? I wasnt listening

Safado · 06-03-04, 12:38 AM

So after quite a time in the search field I found what I wasn't looking for, but good info none the less. (SHOULD PROBABLY BE IN THE FAQs)

In my on going persuit of ridding myself of the deceleration rumbling gremlins, that seemed to replicate as bad as the ones from the movie just in the last 2 weeks, I decided to once again check for slop in the rear bearings...sure enough, there was a bit in both wheels. So I tore into it.

I don't have the stock lockers...do I have this "lock sleve" in mine? Should I have engaged the ARB's? No difference I guess in my case as both axles are standing in the corner of my garage at this moment and the pains of reinstall will be seen later...but just for future reference and for others.

Both locking nuts were VERY loose...I could actually finger tighten them both still when I first removed the two screws. DS was completely washed out of all grease, but the PS was full of some pretty nasty black grease still. So am I seeing this right...that little oil seal fails next to the axle shaft and the diff fluid and oil mix, or is there another seal somewhere? Can you remove the rear spindle or is it a permenant part of the axle housing?

Thanks...