4wd question...

alteredraptor · 11-03-09, 03:45 PM

87 runner, stock ifs... my truck originally came with auto hubs, and the nut job i bought the truck from converted it to manual... now, he didnt do it the right way, and because of that the front end will stay connected or whatever the term is... youll have to excuse me, im new to having a 4x4... but, it just looks like he just took off the auto hubs, welded the nuts to the spindle, and put on the manual hubs with a few missing clips... now my question is, what needs to be done so both front wheels will disengage completely when the hubs go from locked to free??? czu only one wheel will disengage after the tire spins abit, but the other side will stay connected even after a couple miles of driving...

Downey · 11-03-09, 04:14 PM

The PO was not a nut job at all, the smartest thing he could have done was to install manual locking hubs (better milage, better power). Now how he went about it is a different question, he should not have welded anything!!!!! What I would really have to know is if (a) the vehicle came with Automatic Differential Disconnect (ADD), or (b) if it came with factory Automatic Locking Hubs. Is there a valve mounted onto the side of the front differential housing that has a vacuum hose going to it? If the front end was ADD (valve with vacuum hose) all PO needed to do was remove front drive plates and install manual hubs---no other parts or mods necessary. If front end had genuine Toyota Automatic Locking Hubs (which would have been broken the instant the vehicle was first put into 4wd), then you have to remove the Automatics, install an installation kit, then install the new manual hubs.

toy4xfun · 11-03-09, 05:12 PM

hey we need pics. jim did they have add in 87? i am not sure.

alteredraptor · 11-03-09, 08:48 PM

im not sayin hes a nut job for puttin manual hubs on, im glad he did. im sayin hes a nutjob for teh way he did it... im bad at wording things... theres no valve or vacuum hose on the front diff... two of the pics show the wrong adjusting nut, which was welded, and the other is the little sticker on the glove box with directions on how to go from two wheel to four wheel... so if any one can shed some light on this subject for me itd be appreciated

alteredraptor · 11-03-09, 08:50 PM

if any more pictures are wanted ill get them

liljlandon · 11-03-09, 08:55 PM

Wow, thats messed up... I would recomend picking up a IFS system from someone doing a SAS and slap it on there...

If you were to turn it without the manual hub on, does it turn the cv axle to? If not, then it seems like you might simply have a sticky hub... If so, Maybe he turned the heat up a little high and melted more than he wanted?

KLF · 11-03-09, 08:58 PM

No, they hadn't dreamed up the ADD system in '87 yet, they were still using those awful automatic hubs. My son's '87 4Runner had them on it, we chucked them into the trash and installed AISINs.

If that lock nut is indeed welded to the spindle, you're in a world of trouble. I have no idea how you're gonna get that off, I guess a lot of patient work with a Dremel and a bunch of cutoff wheels. Once you get them off, you're probably gonna have to get new spindles.

What a doofus.

liljlandon · 11-03-09, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLF

No, they hadn't dreamed up the ADD system in '87 yet, they were still using those awful automatic hubs. My son's '87 4Runner had them on it, we chucked them into the trash and installed AISINs.

If that lock nut is indeed welded to the spindle, you're in a world of trouble. I have no idea how you're gonna get that off, I guess a lot of patient work with a Dremel and a bunch of cutoff wheels. Once you get them off, you're probably gonna have to get new spindles.

What a doofus.

If one side works, he just needs to replace the other side. Do you think there would be a safety issue with leaving them, if it was infact just a sticky hub?

2ndGenToyotaFan · 11-03-09, 09:06 PM

Have you taken apart the locking hubs? Did you follow through the rebuild thread like I told you to 2 months ago?

The problem is in the locking hub, but I would not suggest driving around like that anyway. It's not safe. You should watch craigslist for a whole new IFS front end, and swap out the spindles because that welded stuff is just asking for trouble.

The truck had Auto hubs, now you have manual hubs, and instead of spending the $30 to do the swap right, they tacked the Auto hub lock nut on, and halfassed the job. What the welding has done to the spindle is unknown, and the spindle is what holds the tire on, so go get new spindles. You do not want to be the cause of an accident, or responsible for any injury or death due to a problem you were aware of.

alteredraptor · 11-03-09, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liljlandon

Wow, thats messed up... I would recomend picking up a IFS system from someone doing a SAS and slap it on there...

If you were to turn it without the manual hub on, does it turn the cv axle to? If not, then it seems like you might simply have a sticky hub... If so, Maybe he turned the heat up a little high and melted more than he wanted?

the passenger side cv axle does indeed turn with the hub being free... while the driver side spins for about 2 seconds, than its free

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLF

No, they hadn't dreamed up the ADD system in '87 yet, they were still using those awful automatic hubs. My son's '87 4Runner had them on it, we chucked them into the trash and installed AISINs.

If that lock nut is indeed welded to the spindle, you're in a world of trouble. I have no idea how you're gonna get that off, I guess a lot of patient work with a Dremel and a bunch of cutoff wheels. Once you get them off, you're probably gonna have to get new spindles.

What a doofus.

it is welded to the spindle

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ndGenToyotaFan

Have you taken apart the locking hubs? Did you follow through the rebuild thread like I told you to 2 months ago?

The problem is in the locking hub, but I would not suggest driving around like that anyway. It's not safe. You should watch craigslist for a whole new IFS front end, and swap out the spindles because that welded stuff is just asking for trouble.

The truck had Auto hubs, now you have manual hubs, and instead of spending the $30 to do the swap right, they tacked the Auto hub lock nut on, and halfassed the job. What the welding has done to the spindle is unknown, and the spindle is what holds the tire on, so go get new spindles. You do not want to be the cause of an accident, or responsible for any injury or death due to a problem you were aware of.

yes i did... i took them both completely off, cleaned them regreased them with the right amount of grease, but that didnt help, it did help when it came to turn the dial, tho... as for watching craigslist, ive only seen one so far, but by the time i saw it and emailed him, it was already sold... i did see a perfect donor truck at my local boneyard, but i didnt have enough money

2ndGenToyotaFan · 11-03-09, 09:30 PM

With the hubs off can you turn the axle shaft freely? Something's not right here.

alteredraptor · 11-03-09, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ndGenToyotaFan

With the hubs off can you turn the axle shaft freely? Something's not right here.

are you talkin about the entire hub assembly being off?

2ndGenToyotaFan · 11-03-09, 09:38 PM

Just the locking hub. With the weld you will not be ablt to take the whole hub off.

alteredraptor · 11-03-09, 09:41 PM

i do not know... what do you suggest i do

2ndGenToyotaFan · 11-03-09, 09:49 PM

I was thinking wrong for a minute there, forget about the axle shaft turning. The locking hub is the only link between the axle shaft and the wheel hub where the tire mounts. If the axle will not stop spinning, then the locking hub is staying in the locked position for some reason...

The bottom line is you need new spindles. Once you have them, we can help you through the rest of the issues.

You don't need to worry about hurting the axles, diff or anything if the hub won't unlock. I drive around a lot of the winter with my hubs locked. The ADD trucks just have drive flanges, so the cv's are spinning all the time, etc.

alteredraptor · 11-03-09, 10:00 PM

im not concerned about them spinning all the time, i havent had trouble with them... i just want to have them working like they should... now my only trouble is to find toyota parts in wisconsin... thats within reasonable driving distance...

toy4xfun · 11-04-09, 02:50 AM

i have what you need but i am in wv, also i might have a set of halfshafts if i do they will need new boots.

alteredraptor · 11-05-09, 10:51 PM

i cant afford much, but if you can ship them out my way, that would be fricken cool of you

NorCalBorn · 11-05-09, 11:09 PM

I feel stupid asking this but can you get a better resolution pic for me because I can't see from the pic above where it is specifically welded to the spindle and what part is. There were people who would deliberately weld the spring clip to the spindle because under heavy articulation it would pop free if you weren't running the correct shim behind it along with the 12mm nut and thick brass washer inside the chrome locking housing.

It could also just be welded to the bearing washer/flange and still, if you follow the next step, easily remedied..

If it is as simple as just a welded spring clip, or worse, even a slightly tacked nut it is easy ehough to get a narrow point dremel bit in there and zip the weld down enough so when you stick on the socket you can break it loose, tighten slightly, knock off enough to get the nut off, then goto town and clean up the rest.

Reassemble with the correct shim, replacce the brass bushings if need be, the spring clip and also the nut and thrust washer.

Sorry for the overload post, I hope you post another pic and this might help you.

alteredraptor · 11-05-09, 11:14 PM

id say sure... but the only form of digital pictures i can take are from my out of service phone... and its not exactly the best of cameras, but its all that i have to take quick pictures so i can post things... otherwise i gotta pull out the old 35mm, use all the shots on the film, go to the store, and have them put the pics on a disc... i want a nice digital camera, but i cant afford one yet... as for the post overload oh well, i do the same thing sometimes...

toy4xfun · 11-06-09, 05:11 AM

hey nor cal it looks to me like it is welded to the washers but at firs i was wondering how he would get them out of the spindles. but when there is a will there is a way. alteredraptor the half shafts i have have been in my garage since 1997 the boots are shot and as the pm you sent me that was your main concern, so you will still need new boots. if you still want them i will check on how much it will cost for shipping just let me know.

Bogo · 11-06-09, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alteredraptor

now my only trouble is to find toyota parts in wisconsin... thats within reasonable driving distance...

Call Dan (cruiserdan) at American Toyota and order them. Tell him you are on ih8mud for your discount.

I order most of my parts as I'm over an hour from the nearest dealer.

alteredraptor · 11-06-09, 01:16 PM

id still like them, the hard part i have is finding a good set of boots... ive done them before, but the last one i did was a cheap boot and ripped right after i put it back on my buddies truck

toy4xfun · 11-06-09, 01:53 PM

ok i will let you know what it is going to cost to ship the half shafts i just seen your message about the spindles so i need to check them. but i will get back with you tomorrow ok.

alteredraptor · 11-06-09, 09:40 PM

sounds good...

alteredraptor · 11-18-09, 05:49 PM

before i forget, if any one reads... what is the difference between the bearing adjusting nuts anyway???
(auto lock and manual lock)??

2ndGenToyotaFan · 11-18-09, 07:33 PM

The auto hubs only have one thick wheel bearing adjusting nut. The hub holds it once it's adjusted (or something like that). Manual hubs have 2 thin adjusting nuts with a locking washer between them. If you swap to Manual hubs you need to get the lock nuts to go along with them.

toy4xfun · 11-18-09, 07:37 PM

i will have to look. i know that i had autos on a 4x4 toyota van and changed them to manual. and i used everything from the donor an 87 pickup, and there was a difference. i just can not remember at this time. your best bet is to hit the you pull it lot and take the spindle off leaving the hubs untouched that will meen that the halfshafts will go with you to. then just reinstall when you get home.

alteredraptor · 11-18-09, 11:01 PM

i would... but the only issue id have is that the only place thats close enough to me, isnt the cleanest of places and i have no way to lift the vehicle up at the yard... and id have to lay in the mud for an hour... so im just gonna try and save the ones i have now and get the converting kit and hope for the best

alteredraptor · 11-18-09, 11:05 PM

if i had better tools, and a better boneyard near me i would get the parts needed