Should I buy an 80, costs of ownership?

[FJ809496TLC]

Originally Posted by aslan1

WOW! I work as ageneral sales manager for a high line used car dealership in Illinois . I recently bought a 1994 Landcruiser for $6000 . good deal , maybe . I am lucky to be able to purchase such a nice vehicle for such a low price. but by no means is this a $30 - $40k vehicle. The one thing you all miss , and excuse me for my bluntness , is market. market very simply meaning , in my opinon and that of my industry , depreciation and resale value. Granted at one point the 80 series was worth as high as $50,000 + brand new , but so was the ford excursion! I wouldnt pay fifty for either! Also granted the capability of the landcruiser is far greater than the excursion , but they are both used and you can buy a comparably equipped 2001 excursion for the same price as a 1994 landcruiser. resale is always higher on a better vehicle. Better meaning build quality and maintenance. but a 12 year old vehicle is 12 YEARS OLD!!! Why sink money into something with depreciating resale value. The more you put in, the more you lose. Buy cheap , it hurts less in the long run.

I bought my 96 and was stickered at $52.9k but actually paid 45K for it. I don't care about resale value because I'm planning to keep it and all the other Cruisers I have for a very long time and yes it's worth it. I didn't buy these vehicles as an investment, I bought them to have fun. Now if somebody offers me fifty grand on my 96 Cruiser, I'll politely decline and tell them to find an Excursion instead.

[ALLINFUN]

I purchased my 96 Eighty in 2000. Best buck I ever spent.
ALLINFUN

[DaveyBoy]

Originally Posted by TiredIronGRB

You forgot to mention the 1-2 hours a day reading IH8MUD threads...

This might actually be THE most expensive part!!

[Ting]

FJ809496TLC - how many cars do you have, and how many bought it brand spanking new?

[FJ809496TLC]

Originally Posted by Ting

FJ809496TLC - how many cars do you have, and how many bought it brand spanking new?

Landpimp has more. I bought most of mine new.

[zcruiser]

I guess I'll find out...

Had a 62 for about 18 months, it had been well-maintained and I only put 4K miles on it in the time I had it but rebuilt the starter and replaced water pump and all hoses and belts. Did the work myself so didn't cost much more than parts and a couple weekends. Odo read 202.5K when I sold it.

Moved from the 62 to an 1994 FZJ80 because it was deemed by my family to be a better fit for our uses. 192K on the clock, but I know it was well-maintained as well because the family owned an auto shop and I have all the records. I don't expect the repairs on the 80 to be as easy as they were on the 62, but I'll do what I can. HG and PHH are inevitable. will watch this thread/forum closely for correct PM and signs of imminent doom.

[Grench]

Interesting...
People who have owned these trucks for a few years realize that if you're planning to keep it forever, they need some love. Maintenance isn't cheap, but IMHO is far cheaper than buying new vehicles of this caliber.

The new guys are soiling themselves over the numbers we're throwing around. Don't panic guys, but DO count on spending about $1000 a year minimum for maintenance. Double to triple that for one year somewhere around 120,000 miles. Then after you're done doing the litany of maintenance bits for the 10 year/120,000 mile axle bearings/birfields/U-joints/rotors/t-stat/hoses/belts/air intake hose/etc... Once you're done with it, from what I can tell you're set for the next 6 years or so and back to the $1000 a year rate. We're replacing/fixing/repacking a LOT of wear parts now because a lot of these trucks are around the 120,000 mile range.

So, if you'd rather go out and spend $45,000 every 4-6 years on a new GM product X and you have the cash to do it, go right ahead. 20 years from now I'll have about $120,000 in my two FZJ80s. The new car every 5 years gets you $200,000+inflation.

Yep mods cost money, time or both. Yep. No denying it. They aren't required for membership either last I checked. Just an addiction to these trucks.

[Romer]

I think the $1000 a year maintenance is way high unless your paying someone else to do the work.

You could rebuild both front and rear axles and swap the rotors and brake pads and Flush fill, change fluids. spark plugs, dist cap, rotor, wires, PCV, fuel filter, starter contacts, PHH could be done all for less than $1000 for someone who wants to do the work themselves.

Then after that, it's simply oil changes, lube and an occasional flush.

Maybe one year a new fan clutch ~$120 or and intake hose.

A head Gasket is about $500 if you do it yourself or $1500 to have someone else do it (includes head work).


I really don't think the PM is bad once you get it baselined.

[Lugboot]

This is a great thread and THANK YOU for putting it up! Perhaps one of the threads referenced by CDan was mine asking for general PM costs--dunno--but the original post here by CDan is a very good point. No one should live in a fantasy world when it comes to owning any high-mileage vehicle, Cruiser or otherwise. But whereas other domestic high-mileage trucks get iffy all over the place, it seems the Cruiser is simply built for more longevity and that's what I want (along with the diffs and other yummy bits).

I'd much rather pay for maintenance on a Cruiser and own it three to four times as long than drop coin every 5 years on some domestic pail that gets beat to pieces. In the long term, investing in the maintenance of one high-quality vehicle typically is cheaper than constant turn-over. I'm done with putting up with short-term, low build quality domestic trucks--as is evidenced by the fact I'm ditching a newer one with half the miles for an 80!

Good stuff costs money. Cheap stuff costs more money, IMHO.

[Jeremiaheaster]

Good stuff costs money. Cheap stuff costs more money, IMHO.

Doesn't this so often turn out to be the case. I figure five or ten years down the road it will ring true of my Land Cruiser purchase as well.

[BrettinSanAntonio]

I’ve recently come back to the Land Cruiser (LX450) from four years of Land Rover ownership.

Since the late 1980’s to 2001, I owned a ’82 FJ60, ’85 4Runner, ’86 FJ60 and a ’95 FZJ80. All were wonderful vehicles, had their issues but always got me home. However, I couldn’t find a strong Toyota community to share knowledge, ownership enjoyment and trail runs.

Land Rover offered strong dealer support and a large local club of Land Rover owners. So, I defected and purchased a ’95 Land Rover Discovery. I owned that discovery for two years and during that time I never had a major failure; HOWEVER, it did nickel and dime me as its own personal, sick hobby. There was always some little item that needed repair or replacement like, window controllers (small computer that controls the windows), engine sensors galore and interior trim components. These items are NOT inexpensive even from non-dealer sources.

My second Land Rover was a much better experience. I found a high mileage ’95 Range Rover Classic (older, square body) that had an impeccable service record to accompany it. The previous owner spent an average of $8000 a year on maintenance during his ownership. This gentleman had money and took it to the dealer for EVERYTHING.
I enjoyed the three years I owned this vehicle; however, again, it required constant maintenance. I spent an hour or two a week in the garage changing fluids, adjusting things, cleaning carbon out of the intake, etc., etc.
I decided to sell the Rangie in favor of something a bit larger with more seating and better reliability, etc.

So, here I am. Happy to be back with a Land Cruiser (’97 LX450). I was able to find one with 112K miles and all the bells and whistles (OME lift, 35” BFG MT, ARB front bumper with Warn 9000 winch, rear Kaymar bumper with spare tire carrier and extendable work light, dual battery setup, factory lockers, center locker button, center drink holder, CB radio, sweet Kaymar roof rack, four Piaa bumper mounted lights and other goodies on the interior) for $15K. At this point, all I need are rock sliders and I’m done. The maintenance was fairly good but I will have to do the PHH soon and a tune up. I’m about a two and a half banana mechanic and can probably do most of the maintenance myself.

When I look at the cost of parts for Land Rovers compared to Land Cruisers, I find Toyota much less expensive to service and maintain BY FAR. Plus, Land Rovers have become so computer dependent that engine codes and common maintenance REQUIRES a trip to the dealer to reset the vehicle computers. With an hours labor charge I might add. All Land Rover vehicles require this proprietary software for service.

I don’t mean to knock Land Rovers, they do have some fine points and are quite surprising off-road; however, you will pay for driving a thoroughbred instead of a workhorse.

My Land Cruiser is FAR less expensive to maintain and much more reliable.

Now I just have to find some local, South Texas Toyota people to gather for the sake of Toyota love.

[zcruiser]

One thing I want to point out about owning a Cruiser that was alluded to by Brett. I am fortunate to have cruiser owners around (when needed), but the biggest savings by far in my book is ih8mud.com! Talk about saving money on cost of ownership! Find out how to fix it here, get timely expert (and oh yeah, FREE) advice when you get stuck, and buy the parts at a discount from members (used or new).

So a big THANKS to Woody and his posse for lowering our cost of ownership, and if you haven't bought a star after getting something of value out of this board, yer a loser!

[Bearcat80]

Originally Posted by Romer

I think the $1000 a year maintenance is way high unless your paying someone else to do the work.

You could rebuild both front and rear axles and swap the rotors and brake pads and Flush fill, change fluids. spark plugs, dist cap, rotor, wires, PCV, fuel filter, starter contacts, PHH could be done all for less than $1000 for someone who wants to do the work themselves.

Then after that, it's simply oil changes, lube and an occasional flush.

Maybe one year a new fan clutch ~$120 or and intake hose.

A head Gasket is about $500 if you do it yourself or $1500 to have someone else do it (includes head work).


I really don't think the PM is bad once you get it baselined.

My experience exactly. I bought at 125k, and did all that Romer lists above, thanks CDan, plus a window regulator and less the head gasket, which is scheduled for next month. Well under 1K. Mine was bought for 8K with a lift already under it and I found a used ARB for cheap. I find the parts to be reasonable compared to the Cummins and powerstroke parts I'm used to buying. All in all, less than 10k for a rig that will wheel with 35k rubicons is a pretty good deal. The gebneral point of the thread is spot on, though, if you don't wan't a rig to maintain as a hobby, buy somerthing else, or something newer.

[BPMOU]

I just read this thread for the first time and I must say that I have been driving several diffrent full size trucks looking at getting rid of my 80. The guy I deal with is a broker so I driven each for a few days at a time, all of them except one were still within the 36K factory warranty. Not one of these vehicles was worth the price that they bring on the market except for the diesel trucks. While I could use more room for hunting, I've came to the realization that the 80 even at 10 years old is still a better built vehicle than any of the American trucks. Since I am a little late to party, now I can take the extra money that I was going to spend each month and get caught up on the maintence. So the true cost of ownership is still less than a new or used vehicle.

[tech_dog]

I think the best thing about owning a LC is that it doesn't have to end. Each and every LC, regardless of age, is still a great vehicle to own as long as you've kept it in good condition.

I can't imagine liking a vehicle more than I like my 13 year old Landcruiser, even though it would surely sell for less than $10K. These things are classics, and classics never get old.

The real savings is being able to drive a 10, 20, 30, or even 40 year old vehicle that's still loaded with quality, capability, and character.

Even if you spend several thousand during a rough maintenance year, it's still far less expensive than a new car that would have much less personality.

And to be honest, my rig has been extremely reliable over the years. Sure, it sucks brakes, and the knuckle jobs are a bitch, but other than that there's been nothing out of the ordinary. I had one stretch where it blew through $2K as a dealer chased some CEL's, but beyond that it's been extremely reliable.

I have an '06 100, but it's the '94 80 that's really proven itself and earned the spot on my avatar.

T.

[Lugboot]

Originally Posted by zcruiser

One thing I want to point out about owning a Cruiser that was alluded to by Brett. I am fortunate to have cruiser owners around (when needed), but the biggest savings by far in my book is ih8mud.com! Talk about saving money on cost of ownership! Find out how to fix it here, get timely expert (and oh yeah, FREE) advice when you get stuck, and buy the parts at a discount from members (used or new).

So a big THANKS to Woody and his posse for lowering our cost of ownership, and if you haven't bought a star after getting something of value out of this board, yer a loser!

I have to agree with this as well--reading and learning on this board really helped me with my decision to seriously look for for an 80. The information here is priceless for making you realize you can do a lot of the maintenance yourself. I, for one, am definitely looking forward to tinkering and learning more once I finally get one!! Definitely need to send a big shout-out to those that make this forum worthy!

[Mike S]

My '96 FZJ80 is my third Landcruiser. I started with a new, off the showroom floor FJ40 in 1973 - $3800 delivered. I drove it for about 15 years, sold it to a friend for $2500. Bought a 60 (Great truck!), drove it for a couple years, sold it, and bought the 80 about a year ago. The previous owner had kept meticulous records since new, and made a number of very useful modifications. I has about 125K miles on it currently, and I expect to drive it to well over 250K miles.

For my long distance driving, for negotiating nasty patches with confidence, and for comfort, the 80 is superior to anything I have ever driven. The only thing needed o make it perfect for my needs would be an 1HD-T diesel engine... but I can certainly live with the 1HZ.

[Brian Macgyver]

I see resale mentioned as an issue. WHY?
I love my 80 for reliability, safety, and it goes anywhere. I don't care about resale because I am not stupid enough to ever part with it! It has already been rolled and I don't think anything short of a freight train could damage it beyond repair. Can you spell TOUGH TRUCK?
Other cars may come and go, but an 80 is forever. You cannot put a price on that.

[JMays]

I hate surprises (at least the ones that don’t involve nude women and cakes) …

A big relief to me has been the reliability of these vehicles, even the problems seem occur on schedule. I’m not that flush with cash or a big do-it-yourselfer and knowing what is coming and about when it’s due has allowed me has allowed me to plan my finances accordingly. I’d rather know I will need to drop $1,200 in six months than wake up to a vehicle that won’t start or one that doesn’t make it home at night

[94 Newbie]

I have also wondered how in the world anyone could come up w/ the coin to buy a ~ 45K vehicle new in '94 and pay it off over 3 years !

(I read that somewhere -was that you, cruiserdan ? )


At any rate, sounds like it would have been a sound investment as in theory for the next 7 years/70K miles all that would be needed was routine maintenance.

Now, to mine - bought this year , w/ 168K on the clock. Interior was really clean, everything worked, and it was bigger - and nicer - than a 4 Runner , which is what we were initially chasing. I bought it not having a clue in the world what it was other than a medium sized well known ( world over ) 4 X .

If only I had known about the locker option !

At any rate, my hope is that with only PM I can make it to 200K , or at least until I have my 36 month note paid off.

I will do most maintenance myself - from what I have seen, the front axle teardown is not all that much worse than any of the Ram Chargers or Blazers, or Suburbans I have owned previously.

Well, I will need a bronze hammer for those cone washers, but I can live w/ that. I already have the 4 wheel drive bearing lock tool, if what fits a Sub fits this, and if not, that one was relatively cheap.

I would probrably try my hand at the PHH , but a head gaket - Gawd forbid - is beyond what I would try.

IF ! I had to replace birfs , or the HG , my dollar theories are all out the window, but I hope that my PM costs would be less than 1K a year.

Gas is another matter ...

I have never owned a Japanese vehicle before, although the ex did have a Nissan Sentra. I find myself laughing that some of the same little glitches that occur on domestics occur on my LC, but at the same time am absolutley amazed at the beefiness of the axles ( full floating rears on basically a 1/2 ton ) compared w/ a domestic, and the potential longevity of the tranny ( designed for a 30K lb bus from my readings here ! ) , and of course the wearability of the straight 6 engine.

I find myself driving this as often as I can, to the chagrin of my wallet vis a vis the gas store.

However, I did not buy it for mileage, either - it replaced a '91 Sub that was sold to a buddy who was desperate for a rig, and I have had several full time 4 x's before.

So, in conclusion, vote for me - um, err I would have to say that an uneducated guesstimate is $ 500.00 a year PM , and who knows in the event of a catastrophic failure.

My .02 !


Britt

[Daddymax]

Thanks Woody. long time FJ80 owner but new to the boards. I am doing my research to take our old ass & trash hauler into a great truck for my son to drive. This is a very valuable resource for information on a great vehicle.

[FJnAK]

I bought my FJ 40 a 4 years ago after wanting to own one since I was little and rode in my uncle's. Then as my family has grown, I've decided to get an FZJ80. Thanks for all the info, I look forward to owning and wheeling one of these quality machines.

[JimmyK]

Really well Said Dan, thank you for that. There is no price that can be placed on contentment and peice of mind. I drive my Cruiser with more joy then any of our cars below.. and it was purchased for 13% of the cost that the S500 was...

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by JimmyK

I drive my Cruiser with more joy then any of our cars... Below is our stable:

So, where is the Land Cruiser?

-B-

[JimmyK]