[Nay]

This is my first 80 and second attempt at creating a rig that can both handle hardcore Western rock crawling and family hauling duty in the Colorado High Country weather not withstanding. When we outgrew the XJ (yep, that’s a Jeep) in family size, the 80 was the only replacement. Inline six, solid axle, AWD for mountain treks, selectable lockers…she was like an old friend the first time I looked at it. Almost a year later she’s The Goat, but more on that later.

We bought The Goat in September of 2005. I needed to wait until my new house closed to buy a new vehicle, but I needed the rig immediately as my one mile “commute” was increasing to 20 miles and we were a one car family. I wanted to buy a rig that was already built since with four young ones and a new house time and money for mods were going to be hard to come by.

I also wanted to keep things simple this time and avoid the “domino” effect of mods and spending that got out of control with my XJ, which ended up lifted 8” and $20K sunk into it. So I figured factory lockers, OME, 33’s, and some sliders and I would be set. I was working a deal out of California that was becoming problematic due to shipping costs when a “For Sale” post came up that had a picture in the post that I knew had to be Colorado. Sure enough, two miles from my house, two weeks from the close on my new house, the perfect rig is for sale.

The Goat is white with tan interior. Clean but no pastel panties in sight. Worn just right so you’ll take care of her but she’s not going to be high maintenance. OME 2.5” with 33” BFG AT ko’s. Slee sliders and Garvin roof rack. Factory hand throttle and CDL. Even a factory cup holder and Slee t-case skid. 105K miles. Lockers. Three rows of seats for four small kids. Flares removed and plugged with white plugs. Perfect.

Best part was the previous owner took her to Slee and had the entire 90K service done. Full front and rear axle service, PHH, and PM head gasket. Even had the leather on the driver’s seat replaced and seat cushion rebuilt. Took her to Toyota and had the starter replaced. Then figured out he needed a tow rig and not a rock crawler.

So it only came down to money, and the previous owner’s loan was with my credit union. It took 15 minutes to do the sale, and for nothing down (including sales tax!) on a four year loan she was mine and hauling crap to our new house.

I’ll skip the list of interior features. You know them. She cost about $50K new in 1995, and you got electric stuff and cruise control and air bags and leather and a sunroof and the kind of small interior on a big rig with solid axles that is a hallmark of cool and classic rigs that aren’t made anymore. The factory hand throttle is probably the coolest thing on this rig - it is an amazing feature for rock crawling with an auto transmission.

The 80 was everything I always wanted my XJ to be right out of the box. It had lockers and heavy duty axles and fit 33’s on a simple OME lift and was nice and quiet (relatively) even with the 33” TRXUS MT’s that quickly replaced the crappy BFG AT’s. And it was perfect for my family (since we have a minivan for the real family hauling duties). Now all that was left was to prove that an 80 on 33’s and 2.5” of lift could do the kind of wheeling I wanted to do: nothing extreme, but the 4+ Moab trails and 8-9 rated Colorado trails.

Which brings us to the exterior mods.

[Nay]

Or at least the story of the new exterior mods.

My first major trip out was to a trail called Old Chinaman’s Gulch and it’s a perfect trail to cut your teeth. You have some really hardcore optional stuff, but it’s a moderate trail if you take all the bypasses. So I took none of the bypasses, dragged about every mount and low hanging bit I could, got high centered on the most difficult obstacle and leaned the rear quarter panel into a tree. Gasping onlookers ran up to my wife who said, without looking:

“Is he is going to roll it?”

“No.”

“Well, that’s what it’s for.”



My older boys of course couldn’t believe that we got stuck. They still talk about it.

So we got the first winching and minor damage out of the way and generally figured out exactly what she can do. I was impressed, but this was no hardcore crawler…still, it was close. I was committed to no changes, but my wife pushed me to go for it if we could keep it cheap. She knows me.

The biggest thing that was bugging me was that 33” tires look tiny on an 80 with a lift, and I just couldn’t get past seeing a wheel well the size and shape of a 35” tire and having a suspension that didn’t utilize that given how much underbody dragging I had done. You come from the XJ world where 31's rub on an OME lift and you can't believe a wheel well this big. It was time to figure this thing out. If you spend $20K building a dual purpose rig and making just about every mistake along the way you should have learned a little something.

Which brings us to OME, which has 10” travel shocks, but contrary to what you want for rock crawling, the suspension travel is biased to up travel to accommodate a heavy rig with heavy mods. And I’m thinking “you have to be kidding me”. On a 3” lift I could have a 10” travel suspension and fit 35” tires and not have messed with my suspension geometry at all. Just springs and shocks...maybe a rear panhard. How can this possibly not be on the market for around the price of OME?

Another thing I learned the hard way during my XJ days is that a lot of extra weight and lift are not kind to an inline six at high altitude. Heavy mods don’t tend to add much in the way of rock crawling function (the weight and size tend of offset the “armor” factor for me). A bit more of that dangerous thinking and it seemed logical that if I just trimmed up the front and rear frame and added some tube protection I’d have the approach and departure of a taller lift while keeping the actual lift low and maximizing tire size. Plus, I could wack deer with abandon. Now I just needed the lift and time to get the fab work done (not done yet...wrecking the stock front bumper so far is free )

[NorCalSam]

Pics!!!!

[Nay]

So here it is:

I am running a prototype 3” lift from Frankie’s Offroad (I have no affiliation financial or otherwise…just ideas and results) with custom springs and 10” travel Bilstein shocks. The suspension is optimized for 5” of up travel and 5” down and runs 35” tires without rubbing (my rig is light so I am netting closer to 3.5").

In the big rocks this thing is a mountain goat (hence The Goat). So far, she can go anywhere I would take a rig of this size without a risk of serious damage. It still suffers in places where long wheelbase rigs suffer, but the balance of the suspension offroad is amazing, and onroad it is head and shoulders above OME medium in terms of ride quality.

Despite the lack of front flex (I have OME caster bushings which make things even worse) the overall balance is so good – a perfect realization of the lessons I learned from my XJ days, which is that maximizing tire size with minimal lift and getting creative with trimming and custom fabrication can yield outstanding results on a tight budget.

I have the Slee receiver mounted in the stock crossmember and it has held up to extraction pulls from the safety chain wings – another great mod on a budget.

Future mods:

Tube up a front bumper and trim the frame to keep it tucked up tight. The goals are improved angles, excellent strength, and materially no more weight than the stock bumper.

Cut and relocate the rear crossmember, trim in the frame, and build a rear tube bumper with d-ring mounts.

I’d like to keep the 4.10 gears and get a 4:1 t-case gear reduction if one ever comes on the market. That would be ideal. For now, “OD Off” is my highway 4.88’s and “PWR” is my around town 4.88’s. It’s no worse than it was with 33’s at 7,400 ft elevation.

Relocate rear exhaust (it is already shortened by 2 feet due to a trail mod and the pipe cutting that followed)

Rear adjustable panhard

Wife wants a snorkel.

“Whitecote” the entire rig to end all rust as I have some spotting on the hatch (hard to get real rot in Colorado).

In the end:

The Goat is a rig that for about $5K in mods including tires can handle the hardcore trails and at least some of the more fun lines with a family of six onboard just as easily as it handles ski trips to the High Country in bad weather and trips to the mall.

Action pics only! I’ll post some driveway pics tomorrow if I can get around to it.

Nay

[Nay]

First pic is F.O.R. 3" on 35's on the Spring Creek "Wall" (it is that steep...that is not camera angle)

Second is in the "Garden" on Spring Creek, which does not favor long wheelbases.

[Nay]

Getting stuck on OME and 33's. This is the kind of spot where 35's and a bit more lift make the difference. That is the stock mounted Slee receiver - we pulled from the side wing to get the rear quarter panel off the tree before winching forward.

Upper and lower eye adapters for the Bilstein shocks.

[Nay]

First pic is an obstacle where a group of TJ's behind us on 38's were getting stuck. Long live the long wheelbase

Second was OME on 33's.

Non-action pics to be posted tomorrow.

[Slomo]

Great write up and nice rig. Gotta love a white 80. It is nice to hear some "non affiliated" input on a product before it is mass markedted. Sounds like it will be a nice addition to the options for 80 owners. No one set up is right for everyone.

[Dusty]

nice truck Nay
What do these custom springs entail? are they a custom wind or were new spring perches used on a different spring? Nay do you know if springs from other trucks will fit on the 80 series? Got pics of these springs?

[Nay]

Originally Posted by Dusty

nice truck Nay
What do these custom springs entail? are they a custom wind or were new spring perches used on a different spring? Nay do you know if springs from other trucks will fit on the 80 series? Got pics of these springs?

They are version 2 of a custom wind. 80 spring perches are pretty specific...I can't say if any other coils fit but I'd be kinda suprised.

First pic shows the front coil vs. OME medium. The second shows the rear vs. OME medium. The shinier black coils are the custom.

The first was version 2 of the fronts and second pic version 1 of the rears...version 2 of the rears got longer and my rig got taller by a half inch, but no stinkbug.

If you increase length and keep spring rate the same you get a higher effective spring rate, and these coils are designed to just be at full extension when at full droop (with the Bilsteins allowing greater down travel). I could take my OME coils out with one hand with the Bilsteins installed at full droop.

[topend yobbo]

Very nice wagon there mate.
Good old white hides the scratches.

[TiredIronGRB]

Great color, I have found that the more scratches you have the less you notice them.

[Beowulf]

Nay,
Has there been a thread specific to your Bilsteins with a comparison to the OME regular and OME-L shocks? If yes, can you point me to it please. It seems to me that you'll lose shock travel with those eye-to-pin adapters.
-B-

[Bear80]

Originally Posted by Nay

If you increase length and keep spring rate the same you get a higher effective spring rate, and these coils are designed to just be at full extension when at full droop (with the Bilsteins allowing greater down travel). I could take my OME coils out with one hand with the Bilsteins installed at full droop.

Could you elaborate on the spring rate with a longer spring and clearify what effect the new springs have when designed to be at full extension.

[FirstToy]

Nay,
How close are you to full compression on the shocks front/rear respectively? How far did you drop the bumpstops?

Thanks, it looks really nice!

ps- shouldn't the eye ends be perpendicular to the axle? seems like you are binding at the limits w/ them parallel to the axle???

[Nay]

Originally Posted by Bear80

Could you elaborate on the spring rate with a longer spring and clearify what effect the new springs have when designed to be at full extension.

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Nay,
Has there been a thread specific to your Bilsteins with a comparison to the OME regular and OME-L shocks? If yes, can you point me to it please. It seems to me that you'll lose shock travel with those eye-to-pin adapters.
-B-

Both of these issues relate so I'll discuss them here (and this could be a good tech thread):

By using eye to eye adapters, you are simply compressing the shocks and changing the ratio of up to down travel. Let's take the example of OME heavy using the regular 10" travel OME shocks, because that is about a 3" lift. You would have about 7" of up travel and 3" down vs. the 6" up and 4" down on OME medium and 5" up and 5" down with eye adapters.

If you take a 10" travel eye to eye shock on this same 3" lift, and compress it 2" with eye adapters, you now have 5" of up travel and 5" down.

The key is that to run 35's you need to lower your bumpstops about 1.5". If you left the 7" of up travel then that shock travel is lost. By spacing down the travel with eye adpaters the bumpstop hits with about 1/2" of travel remaining, which allows for some compression of the bumpstop.

An L shock does something of the same thing within the 3"-4" lift range (it is a longer body shock, which also spaces down the travel), but eye to eye adapters open up the entire world of shock options and you lose the pin mounts, which are not ideal in my experience.

That 2" of extra down travel means that your coil has to extend an extra 2" or it may come off the tower. So you need a longer coil. Part of that comes from lift, but you want a higher spring rate on the taller lift for handing and control and load bearing, and a higher spring rate all things being equal would mean a shorter spring...so you are back to your problem of dropping coils off the tower.

So you determine the needed coil length for lift height and supsension travel and then design back to the effective spring rate.

We could draw all of this in a rectangular box to reflect the front and rear of the suspension as seen from the side. The height of the box is available shock travel. Static shock extension would be a line through the middle, and your coils should be able to handle compression to the top of the box without over-compression wear, and extension to the bottom of the box without falling off the coil tower, while providing necessary handling and load bearing.

Larger tires compress the top of the box down due to body contact. If you don't shift the shock travel down to extend the bottom of the box, then that travel is lost. Rock crawlers typically want a line biased to the top (less up travel to maximize tire size) whereas expedition travelers tend to want a line biased to the bottom (enough compression to handle a heavy and loaded rig at speed in rough terrain).

My setup draws the line through the middle - on an 80 you have to account for vehicle weight, especially with a large family, but I rock crawl and the more up travel you have the more that large body is going to lean down to the rocks and into the trees.

So eye adapters can help you tune your suspension to your needs and then you can choose shocks that optimize your balance and coils that work effectively within the "box" you have outlined for your needs.

Nay

[Nay]

Originally Posted by FirstToy

Nay,
How close are you to full compression on the shocks front/rear respectively? How far did you drop the bumpstops?

Thanks, it looks really nice!

ps- shouldn't the eye ends be perpendicular to the axle? seems like you are binding at the limits w/ them parallel to the axle???

Good call on the eye ends - I fixed them after I first installed but didn't take any new pics. I'm not sold on not having one eye each way, though, as the axle moves fore and aft as well as side to side.

I honestly haven't bothered with front stops because it won't compress anyway with the stock front arms (at least not for crawling). The rear stops are 2", but that is a bit more than is required (7/8" shock travel), depending on your assumptions.

If you assume the bumpstop will compress up to 1/2", then I have about 3/8" of shock travel left after that compression. If I do anything up front I'll probably glue a couple of hockey pucks to the spring pad just to protect it during higher speed running.

I'd probably do a 1 3/4" bumpstop extension to strike the balance for the rear (but remember I don't have flares if you think that matters).

Nay

[Slomo]

Excellent breakdown. If I understand correctly you said that you wound up (no pun intended) with version 2 coils. Has Frankie's done any more versions or is version 2 the final? Any complaints?

[fzj80kidpen]

Nay,
Nice write-up.
Who did you source your shock eye adapters from and which bilsteins did you go with? Part # techy.
I am going to go that route when I have to replace my monroe shocks soon.
Classic white rocks.

[Nay]

Originally Posted by Slomo

Excellent breakdown. If I understand correctly you said that you wound up (no pun intended) with version 2 coils. Has Frankie's done any more versions or is version 2 the final? Any complaints?

Version 2 is the final for production as I understand it (adjustments for height and rear spring rate in v2). The suspension just works beautifully on and offroad - I've never had a suspension that was pretty much doing what I wanted, when I wanted it, in varied terrain. Obviously we all work from our own expectations and requirements specific and unique to us, and mine are built off of a fairly long history as I narrated above.

I need a relatively low lift tuned for rock crawling and maximum tire size that will perform comfortably and reliably over the long highway and back country miles (paved and no so paved), and safely in potentially extreme weather. That is quite a balancing act, and I give huge kudos to F.O.R. for listening and making this a reality (again, no affiliation ).

What I can't comment on is the long run testing, but given the component quality I feel good about it and honestly haven't given it a second thought. As in all things, time will tell

Nay

[Nay]

Originally Posted by fzj80kidpen

Nay,
Nice write-up.
Who did you source your shock eye adapters from and which bilsteins did you go with? Part # techy.
I am going to go that route when I have to replace my monroe shocks soon.
Classic white rocks.

It's all prototype F.O.R. 3" kit. You want to look at the Bilstein 5100 series (or 6100/7100 if you really want to drop some coin) and do the measurements for your lift to pick the right shock. I recommend the 255/70 valving.

Bilstein has a ton of lifted application specific 5100's, but they don't list the specs, so either you go with one of the "standard" 5100's or call and talk to them. On a 3" lift the 10" travel standard 5100 in 255/70 valving should be an excellent choice. If you are less than 3", then it is time to do some measuring if you want an eye to eye application.

Nay

[KDan]

That is a nice rig. I wish my PO had been to Slee! You mentioned "the 33” TRXUS MT’s that quickly replaced the crappy BFG AT’s". I've always run BFG ATs or MTs and I'm thinking about switching to the TRXUS MTs. (Sorry gang, the Revos are too tame for me.)

I am wondering how the TRXUS MTs compare to the BFG MTs with regard to three things: a) offroad traction, b) Colorado winter sheet ice highway driving and c) tread life. I am pretty happy with siped BFG MTs on my pickup, but the Interco's are somewhat cheaper and IMO much better looking.

Dan

[Nay]

Originally Posted by KDan

That is a nice rig. I wish my PO had been to Slee! You mentioned "the 33” TRXUS MT’s that quickly replaced the crappy BFG AT’s". I've always run BFG ATs or MTs and I'm thinking about switching to the TRXUS MTs. (Sorry gang, the Revos are too tame for me.)

I am wondering how the TRXUS MTs compare to the BFG MTs with regard to three things: a) offroad traction, b) Colorado winter sheet ice highway driving and c) tread life. I am pretty happy with siped BFG MTs on my pickup, but the Interco's are somewhat cheaper and IMO much better looking.

Dan

My opinion:

1) TRXUS is a far better Colorado offroad tire than the BFG MT and AT for all conditions we face. I think they are every bit as good a rock tire as MTRs.

2) Amazing - this is the reason to buy them. If snow driving matters to you like it does to me (High Country highway and the occasional forest road or deep snow venture) you'll never go back. Let me put it this way: when I first changed from BFG AT's to TRXUS on my first rig, we also had an AWD Subaru with Bridgestone AT's. My 8" lifted XJ with rear Detroit and AWD was so good with these tires I ended up putting snow tires on the Subaru so it could keep up. That thing was downright scary in the snow on BFG AT ko's.

3) BFG's will probably last longer, especially the AT's. That is their tradeoff for a compound that doesn't maximize traction.

[smittycrusher]

I am seriously considering the Trxus also. I have a 285 as a spare. Love the looks, have not used it (which is good). I needed a 33 inch spare so I bought this one knowing I would like to get these next....So now I am thinking a little taller and skinnier...Trxus MT 255/85. So.. how are the sidewalls. They seem to do everything I need. I like snow, it is a DD, I also like rocks, so just curious on your sidewall experiences.

Smit

[Nay]

Originally Posted by smittycrusher

I am seriously considering the Trxus also. I have a 285 as a spare. Love the looks, have not used it (which is good). I needed a 33 inch spare so I bought this one knowing I would like to get these next....So now I am thinking a little taller and skinnier...Trxus MT 255/85. So.. how are the sidewalls. They seem to do everything I need. I like snow, it is a DD, I also like rocks, so just curious on your sidewall experiences.

Smit

They've taken everything I have thrown at them in the rocks with no issues, and they are comfortable around town and handle well without needing excessive PSI.

[Slomo]

Ok, I am a bit of a wus so I have to ask. How is the road noise? I am leaning towards some BFG AT's for practicality but I really want a more agressive tire. C'mon I need an excuse.

[nakman]

Ok can we reel this in before in digresses into another Trixie discussion.. .

Nay nice rig man, and great story up top t'was most enjoyable. I like how you've tried to take a different approach to things, yours is definitely not build up like every other 80 out there. plus you back your mods up with some pretty sound reason which definitely kicks you up a notch.

I especially like your light vs. heavy approach. Enjoy your last 15 minutes or so..

[reffug]

Very nice rig....

Thanks for contributing......

Interesting to see different suspension systems other than OME. I am sure it has probably given everyone a little food for thought and that is always a good thing.

[gearguywb]

Great looking rig....looks very cool with the removal of the flares.

[Cruiser Jimmy]

Nay,
Good to see other suspension options outside OME.

Was this designed out on paper first or did you start with mockups?