85 4runner manifold glows

[jhnLennon]

got an 85 4runner that i just did a head gasket and timing chain job on.problem is that after 15 min. of driving or so the manifold glows red(you can only notice that at night though).Timing is 5 deg. with connector shorted,new exhaust including the cat.,new o2 sensor.Motor seems to run good with right amount of power. Is this normal?

[Jonathan_Ferguson]

Pics :shotts:

[jhnLennon]

have to wait untill I drive it next at night time

[PurpleFJ62]

which manifold glows, the exhaust manifold? Gotta see a picture of this...

[cruiser88]

restriction, gotz to be a cat

[jhnLennon]

exhaust manifold,thought it was the cat too,thats why I put a new one on,did the same thing.timing seems too be on (5 deg. after tdc with connector shorted)maybe timing is to far retarded?I know I have a leaking injector because when i let it sit for a while pressure drops a little.could this be the problem?

[cruiser88]

Originally Posted by jhnLennon

exhaust manifold,thought it was the cat too,thats why I put a new one on,did the same thing.timing seems too be on (5 deg. after tdc with connector shorted)maybe timing is to far retarded?I know I have a leaking injector because when i let it sit for a while pressure drops a little.could this be the problem?

man honestly i am stumped if its not the catpm wristy on this you have my going to, if its not the cat the only option left would be the fuel/timing

[Trevor]

That's hot! I wanna see pictures, too. Is your EGR hooked up?

[Gumby]

Dumping fuel?

[jhnLennon]

egr hooked up and functioning,injectors leak a little,but if it was dumping that much fuel you would think that would give driveability problems.The thing runs great with plenty of power(well it is a 22r not exactly the most powerful motor).Maybe cam timing?The marks line up but without degreeing the cam you can't really tell for sure.This truck is really frustrating me it has been nothing but trouble since day one!!!!!

[cruiser88]

Originally Posted by jhnLennon

egr hooked up and functioning,injectors leak a little,but if it was dumping that much fuel you would think that would give driveability problems.The thing runs great with plenty of power(well it is a 22r not exactly the most powerful motor).Maybe cam timing?The marks line up but without degreeing the cam you can't really tell for sure.This truck is really frustrating me it has been nothing but trouble since day one!!!!!

truck does not overheat right if not i cant really see timing being a issue(advanced), but then again. have you ever pulled the exhaust and seen if it still gets red hot

[jhnLennon]

yep pulled old cat off and hollowed it out same thing the rest off the exhaust is off the shelf new,advanced timing woulding do it because the knock sensor would just retard it.Too far retarded timing would do it though,which is what i though but the thing is advancing to at least 28-30 degs when you rev it.When you drive it for more than a few min. the manifold will turn cherry red(although the rest of the exhaust seems fine)

[r0nin89]

If its not the cat the only other thing I could guess at is that your manifold it trapping heat somewhere. How that could be I dont know possibly a bad buildup inside the manifold. Get a header and throw it on and see if it still does it.

[WristPin]

the leaking injector is causing fuel to be introduced at the wrong time. like on the exhaust stroke. so as the exhaust temp heats up the manifold, and the temperature reaches above 495 degrees F, the unspent fuel is igniting.
this is a big problem, not only are you risking the potential of burning valves, but you are poluting a lot more.
what you need to do is fix the leaking injector.

the easiest way ( at least for me ) is to remove the intake manifold with every thing attached minus the EGR valve, coolant hoses and most vacuum hoses, prop it it on the valve cover so you can see the injectors. then, with the ignition on, open the Air filter box, and open the gate of the AFM with your finger.

that will kick on the fuel pump, and the leaking injector will revel itself.

[WristPin]

Originally Posted by cruiser88

restriction, gotz to be a cat

besides tearing the cat out,

the best way to check for any clog in the exhaust system is to hook a vacuum gauge up to the intake manifold.

the engine should have 17-22 in Hg at any given speed. ( after the spped is held constant for a moment)

monitoring the gauge, if the needle drops this indicates a clogged exhaust. ( but at ther same time can indicate carb, tappet misadjustment, sticky valve or misfiring plug) but for the sake of this measurment, we would only concintrate on the one aspect.

[cruiser88]

Originally Posted by WristPin

besides tearing the cat out,

the best way to check for any clog in the exhaust system is to hook a vacuum gauge up to the intake manifold.

the engine should have 17-22 in Hg at any given speed. ( after the spped is held constant for a moment)

monitoring the gauge, if the needle drops this indicates a clogged exhaust. ( but at ther same time can indicate carb, tappet misadjustment, sticky valve or misfiring plug) but for the sake of this measurment, we would only concintrate on the one aspect.

damitthat makes sence

[jhnLennon]

21 in HG vacuum,no exhaust restriction,hooked up fuel pressure tester and lost pressure after about 15 min.If the injector is leaking it is very slow(i am thinking that it is the check valve in the fuel pump now)I am starting to think that it is running lean under load condition.At idle the voltage reading off the O2 sensor fluctuates from 1 volt to .2 volts consistantly so I know the system is working properly at idle but that doesn't mean I am not lean under load.Besides a leaking injector doesnt really hold up to me because bosch CIS(constant injection) cars constantly inject fuel throughout the revolution cycle and my volvo never heats up the exhaust.Besides I would have to be dumping a lot of fuel into the exhaust cycle for that to happen causing drivability problems, and it would also throw off my O2 sensor than at least I think.I am going to buy an air/fuel ratio meter and hook it up and see what happens.Back to driving my trusty VOLVO again.

[WristPin]

monitor the fuel pressure.
dis connect the hose on the fuel pressure regulator.

does the pressure change?

verify vacuum at the hose. it will only be there under certian conditions.

reroute the hose to known vacuumm. connect and sisconect it from the fuel pressure regulator.
monitor for changes.

if it changes with each motion, it is working properly, if not, you need a new one.

[WristPin]

Originally Posted by jhnLennon

21 in HG vacuum,no exhaust restriction,hooked up fuel pressure tester and lost pressure after about 15 min.If the injector is leaking it is very slow(i am thinking that it is the check valve in the fuel pump now)I am starting to think that it is running lean under load condition.At idle the voltage reading off the O2 sensor fluctuates from 1 volt to .2 volts consistantly so I know the system is working properly at idle but that doesn't mean I am not lean under load.Besides a leaking injector doesnt really hold up to me because bosch CIS(constant injection) cars constantly inject fuel throughout the revolution cycle and my volvo never heats up the exhaust.Besides I would have to be dumping a lot of fuel into the exhaust cycle for that to happen causing drivability problems, and it would also throw off my O2 sensor than at least I think.I am going to buy an air/fuel ratio meter and hook it up and see what happens.Back to driving my trusty VOLVO again.

i was not sure about what type of injection system a 22RE uses. so i asked a reputable Toyota certified Foreman. he says that the engine does not use CIS. and that it does use MPI. also that the injectors are not made by bosch, but are bosch style.
according to your O2 results, it is within proper operating perameters. but tell me if it fluctuates 8 or more in 10 seconds. if it does, then good.

the second place to look is the valve adjustments. accoring to the foreman, not only can a leaking injector cause this but a too lean or too rich condition can cause this.

incorrct valve clearances can cause either or.

also spec out your coolant temp sensor and you air intake tempo sensor. (housed in the AFM)
if you do not have values, i will scan them for you.


back to the CIS/MPI thing, part of your description resembles my FSM description, maybe this is where you got it wrong

"Each injector inject at the same time, one half of the fuel required for ideal combustion with each engine revolution"

now just from analizing this statment is sounds like that is what would be considered CIS, but again accoring to this foreman, it is in fact MPI

[jhnLennon]

I know that the toyota system is different than cis. Toyota system resembles bosch Lh jetronic. cis is used by volvo vw porsche etc. What i am tring to say is that cis equipted cars inject fuel throughout the engine cycle,they never stop injecting fuel untill engine vacuum stops I.E. the motor stops. So why would a leaking injector on a mpfi system cause this condition it would literally have to pour gas done the cylinder to get it to burn in the exhaust. The funny thing is I took a friends 99 jeep cherokee out last night and the manifold was somewhat glowing too after a 10 mile drive. Than I took my dad's 2000 dakota out last night and that was glowing a little bit too. Now it wasnt as bad as my toyota but niether have a 4 inch lift and 33 inch tires either.I am beginning to think this is normal.Like I said the only way you can notice this is too take it out at night warm it up good, stop and turn off the lights then you will see it.Then for curiosity sake I called up my local wood stove dealership that sells cast iron jotel wood stoves and asked him how hot you would have to get the stove to get it to glow,he said around 800 to 900 degrees in a dark room(which is way to hot for a wood stove by the way). now I think 800 degree egts are quite normal No?