Timing Chain Question

[VA.CRUISER]

I've got a timing chain quetion for you 22R/E guys. I have a '88 2wd with a 22R while changing the timing chain,when I installed the new sprockets with the #1 cylinder at TDC the woodruff keys are pointing at each other. So with this the dots on the sprockets do not line up with the bright links at the same time. The old setup was the exact same way, so is this right or is something out ? I've turned the engine over with a rachet with nothing hitting just wanted to know if I need to check anything before finishing it up.

Hope this makes sense TAT,
Burl

[tlcruiser66]

I wouldn't worry about the links lining up, as long as your crank key and cam dowel are lined up at #1 TDC at 12 O'clock you should be alright, just make sure they still line up after 2 full rotations of the cam and you'll be fine.

[Jukelemon]

I don't agree at all with that.

The chain markers are there for a reason-why ignore them? I don't know the exact mechanical reason BUT I believe it has to do with making sure the tension on the chain/timing of the crank/cam remain in spec.

I am not sure about a 22r but on a 22re, the cam sprocket dot/marker for the chain link is pointing at 12 o clock and the Crank sprocket dot/marker for the chain link is at 6 o clock when the engine is at TDC. As well, at TDC, both the crank and cam keys are pointed at 12 o clock and Piston 1 intake valve is open.

Hope that helps.

[KLF]

It sounds to me like you have the cam 180d out of phase. I'm agree -- those marks are there for a reason, I wouldn't ignore them.

[Hilux]

The TDC mark is the same as the BDC only the cam is on the (correct me if I'm wrong) #4 cylinder firing position.

since #1 and #4 (and #2 and #3 share the same stroke only different time) are on the same stroke but different time.

I agree w/ KLF.

I believe you put the crank at TDC and if you would have looked the distributor would be pointing at #4 cylinder

[Jukelemon]

No, at TDC the dist is pointing to #1 not #4.

Confident about this since I just did the timing chain 6 weeks ago.

[Hilux]

Originally Posted by Jukelemon

No, at TDC the dist is pointing to #1 not #4.

Confident about this since I just did the timing chain 6 weeks ago.

it's a 50/50 shot


yes the ***CAM*** is at TDC, NOT in his case though. One full rotation and the TDC mark will come up again, only it's for the compression stroke for #4 and at the intake stroke for #1...Intake: *not compression*

[Jukelemon]

I see your point Hilux but you are missing the big point.

That is when you do a timing chain r and r, the engine should be at TDC as indicated by the intake #1 being open. At this point, the point of reference for the entire process of r and r, the dist is pointing to #1 piston.

That is where you should remove the dist and where it goes back.

There is no 50/50 chance that the dist is pointing to #1 at TDC when the #1 intake is open. It is 100% or you have intalled the components incorrectly.

[EVILSPOTTER]

If the intake valve on# 1 is open wouldn't that be intake stroke? I get to TDC of compression stroke by rolling around to dist@ #1 with both valves closed.

[Hilux]

all of this is better explained in the setting valve lash procedure

You can have the "mark" at TDC and the cam 180 from TDC.

Originally Posted by VA.CRUISER

the woodruff keys are pointing at each other.

Which I believe is the case for the OP.

[Hilux]

Originally Posted by VA.CRUISER

I've got a timing chain quetion for you 22R/E guys. I have a '88 2wd with a 22R while changing the timing chain,when I installed the new sprockets with the #1 cylinder at TDC the woodruff keys are pointing at each other. So with this the dots on the sprockets do not line up with the bright links at the same time. The old setup was the exact same way, so is this right or is something out ? I've turned the engine over with a rachet with nothing hitting just wanted to know if I need to check anything before finishing it up.

Hope this makes sense TAT,
Burl

DUH! (self duh )

Mr. Ives, to answer a question about safe rotation. Move the TDC mark to what would be BDC that is to say move the mark to its most southern point, straight down. This will draw all the pistons halfway down the cyliders and have NO CYLINDERS at any point sitting flush with the top if the block. Then you are free to move the cam any way you want w/o fear of hitting a piston at the top of its stroke.


On a positive interference motor ALWAYS move the pistons down off the top to be able to turn the cam. Or else the compression in the vale springs could cause a sudden loss of control and slam a valve into a piston.

[beatdown83fj60]

Wow long day at work so that math is killing me right now but I will share my experience. I had an 84 4Runner. It had a 22r but a newer (86-95 I believe) head. I bought a timing chain kit at NAPA. Part of the kit was alright. I ended up having to -I Think- use the lower sprocket made for my 84 22r, use the chain/guides from the 84 kit, and the upper sprocket from the 86+ kit. I think...It's been a while. If you search my username and "timing chain" you will find it. Sometimes before you own a vehicle things get changed and in turn you need to piece stuff together. With the 84 22r kit the chain links would not line up like they should until I put the cam sprocket on that belonged with the head. I also had to degree the cam a little differently which I have no idea how I did right but I did.

[PurpleFJ62]

I remember having a similar thing on my 3vz. it has a belt, but the key argument is the same. on an oem belt there are painted marks that you are supposted to line up with the painted dots on the engine crank and cam sprokets. After several attempts of doing this i failed and said screw it. I am not sure why they are on there, but as long as you have the Cam and crank timed correctly the engine will operate as it should. It dosent matter how the chain or belt is orientated. Shoot for the timing marks to be correct, thats what is really important.

[Jukelemon]

Guys I understand what you are getting at BUT that is NOT how to do a proper r and r of the timing chain.

As described by the FSM, TDC, or the reference point in FSM for beginning and end of the process, is described as the #1 intake valve being open.

It is really moot as to what happens at 180 degrees of that because if that is where you are, then you need to turn the crank 180 degrees and get it to where I stated. If not, then you cannot align the chain marks with the sprockets and it does matter or else it would not be mentioned to do so.

Maybe the engine will run OK, I don't know. But it is described as such for a reason in my opinion.

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

At TDC both #1 valves are closed. I guarantee it. You must be misreading the FSM. If a valve was open at TDC it would be being crushed by the piston.

I'm not sure what the problem is at this point, but if you got the cam and crank out of sync, here's how to get it back. Install the cam gear, and turn the cam shaft till the timing mark is at 11:30 and both #1 valves are closed (you will be able to wiggle the rockers), if you can't turn the cam it's because the pistons are up stopping the valves from opening, so you will need to turn the crank to give the cam room to turn.

Pull plugs, and stick a feeler in the #1 spark plug hole, turn the crank either way as long as the #1 piston comes up. Turn the crank back and forth till you have it centered at the top of it's travel. Having a helper is good for this.

Now remove cam sprocket and install timing chain and sprockets so that the bright marks on the chain match the timing marks on the cam and crank. Check that the rotor on the distributor points to the #1 spark plug wire on the cap and button it up.

[VA.CRUISER]

Thanks for all the help everyone I'll check things out tomorrow and report back LOL

Thanks again
Burl and yes I'm named after Burl Ives

[KLF]

All I can say is I'm glad some of you guys aren't working on MY engine... wow.

[Jukelemon]

OK, shit. I am wrong. I misthought open versus closed. The rocker can be moved for intake 1 when you are at TDC. That would mean intake 1 is closed. DUH!!!

Sorry guys. My bad. I was thinking backwards ) :

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

No worries Juke

[VA.CRUISER]

Sorry for just now getting back to everyone (have been working 12hr nights for past 2 weeks ) Just wanted to thank everyone for their help ended up being I was at TDC on #4 instead of #1 guess I have a few things to learn about these 22R's . I did find out what was causing all the noise at start up the connecting rods are a little loose on the crank but what can I expect with 326,000 +

Thanks again to everyone,
Burl

[theo]

Originally Posted by Jukelemon

OK, shit. I am wrong. I misthought open versus closed. The rocker can be moved for intake 1 when you are at TDC. That would mean intake 1 is closed. DUH!!!

Sorry guys. My bad. I was thinking backwards ) :

Sweet! Someone besides me with his foot in his mouth! Geez, It was getting lonely holding down the fort all by myself . . .

[foxfab]

It has to be #1 TDC of the COMPRESSION stroke....