oil leaking

apeterson · 08-29-08, 09:28 AM

hey guys... most of you have seen pics of my truck... 87 4runner with the 22re.

had the timing chain done about 2 years ago and it has always leaked oil since then. about 3-4 drops every time you would drive it... I would guess about 3-4 quarter size. took it on a 4 hour or so drive (longest in a while but not the longest ever) and it now seems to be leaking more (like at least double that). I know the oil was over full as I put probably about 1/3 of a quart too much in there before I left on the trip.

can anyone think of why this is leaking more??? can anyone help with a solution that does not consist of taking off everything to change that gasket???

can you change that gasket without taking the head or oil pan off???

thanks guys!!!

WristPin · 08-29-08, 09:54 AM

if the timing chain cover is leaking, resealing it costs only 15 bucks for parts from napa. the head and pan do not have to be removed.

toyota does not use a gasket for the oil pan. they use OE silicone called FIPG. if you used one, thats where the leak is.

Its possible the end of the head gasket was tater'd when installing the cover. that can cause a leak.
for that job, you dont have to pull the cover

apeterson · 08-29-08, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WristPin

if the timing chain cover is leaking, resealing it costs only 15 bucks for parts from napa. the head and pan do not have to be removed.

toyota does not use a gasket for the oil pan. they use OE silicone called FIPG. if you used one, thats where the leak is.

Its possible the end of the head gasket was tater'd when installing the cover. that can cause a leak.
for that job, you dont have to pull the cover

what do I have to take off the get it resealed? how come the hanes manual tells you to take off the head and oil pan..

2ndGenToyotaFan · 08-29-08, 01:16 PM

If you don't pull the head or the pan, you have to slide it straight in, and that usually scrapes off the sealant you put on there, and it's hard to seal up... So it's advisable to drop the pan for that reason alone...

Haynes sucks, any more questions?

apeterson · 08-29-08, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ndGenToyotaFan

Haynes sucks, any more questions?

haynes tells you to pull the head and pan... and I really dont want to do either.... but just assuming I did how long does it take a monkey like me to pull that head or the pan??? but then I need a new head gasket right??? what exactly does the Toyota manual say.... do you have one in PDF???

so are you saying that you could pull one or the other??? if so which one would you pull??

Hilux · 08-29-08, 02:01 PM

Depends on where your leak is.

I am recovering from a bad one myself.

You wouldn't believe me if I told you...

If it's at the top you have to push/ pull the TC cover like 2ndGen said and that's a...royal PITA

If it's at the bottom you might get lucky with a re-doing the pan.

I whole heatedly agree with WristPin on the FIPG. But IMO, until you know you have cured the leak, I would use a cork gasket. Reason is, no let me just tell you what happened to me. I put an engine together, it leaked bad as soon as it ran. I tried to replace the TC cover gaskets in frame....oil pan had to come off. That didn't fix it, so all that labor was for nothing. I later removed the engine and FIPG the whole timing cover...haven't run it yet, but it required oil pan removal yet again. I was getting tired of getting that blank blank off every time I have to drop the pan. It's very labor and time consuming to remove that **** so unless I knew for sure where it was coming from AND I fixed it, I would use a cork gasket.

Two things important to my situation:

My truck is an 84

And I could not find my leak at 1st.

Hey this might help, and by all means Mud, if it's wrong speak up.

One thing I found useful for holding the gaskets in place for a in-frame gasket replacement, was spray adhesive. I was stressed at 1st on how I could hold the gaskets up, and slide the cover in at the same time. Just spry the gaskets, and place them on the block? I don't have experience with it, but it seems it wouldn't hurt anything?

Other than that, I would just run a bead where the block and head meet, spray the gaskets, put them in place. And install the cover and torque.

WristPin · 08-29-08, 03:55 PM

that haynes manual is garbage. read my sig line.

i have done dozens of timing chains. i would say 90% come off and go on with out struggle. when you go to put it on, you use rtv to hold the gasket to the cover. the head gasket is graphite, so as long as you clean the top of the cover and the gasket it self, it will seal. but for good measure, i always put a dab of rtv on there. the oil pan is designed to hold in the FIPG. it has a recess for it.
the way i do things, the head gasket and the pan never leak.

i cant tell you where YOUR leak is. if i had telepathic skills, i would be a very wealthy man.

KLF · 08-29-08, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hilux

I would use a cork gasket.

NO. NO. NO. NO!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hilux

My truck is an 84

Exactly. The pre-85 oil pan is DIFFERENT. It uses a cork gasket. Any 22R/RE 85+ uses NO gasket, just FIPG.

I've held both pans in my hand, the sealing surface on the earlier pan is different, it has a raised ridge that "digs" into the gasket. The later pan is the opposite, it has a depressed ridge to hold a valley of FIPG. If you put a cork gasket on a later pan, it may (but not always) leak. This is why you sometimes can't trust what the computers at some of the parts stores tell you. If you went into AutoZone/Pep Boys and told them you needed a pan gasket for a '86 22RE engine, they would hand you a cork one. The dealer will type in your VIN and say "no such thing, you want a tube of this black stuff".

chesshircat · 08-31-08, 05:27 PM

SSSHHHHHH, don't mention the Hayne's Manual around here, they'll get on you, specially that Wristy cat. I think you need to figure out where your leak is 1st, then you could probably get by with pulling the head or pan only along with the TC cover. But I would take the time to do it right the 1st time.

Then again I haven't seen a 22R in probaly 15 yrs, but I do think I remember the head extending out over the TC cover

Jukelemon · 08-31-08, 06:39 PM

Find the leak and report back. All else up to this point is conjecture.

apeterson · 09-02-08, 06:38 AM

ok guys cleaned up the engine good and actually was surprised what I found... not coming from the timing cover at all seems like it is coming from the head here... see where the pencil is pointing... please please tell me I dont need a head gasket???

Hilux · 09-02-08, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLF

NO. NO. NO. NO!!!

Exactly. The pre-85 oil pan is DIFFERENT. It uses a cork gasket. Any 22R/RE 85+ uses NO gasket, just FIPG.

I've held both pans in my hand, the sealing surface on the earlier pan is different, it has a raised ridge that "digs" into the gasket. The later pan is the opposite, it has a depressed ridge to hold a valley of FIPG. If you put a cork gasket on a later pan, it may (but not always) leak. This is why you sometimes can't trust what the computers at some of the parts stores tell you. If you went into AutoZone/Pep Boys and told them you needed a pan gasket for a '86 22RE engine, they would hand you a cork one. The dealer will type in your VIN and say "no such thing, you want a tube of this black stuff".

I only meant for that to be temporary.

See, in my case,

I now have to turn right back around again and remove the engine I just put back in it.

And I'm getting real tired of having to get that stuff off...If I had used the cork it would not be a big deal. Pull the bolts and go. Now I have (with what i got) a PITA job of getting the FIPG off, AGAIN! (again = 4th time in less than a month?)

It's ok, I've only got to get to school full time, so

fucking Toyota Gods...

Hilux · 09-02-08, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apeterson

ok guys cleaned up the engine good and actually was surprised what I found... not coming from the timing cover at all seems like it is coming from the head here... see where the pencil is pointing... please please tell me I dont need a head gasket???

1: Try and tighten the hidden bolt under the distributor drive gear.

2: The gasket looks mighty thin there so, I believe it won't work...but wonders never cease.

3: If all else fails you could try to run a stop leak in the oil...and as much as I H8 to say it, and you don't want to pull the head, it might work out for you.

4: You could be on your 4th engine removal, I'd be happy to have to just remove the head if I were you...(have the head redone. That will also help with oil consumption and will add life to the head. New HG means "New top end" PM, IIRC)

5: Looks like the TC has been pulled. That can tear the HG material sometimes.

KLF · 09-02-08, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hilux

I only meant for that to be temporary.

Oh I see now. So now it will only leak temporarily. Then you get to peel it all back off and do it the right way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hilux

See, in my case,

I now have to turn right back around again and remove the engine I just put back in it.

And I'm getting real tired of having to get that stuff off...If I had used the cork it would not be a big deal. Pull the bolts and go. Now I have (with what i got) a PITA job of getting the FIPG off, AGAIN! (again = 4th time in less than a month?)

The fact that you're having to pull an engine 4 times in one month speaks VOLUMES about your mechanic skills. Now things are starting to make sense...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hilux

3: If all else fails you could try to run a stop leak in the oil...and as much as I H8 to say it, and you don't want to pull the head, it might work out for you.

Great. Ya put that crap in your engine. So it will gunk up the oil pump, filter, oil galleys, etc. Might as well just junk the engine now...

WristPin · 09-02-08, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apeterson

ok guys cleaned up the engine good and actually was surprised what I found... not coming from the timing cover at all seems like it is coming from the head here... see where the pencil is pointing... please please tell me I dont need a head gasket???

you could try and tighten the hidden bolt. it wont do much good if its already good and tight. but if it is loose perhaps it will allow the leak.

you know which bolt i mean? under the distributor shaft...

otherwise, the gasket needs to be replaced.

Jukelemon · 09-02-08, 04:54 PM

Why not pull the TC cover and FIPG a bit?

There are no pressure issues to be concerned with right?

Am I missing something?

apeterson · 09-03-08, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jukelemon

Why not pull the TC cover and FIPG a bit?

There are no pressure issues to be concerned with right?

Am I missing something?

this is what I was thinking of doing... I know it might be a hack... but if I can get by for a while... I would... what does everyone think???

WristPin · 09-03-08, 11:49 AM

do it.

Hilux · 09-03-08, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jukelemon

Why not pull the TC cover and FIPG a bit?

There are no pressure issues to be concerned with right?

Am I missing something?

Just a tot, but aint his truck IFS?

If so, wouldn't it be easier to pull the head? Instead of the pan?

And for the life of me, I can't figure out how you would apply the FIPG in order for it properly seal (that area) once you pushed the TC cover back on.

Jukelemon · 09-05-08, 05:13 PM

Well, first off, you don't have to pull the pan. You have to lower the pan enough to get the TC cover off.

I am not sure how you don't understand about the FIPG. I didn't and many others have not removed the head to do the timing chain. I placed FIPG on the top of the TC cover which matches the head and all I had to do is make sure the head gasket did not bend back when putting the TC cover back on.

0 issues and I have no leaks.

Now, my head gasket is original. 175k miles. I can't imagine his is in any worse shape.

But it could be I guess.