[Romer]

As stated in the cooper thread, I narrowed my choices down to 2 similar tires in the 315 75 R16 size. I thought I would start a thread to debate the two a bit.


Factor ---- Cooper SST ---- Toyo Open Country MT
Load Range ---------- D ---------- D
Overall Diameter ------ 34.47 ---------- 34.9
Tread Width ------- 9.8 ---------- 10 - - - --edited to correct widths
Max Load ---------- 3195 ---------- 3860
Tread Depth -------- 20 ---------- 21
Weight ---------- 63lbs ---------- 76lbs
Price ----- ---------- $205 ---------- $239

Cooper Discovery


Toyo Open Country MTs


Looking at the two I see the advantages as follows:

Cooper SST:

• Less expensive
• Not quite as wide, aren't narrower tires suppose to be better offroad and get better MPG? (Debate please)
• Not as heavy

Toyo MTs

• Half inch taller
• Thicker sidewall - better sidewall protection
• Heavier weight load

Now some points I would like to open up discussion on:

• Does a heaveir tire (16lbs or so) per rim provide more stress on components and take more effort to turn, i.e. a few more horses from the engine?
• Does the 1 inch less in width provide better off road ability and slightly better MPG?

I think I have decided on the Cooper STT's, but we have been having so much fun discussing tires I thought there were a few points worth discussing.

Note: I will link this in the other thread

[Romer]

I don't think the additional max load factor comes into play here with our vehicles. Let me know if you disagree.

[Tools R Us]

The tread width on the 315 Cooper is 9.8", you have the section width listed.

I have decided on the Coopers also, but one size up, 325/80R16.

[Romer]

So, 3 inches of difference in tire width. Whats the pros and cons of that?

the 325/80 is a 36.8" tire, for those curious

Thanks kevin.

[lowenbrau]

Availablility tends to be the disadvantage to the Toyos. If both were available I'd want to see at least a 20% differnece in price before I'd choose the Cooper. The Toyo is simply better quality. My friend at the 4x4 shop sells a lot of both and the Toyos, even in very large sizes, nearly always balance with one or two oz of weights.

[jamisobe]

For me noise is a factor. I have heard that that the Toyos are very quiet - for an M/T. How are the Coopers with noise?

Also, I understand that the Toyo M/Ts have excellent road manners which is important to me. How are the Coopers on the road? I think a little wider tread would be an advantage with wet and dry performance on the street (pilargo amelio). What about stiffness of the sidewalls when cornering?

I have heard others, friends in WVA, say that narrower is better in deep ruts because it allows the tread to sink past the soup. I'm not sure how much of a difference it actuallly is though.

[jamisobe]

The higher load rating of the Toyos could come into play if you are towing. I have pulled a heavy car trailer stacked with ATVs on a few occasions.

[Romer]

Originally Posted by lowenbrau

Availablility tends to be the disadvantage to the Toyos. If both were available I'd want to see at least a 20% differnece in price before I'd choose the Cooper. The Toyo is simply better quality. My friend at the 4x4 shop sells a lot of both and the Toyos, even in very large sizes, nearly always balance with one or two oz of weights.

Can you specify why the Toyo is better quaility?


Actually, I can get the Toyos today. The coopers would take 7-10 days.


Anyone care to discuss the impact of the additional weight of the Toyo's?

[jamisobe]

I know that the Toyos are segmented mold vs clamshell mold. Looking at the pictures of the Coopers it looks like they may be clamshell molded but I can't tell for sure.

Segmented mold is how performance tires and now most luxury/touring tires are made. It provides for better balance, wear, and handling.

[Buckru]

Ken,

When we were at Flat Nasty, MoJ's Toyo's never lost traction once that I saw and he didn't air down below 35psi. I can't comment on the Coopers.

Good Luck

Buck Buchanan

[FJBen]

If it were up to me, I'd be running those Toyo's in a heartbeat....but I couldn't find them, they definitley weren't around when I bought tires with no-one on the planet could get them in the US.

I'd be running them in 37's if they came in a 16" rim!

I would sell my Trxus to throw the Toyo's on with the reviews and what friends have said who have run them.

The weight will add to sluggishness, no doubts about it, more rolling mass...it's just physics...how much thos I couldn't really tell you..

GO TOYO!

[jamisobe]

Originally Posted by FJBen

If it were up to me, I'd be running those Toyo's in a heartbeat....

GO TOYO!

X2 here.

[Tools R Us]

I would prefer the Toyo's, but they are wide in larger sizes. I am very happy with the Nitto's (a Toyo brand) performance, even in the nasty wet conditions we had in Moab last week. The 9-10" tread width works well for the type of wheeling and the terrain that I see, just looking for something taller to make more room/clearance under my rig and improve the trail ride.

If Terra Grapplers or Toyo's were available in 325/80R16 or 37/12.5R16 they would be on my junk. A wider tire has more fitting issues, causes more drag and I don't see any advantage for the type of wheeling that I do.

[MaddBaggins]

Originally Posted by jamisobe

I know that the Toyos are segmented mold vs clamshell mold. Looking at the pictures of the Coopers it looks like they may be clamshell molded but I can't tell for sure.

Segmented mold is how performance tires and now most luxury/touring tires are made. It provides for better balance, wear, and handling.

Looking at my Coopers that still have some fringe on them from the mold, I'd say they are segmented molds as well. About 2" above the lettering is a seam on both sides of the tire and in a few other places as well.
The Coopers are not much louder than my Geolanders were.
I have a family friend who is a manager at Discount. You don't wanna know what I paid for mine. :biggrin:
I wouldn't want the sidewall to stiff, thick is OK, but stiff would defeat the purpose of airing down to get a better footprint.

[jamisobe]

Originally Posted by MaddBaggins

Looking at my Coopers that still have some fringe on them from the mold, I'd say they are segmented molds as well. About 2" above the lettering is a seam on both sides of the tire and in a few other places as well.
The Coopers are not much louder than my Geolanders were.
I have a family friend who is a manager at Discount. You don't wanna know what I paid for mine. :biggrin:
I wouldn't want the sidewall to stiff, thick is OK, but stiff would defeat the purpose of airing down to get a better footprint.

Do you see a seam down the middle?

[Elijah]

Originally Posted by Tools R Us

The tread width on the 315 Cooper is 9.8", you have the section width listed.

I have decided on the Coopers also, but one size up, 325/80R16.

x2. Better size variety. Hinidsight is always 20/20.

[MaddBaggins]

Originally Posted by jamisobe

Do you see a seem down the middle?

Standby, I'll run out and count how many.

[Romer]

hme hmmm hmmm hmmm, dodoooo doododo, hummmhummm

Come on Alvin, we don't have all day

[MaddBaggins]

There are 10 seams across the width of the tread and one seam on each side running around the circumference. So I guess a 12 piece mold.

[jamisobe]

Originally Posted by MaddBaggins

Standby, I'll run out and count how many.

I tried to google it but I can't find the answer...

[jamisobe]

Originally Posted by MaddBaggins

There are 10 seams across the width of the tread and one seam on each side running around the circumference. So I guess a 12 piece mold.

I don't know what that means.

[MaddBaggins]

Originally Posted by Romer

hme hmmm hmmm hmmm, dodoooo doododo, hummmhummm

Come on Alvin, we don't have all day

I was using the word run loosely

[jamisobe]

Originally Posted by jamisobe

I don't know what that means.

This is why:

http://www.toyojapan.com/tires/pdf/T...ire%20molds%22

I have never heard of a mold with that many joints???

[MaddBaggins]

Originally Posted by jamisobe

I don't know what that means.

No seam down the middle. Having done my fair share of fiberglass molds for concrete way back when, I would say the mold for these has 2 sides and 10 pieces for the rolling surface of the tire.

[MaddBaggins]

Originally Posted by jamisobe

This is why:

http://www.toyojapan.com/tires/pdf/T...ire%20molds%22

I have never heard of a mold with that many joints???

After looking at your link, yup Coopers are segmented 12 pieces

[jamisobe]

Originally Posted by MaddBaggins

No seam down the middle. Having done my fair share of fiberglass molds for concrete way back when, I would say the mold for these has 2 sides and 10 pieces for the rolling surface of the tire.

The only segmented mold process I have heard of used by Michelin, Goodyear, Pirreli, Bridgestone, etc. has two side plates and center segments around the circumference. The only clamshell mold process I have heard of uses two halfs. That's why I am scratching my head. I need one of those smilies that scratches their heads...

I know that Cooper was taking alot of heat few years back because of defects and I did see in my research that they were at least using the segmented process on some of their tires. I just can find specifically which ones...

[clownmidget]

Ken, Iverness has the 315 Toyo's on his truck with the OME 850/863 spring combo (+ spacers up front). I believe the wheels are the same backspacing as stock. You can see several pics of his truck wheeling with those tires here. The single best comment, that I think he would share, that I can make about them is their "on road" manners compared with comparable trail tires. They are the most quiet tire with this much tread void I've experienced. I believe the Toyo's may allow you to run a higher tire pressure on the road? My only complaint is exactly what's been pointed out already - the bigger sizes are too wide. The Toyo Open Country A/T's I got for the road are 355/70R17 and if you can believe it, they seem to run a little wider than that spec.

[smittycrusher]

I think I am going to go with cooper b/c of the knights on the sidewall. End of arguement.

































j/k.. i love this thread as these are the two I am narrowed down to also. As it stands Cooper will get the nod for me...price is important to me. Any weight I can save is nice also. I have not really heard any negative opinions on either...which is what makes it so tough. I do like that they are both siped. Anyone ever had either in snow (deep, medium, shallow), slush, or mud? What did you think?

[Romer]

Thanks Mike. I'm still not sure if the the 3" additional width of the Toyo is a good thing or bad thing. It would be closer to the flares. Where is MOJ when you need him.

[jamisobe]

Tell the tire guy that you like them but your not sure if they will rub. My old tire guy would of just tried 'em out. If they rub go for the Coopers. If they rub then go with 33s...