22RE or V6?!

[Jukelemon]

Originally Posted by spressomon

Juke!!! You're back!!! Long time no see any posts since you left the hundy world!

Thanks man. WTF is a hundy? ( :

I took a vacation from life LOL!!!

[chicago]

Originally Posted by Mace

Just get a turbo 22R runner.

Problem solved

is it the speed of your 60 that is killing ya?

Yeah...
I was ready to shoot bullets into it coming home from DV last weekend. I had a psychiatric vacation on the side of the road where I had to pull over. There was lots of swaring to be heard for miles!
Granted, Ive done every mod possible to KILL the performance and in the end, its my OWN fault...35-40 MPH in 2nd gear up over Mammoth pass and temps running high was NO FUN! The whole trip home was misery. I got the "stink eye" from an old lady in the 2 lane stretch after Bridgeport...
Aside from the longer trips...I LOVE THE RIG! Just something HAS to be done and its either a new rig, or V8, or the possiblity or 2FE and H55, but Im still not convinced that the latter will make it much better.
Just the same, from what Im hearing here, I just might be in the same boat with a "FO Runnah" that is modded too with either motor in question.

Just considering the options while sticking with my love of toyotas!

All the help and responses are very appreciated!

Chicago

[Wayneraintree]

Find a 12HT Toy diesel for you 62 with a H55 and get better mileage, longer fuel range, torque, and the turbo and overdrive would help ya out...

[spressomon]

chicago:

I see your 62 project hasn't cost you enough $$$ yet . You better see if you can even FIT into a mini first .


Oooops...I just saw that 'spend money light' light up on your windshield buddy

[bkg]

Originally Posted by Jukelemon

I have never owned a 3.0 but I have owned several 22re's. If 22re's have just as many issues, then the 3.0 MUST be one hell of an engine. The 22re's have very few issues in my opinion/experience and timing chains are a maint item and really should not be considered an "issue". Never had HG issues in any of the trucks I have owned and do not have one now on my 175k mile truck.

But I follow what you mean.

I've done about 6 head gaskets. I know of a number of cracked heads as well. Heck, there are about three trucks on craigslist in MN right now with blown HG's (22re's).

[Jukelemon]

Originally Posted by bkg

I've done about 6 head gaskets. I know of a number of cracked heads as well. Heck, there are about three trucks on craigslist in MN right now with blown HG's (22re's).

Hmm. Odd. You are the first I have heard who have stated such problems with the 22re. Of course, not saying that do not exist just that I have not heard a theme of HG issues with the 22re.

I guess I have been lucky.

Take care

[Mace]

Originally Posted by chicago

Yeah...
I was ready to shoot bullets into it coming home from DV last weekend. I had a psychiatric vacation on the side of the road where I had to pull over. There was lots of swaring to be heard for miles!
Granted, Ive done every mod possible to KILL the performance and in the end, its my OWN fault...35-40 MPH in 2nd gear up over Mammoth pass and temps running high was NO FUN! The whole trip home was misery. I got the "stink eye" from an old lady in the 2 lane stretch after Bridgeport...
Aside from the longer trips...I LOVE THE RIG! Just something HAS to be done and its either a new rig, or V8, or the possiblity or 2FE and H55, but Im still not convinced that the latter will make it much better.
Just the same, from what Im hearing here, I just might be in the same boat with a "FO Runnah" that is modded too with either motor in question.

Just considering the options while sticking with my love of toyotas!

All the help and responses are very appreciated!

Chicago

The money you put into a mini making it do what you want it to would easily be solved with a V8 conversion.

And, in the end, you would still have your 60.

Mini's are cool, but they weigh almost as much as your 60. With a 4 banger..

The auto is killing you, but more motor would make it considerably better.

Bob's actually downright fun! And he only has a 302...

[chicago]

Originally Posted by Mace

The money you put into a mini making it do what you want it to would easily be solved with a V8 conversion.

And, in the end, you would still have your 60.

Mini's are cool, but they weigh almost as much as your 60. With a 4 banger..

The auto is killing you, but more motor would make it considerably better.

Bob's actually downright fun! And he only has a 302...

You finally got Bob running...havent been in the HC section in a while...
Im starting to realize your statement above.
I contacted iaintscared to enlist his wisdom on the V8 conversion.
Ive always LOVED the minis, but I sure do LOVE my cruiser too, and ive got a TON of time and money into it already...
Whats a little more?!

Thanks for all the help gents!
Its been extremely helpful in making a decision.

Chicago

[chicago]

Originally Posted by spressomon

chicago:

I see your 62 project hasn't cost you enough $$$ yet . You better see if you can even FIT into a mini first .


Oooops...I just saw that 'spend money light' light up on your windshield buddy

HA HA!
YOU of all people know where to find the "spend money light" on a cruiser!

How much do you have into your 100 series now?

Chicago

[spressomon]

Originally Posted by chicago

HA HA!
YOU of all people know where to find the "spend money light" on a cruiser!

How much do you have into your 100 series now?

Chicago

You must have just gotten off work eh?! Hmmm...I think about $8k


Seriously...can you fit into a mini?

[chicago]

Originally Posted by spressomon

You must have just gotten off work eh?! Hmmm...I think about $8k


Seriously...can you fit into a mini?

Im thinkin you need to add a ZERO to that 8!

I sat in an 87 4 runner last year on Blotch and it felt quite comfortable...
If Alvaro can fit in a taco, I definately can. I may be big, but Im NIMBLE!

Chicago

[LeftCoast]

If you're looking at 89-95 Runners, most will be 3.0 V-6 automatics anyway, so GL getting a 22re.

IMAO, you should get a nice runner with a blown 3.0 (@ $1000 in the South) and get a motor to swap or get the rebuild kit from Ted (ENGNBLDR.COM) and go to town. A fresh motor in a great body is something you can really build on (and is also what every guy's looking for in a woman!).

[spressomon]

Originally Posted by chicago

Im thinkin you need to add a ZERO to that 8!

I sat in an 87 4 runner last year on Blotch and it felt quite comfortable...
If Alvaro can fit in a taco, I definately can. I may be big, but Im NIMBLE!

Chicago

You might, if you haven't already, want to sit in a mini. The new Taco, which Alvaro has, is actually quite spacious in the drivers seat...far more so than even my 100! The new Taco ain't your father's Taco

[Downey]

Originally Posted by ms018kmf

I see you saying this frequently. Why do you market products for 3VZE's if this is how you feel? Not knockin ya, but are your products the silver bullets to fix those V6's woes?

The original 1988, and possibly 1989 3.0's were a poor block design, barely enough meat in the casting to hold the crank in place. Most engine rebuilders would not attempt to rebuild one of those early blocks.
Yes, head gasket issues were (past tense) a bitch. One of mine had 3 head gasket jobs.
To me, the biggest issue is that Toyota gave those engines 150 h.p., put 100 of it where you get to use it every day, then put the other 50 up at 4500 r.p.m. Headers give an 11 h.p. gain, but leave the other 50 ponies upstairs. Headers with 2.5" exhaust gives a 14 h.p. gain, and brings the 50 h.p. down where you get to use it every day (i.e. feels like a 50 h.p. gain).
Other than the above, we offer 3.0 stuff for all of those who are lucky enough to have a trouble-free engine and want to squeeze out a couple more ponies!!!

[dstire69]

For what it's worth, my 22r has 230,000 on it and all I have replaced in the 140,000 that I have owned it is a thermostat and valve cover gasket. In addition to regular servicing and tune-ups anyway. She runs like a champ too, quiet and smooth running, and not the worst I've ever had on fuel.

[Tigerstripe40]

I've done alot of research on the 3VZ-E motor (not to be confused with the similar 3VZ-FE motor).

The 3VZ-E motor was designed in a day and age when a material called asbestos was the material of choice for head gaskets, brake and clutch linings and lots of other automotive stuff.

However. When the 3VZ-E motor was introduced to the US, Asbestos has been banned because of certain health problems associated with it. Toyota scrambled to come up with a suitable alternative. This alternative head gasket is the reason the 3VZ-E had head gasket issues.

The cylinder wall and water jacket thickness at the number 1 and number 6 cylinder is VERY thin. When an asbestos head gasket was used, this wasn't a problem, however these newer materials aren't able to really cope with the forces, and heat that they are subjected to in the motor caused these gaskets to blow.

What you can do about it:

The machine shop that did the machining of the block had done A BUNCH Of these blocks for the various toyota dealerships. They were able to weld in extra material on the outside of the number 1 and number 6 cylinder walls, as well as extra material onto the water jacket. Then they machined the whole block to make it all flat. This gave a wider area for the head gasket to seal to and will resolve the problem. This added $300 to the cost of my motor rebuild.

There is another problem with the exhaust valve in the number 6 cylinder burning up because the exhaust gases from the passengers side is dumped into the exhaust manifold on the drivers side right at the number 6 cylinder exhaust valve.

An easy way to solve this is to run an exhaust header.

In the end, I would say get a 3.0 V6 and drive the snot out of it.
In the mean time, save up the money for a 3.4 conversion for when the 3.0 dies.

FWIW, after all the problems and headaches associated wth my 3.0 rebuild, I REALLY REALLY wish I would have just done the 3.4.

[pappy]

I've owned my 85 4Runner since 1988. I absolutely love my 22re. I've also owned a 1982 Hilux with the 22R, a 1985 xcab with the 22RE, and a Tacoma with the 2.7L. All excellent engines. If for some reason I wanted to do something different with the 4Runner I would consider a 3RZ swap. Sorry, I like the simplicity of the 4 cyl. Now, on to comments.

Originally Posted by Hilux

LOL I'm with you no this one, its just too damn tiring to defend that motor. Its the 3fe of 80's tech,

Originally Posted by ms018kmf

Excellent analogy, it is the 3fe of 80's tech. I did hate my 3fe.

Originally Posted by Jukelemon

The 22re's have very few issues in my opinion/experience and timing chains are a maint item and really should not be considered an "issue".

So I ask the 3VZE folks. How many timing belts has your V6 taken? You boys have balls to complain about the R-series chain. Give me a break. My 4Runner went over 200K on the factory chain guides. I currently have about 80K on a fresh DOA engine with the steel guides. Do you think I'm worried about the chain? NOT! And, doesn't that belt have a service intervial of something like 60K? Ummmm.

I'll take a 22RE over a 3.slow any day. Now the 3.4L is another story. That is also a fine engine. But I still hate timing belts.

Oh, I've never had a head gasket issue with about 350K miles between my two 22re, and 150K on the 22R.

[ms018kmf]

Originally Posted by Downey

The original 1988, and possibly 1989 3.0's were a poor block design, barely enough meat in the casting to hold the crank in place. Most engine rebuilders would not attempt to rebuild one of those early blocks.
Yes, head gasket issues were (past tense) a bitch. One of mine had 3 head gasket jobs.
To me, the biggest issue is that Toyota gave those engines 150 h.p., put 100 of it where you get to use it every day, then put the other 50 up at 4500 r.p.m. Headers give an 11 h.p. gain, but leave the other 50 ponies upstairs. Headers with 2.5" exhaust gives a 14 h.p. gain, and brings the 50 h.p. down where you get to use it every day (i.e. feels like a 50 h.p. gain).
Other than the above, we offer 3.0 stuff for all of those who are lucky enough to have a trouble-free engine and want to squeeze out a couple more ponies!!!

Totally dude, factory power is way overrated on paper. The motor will never want to breathe upstairs. I've been looking at the headers for a while, I like how they clean things up in there.

Originally Posted by pappy

So I ask the 3VZE folks. How many timing belts has your V6 taken? You boys have balls to complain about the R-series chain. Give me a break.

Whoa there cowboy, I ain't been knockin your chain.

I think a PO did a belt in mine around 80k. I'm at 173k now and it's doing well. I don't see what's so tough about changing the timing belt when it's time. It's easy to get to and things won't pop if my timing is off. I come from a world of interference engines (they do pop) crammed sideways in tiny cars so I'm biased in respect to what's "difficult". I'm sure changing a chain is slick and fast on a 22 by comparison, I can't argue about having ample room to work quicker.

Now everybody needs to chill out, eat some groovy pills, and go out to the woods or something.

[pappy]

Originally Posted by ms018kmf

Whoa there cowboy, I ain't been jerkin' your chain.

Fixed it for ya.

[ms018kmf]

Sweet, .

[fortysixandtwo]

Originally Posted by Jetboy

I've had quite a few mini trucks. a couple 20rs, a 22r, 22re, 3.slow, and a 3.4l. The 3.4 is by far the best of the group as far as both reliability and power goes in my opinion, but that doesn't seem to be an option for the vehicles you're looking at. For wheeling, I'd go with the 22re. The 3.0 v6 is a much better engine for cruising down the highway at 75-80mph. It really does that well. For a daily driver I think you'd want the extra power. They do have head gasket issues. The cure: replace them. It doesn't seem to be a design problem, but rather something in the manufacturing that had issues. I have not heard of many that have had head gaskets replaced having problems. My 89 never had a problem. It always ran great.
For teh wheeling, I think the 22r is a good little motor. It's got decent torque at low rpms, is fairly fuel efficient, especially at trail speeds. I've never gotten better mileage from any 4cyl on the highway than i got from either of my v6s. I have not owned a 2.7 4cyl however. Anyway, under 50mph or so where you're not overworking the little engine they seem to do great. On the highway at speed I think they are just out of their efficiency range. The 4cyl's I've had would keep up with traffic most of the time, but there certainly wasn't power to spare. The 20r engines with 4speeds were better on the highway than the 22r's with 5 speeds. Not sure why, but I've tested them side by side many times with friends and the 20rs were always faster. That may also have been partially due to the first gen trucks being a little lighter I'm not sure.
On the trail the 22r or re does great. I think they are a fantastic motor for that purpose. The only issue I had were clutch problems as the clutch is small and can overheat. The solution for that is gearing. Dual cases and low diff gears are a must. For a budget crawler, I'd go transfercases first before axle gearing, but if you want to drive on the highway much I think you'll need both. Just the axles with 5.29's is not low enough for most crawling work. You will burn through clutches like crazy. Trust me, I did it.
I would not try to get much out of performance upgrades. My last minitruck was an 84 and I had the engine bored and rebuilt with mid-high end parts with a cam and the typical stuff. Anyway it would rev on up to around 8k rpms. Never had a internal failure, but what good does that do you on the trail? none. For the money you would be better off to buy gearing or replace with 3.4.

Those are my opinions. As you said, you plan on longer highway trips. I think you would be happier with the v6 and replace the headgasket. Or find a high mileage 3rd gen 4runner with a 3.4. I just don't think you will like the highway with a 4cyl 4runner. Take them for what you will.

X2

Couldnt have said it better.